Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 68

Thread: Early Magma thread

  1. #1

    Early Magma thread

    Hey I thought it would be nice to discuss early Magma - pre MDK
    As with many bands these earlier efforts were a product of a band that was searching exploring a most exciting fresh path
    I find these times of Magma were Much like early Soft Machine ,The Mothers of Invention , The Magic Band
    So before the dictatorship this was a real band effort - right ?
    Just looking at these early clips



    And the 2 albums are some of my favorite early 70's

  2. #2
    I think "dicatorship" is much too strong a word - and doesn't square with what most Magma musicians have had to say about Vander (as opposed to what some are inclined to believe he's like based on various other factors). It was just a rational evolution - no-one, except Janick Top, had a musical vision to match that of Vander, and this is why he became the sole composer, rather any decision to refuse any material from other members. Early Magma was idealistic in this respect, and also they needed more material than Vander was able to provide to fill up a double-album. With Faton and Teddy Lasry gone, Vander was left as the sole composer, and the man with the musical vision which eventually produced "Kohntarkosz" - hard to match !
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    I think "dicatorship" is much too strong a word - and doesn't square with what most Magma musicians have had to say about Vander (as opposed to what some are inclined to believe he's like based on various other factors). It was just a rational evolution - no-one, except Janick Top, had a musical vision to match that of Vander, and this is why he became the sole composer, rather any decision to refuse any material from other members. Early Magma was idealistic in this respect, and also they needed more material than Vander was able to provide to fill up a double-album. With Faton and Teddy Lasry gone, Vander was left as the sole composer, and the man with the musical vision which eventually produced "Kohntarkosz" - hard to match !
    Dunno there were so many gifted musicans passing through Magma and except for Top there is almost nothing other then Vander compositions
    I was so pleasantly surprised by Floe Essi composed by Bubu and always lament the fact there was no follow up - that sounded fresh and intresting
    A close friend who saw them in the 70's swore he would never listen to them again after seeing Vander get up in the middle of the show and slap one of the female singers
    So dictatorship is strong indeed
    But hey this thread is about celebrating their baby steps

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Dunno there were so many gifted musicans passing through Magma and except for Top there is almost nothing other then Vander compositions.
    Perhaps a great instrumentalist doesn't necessarily make a great, visionary composer. All of these guys went on to make albums of their own, many of them good, but few if any of them offering much more than, at best, an interesting alternative angle on the Zeuhl idiom.
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    A close friend who saw them in the 70's swore he would never listen to them again after seeing Vander get up in the middle of the show and slap one of the female singers.
    This is hardly the kind of behaviour one is inclined to approve of or even excuse, but being on the road has its extreme moments, with episodes no one feels particularly proud about, especially if non-musical relationships make things even more complicated (do we know anything about the background to this particular incident ?). Unless you tell me that Vander did this on a regular basis, I am not yet about to put him in the same bag as, say, Ike Turner. Or use this isolated anecdote as a basis to argue that Vander was or has a dictatorial behaviour towards the members of Magma in general - which, again, isn't my impression at all based on feedback from many of them.
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  6. #6
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    in a cosmic jazzy-groove around Brussels
    Posts
    6,091
    Is Vander anymore a dictator than Jagger or Fripp?

    The Kobaia debut album is still my fave....
    and TBH, past Köhntarkösz, I tend to find much less interest, because the band has been treading four almost 50 years the same old beaten path it created for itself
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  7. #7
    Member Mascodagama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    7th Circle of Brexit
    Posts
    2,150
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    Perhaps a great instrumentalist doesn't necessarily make a great, visionary composer. All of these guys went on to make albums of their own, many of them good, but few if any of them offering much more than, at best, an interesting alternative angle on the Zeuhl idiom.
    I would put Yochk'o Seffer in the visionary composer category at his best, though this has been better demonstrated in his solo work than in most of Zao, IMO.
    “your ognna pay pay with my wrath of ballbat”

    Bandcamp Profile

  8. #8
    The Univeria Zekt record where Vander composed only half of the tracks gives an idea of a more democratic Magma sound. But then Vanders compositions are the most interesting.
    Zappa was very strict in terms what a musician could do or not while getting paid by him.

