AAJ Review: King Crimson At Salle Wilfrid-Pelletier / Massey Hall

[boilk]

But that behavior is not considered REASONABLE by community standards, and Fripp's likewise is not in 2017. It violates community standards of acceptable concert behavior, as I've already proven.

Proven? Rubbish. Not quite 2017, but still 2013 and 2014, articles on bands, who..gasp