    Envoyé de mon GT-I9195 en utilisant Tapatalk
    Dieter Moebius : "Art people like things they don’t understand!"

  9. #9
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    7,264
    I dont own the first Magma album, but almost everything else.
    This reflects two things, I am not a collector and I dont find it particularily interesting. Its not that I find their early stuff bad, just kind of not stepped into character.
    I way prefer the version of Kobah from Hhai (live), and find it dissapointing that they dont play this version anymore. I have the Univeria sekt album, and its historically interesting and there are some great drumming, but for me the interesting compositions starts with 1001 centigrades.

    Slapping a band member on stage, off stage, is of course way out of line, but we dont know the circumstances or how thet delt with it afterwards. In rock'n roll, especially english bands - think The Who - shit happens.

  10. #10
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Nothern Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,022
    I prefer the first album to 1001 myself. Perhaps it doesn't have much of a significant place in the Magma catalog, but it does for Prog circa 1970 imo.

    I'm not big on the UZ album. It's okay, but nothing others weren't doing better (admittedly it's been many years since I have last heard).

    Not mentioned yet was the 1971 Brussels concert, which isn't the greatest quality, but you get to hear MK as part of the show.

    http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=3321
    WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.

  11. #11
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    8,193
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Hey I thought it would be nice to discuss early Magma - pre MDK
    As with many bands these earlier efforts were a product of a band that was searching exploring a most exciting fresh path
    I find these times of Magma were Much like early Soft Machine ,The Mothers of Invention , The Magic Band
    So before the dictatorship this was a real band effort - right ?
    Just looking at these early clips
    This will be a nice incentive to go back and check out these early albums again, although I have always enjoyed them. But to be honest, I usually go for the "normal" Magma albums (hehe hoho huhu) when the Darth Vander bug bites. Shit, I have a ginormous list of things to listen to right now.
    If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.

    "And it's only the giving
    That makes you what you are" - Ian Anderson

  12. #12
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Fluffy Cloud
    Posts
    5,635
    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    Not mentioned yet was the 1971 Brussels concert, which isn't the greatest quality, but you get to hear MK as part of the show.
    For a non professional 1971 recording (radio? board? audience? unclear) after the 1st couple of songs, I think it's extremely listenable and it's also a really good performance.

    I like it muchly.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    Not mentioned yet was the 1971 Brussels concert, which isn't the greatest quality, but you get to hear MK as part of the show.
    I remember discussing this performance when I interviewed Francis Moze, and he had a fun story. Apparently the dressing room was a very long walk away from the stage, and when he arrived on stage, he realised he'd left his regular bass in the dressing room and there was no time left to go back and fetch it, so he had to play the whole gig with his fretless which he would normally use for just a small portion of the show. He remembered doing OK under the circumstances, but a challenge.
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  14. #14

  15. #15

  16. #16
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    7,264
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    I remember discussing this performance when I interviewed Francis Moze, and he had a fun story. Apparently the dressing room was a very long walk away from the stage, and when he arrived on stage, he realised he'd left his regular bass in the dressing room and there was no time left to go back and fetch it, so he had to play the whole gig with his fretless which he would normally use for just a small portion of the show. He remembered doing OK under the circumstances, but a challenge.
    He has played fretless as long as I can remember... perhaps this was the start.

  17. #17

  18. #18
    I'll take 1 and 2 over 3 and 4, any day.

    And if I want the stuff on 3 or 4, I'll play Hai/Live.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post


    what about this one ?
    Written by Teddy Lasry, nice flute athmo, sounds like Camel, only the Vander compostions on this record are interesting IMO
    Dieter Moebius : "Art people like things they don’t understand!"

  20. #20
    Member mellotron storm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wasaga Beach
    Posts
    316
    Laurent Thibault was the original bassist or at least one of the early ones but left before that first album was recorded. He created his own label and it was him who came up with the idea of Universia Zect, getting his former mates on his label at least with one album. I can't say that album does much for me though. I prefer Laurent's wife's debut to it by a lot, completely different beast of course. And Laurent's solo album is a masterpiece as far as I'm concerned.
    "The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
    Sad Rain
    Anekdoten

  21. #21
    Member Mascodagama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    7th Circle of Brexit
    Posts
    2,150
    Quote Originally Posted by mellotron storm View Post
    Laurent Thibault was the original bassist or at least one of the early ones but left before that first album was recorded. He created his own label and it was him who came up with the idea of Universia Zect, getting his former mates on his label at least with one album. I can't say that album does much for me though. I prefer Laurent's wife's debut to it by a lot, completely different beast of course. And Laurent's solo album is a masterpiece as far as I'm concerned.
    +1 to all that. And the other 'Laurence Vanay' recordings are also worthwhile. The Zekt never grabbed me.
    “your ognna pay pay with my wrath of ballbat”

    Bandcamp Profile

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    I way prefer the version of Kobah from Hhai (live), and find it dissapointing that they dont play this version anymore.
    I like both versions, they each show a different personality. The Live version for sure is funkier, but the original recording has a certain je ne sais quoi about it that appeals to me. That whole first album is one of my top 3 Magmas (alongside MDK and Attahk; I know, odd faves to have, but there you go); it took forever to click with me as it’s so harsh and forbidding, even for them. But I think the vision of this alien music was never as undiluted as there.

    1001° Centigrades has never appealed to me, though. “Riah Sahiltaahk” (or however you spell it) just kind of keeps on going, and apart from some interesting growling from Blasquiz, the B-side stuff from Faton & Co. never did much for me either. It’s the one album in their discography (other than Merci) I feel confident in skipping.I thought Faton showed a lot more of interest with Zao.
    Confirmed Bachelors: the dramedy hit of 1883...

  23. #23
    Member nosebone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Stamford, Ct.
    Posts
    1,528
    The debut and 1001° Centigrades are my favorite Magmas.

    I have to be in the right head for the Klingon opera assaults that came later.

    Although that's great stuff live!
    no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone

  24. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Belo Horizonte / Brazil
    Posts
    642
    I'm a huge fan of “1001 Degrees Centigrades”. It is usually among my three favorite Magma albums, although this hypothetical list varies from times to times, depending on my mood. I also really enjoyed the re-recorded version of Rïah Sahïltaahk. It is probably less edgy than its original recording, but I think it is pretty nice to have it with different instrumentation (vibes instead of the brass section, for example). The non-Vander tracks on 1001 are also excellent on my book.

    I also enjoy their first album, but there are many tracks that I really don’t care for. As a result, I don’t listen to it very often.

    In any case, I consider both Kobaia and 1001 truly groundbreaking albums. Honestly, I’m unaware of anyone trying something similar at the time. And then the band reinvented themselves to produce another pair of groundbreaking albums with “Wurdah Itah” and “Mekanik”, and then once again to produce “Kohntarkosz” (their absolute masterpiece IMHO) and what was later released as “KA” and “Ementeht-Re” (both GREAT albums, at least for me).

    Regarding Uniweria Zekt, I think it is an interesting footnote, not much than that. The live at Brussels CD is pretty good, despite the shaky sound quality.

    Overall, while I value the contributions of the other band members in Magma’s first couple of albums, I think Vander has always been the main compositional force behind the band, the one responsible for the some of the most impressive musical statements in the seventies.

  25. #25
    " You can hear their roots in Soft Machine-style jazz/rock and even some traces (good traces too) of influences from 'horn-rock' like Chicago!"
    Steve F.
    I wonder if Vander and Co were aware of The Mothers , Soft Machine ,Beefheart etc.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •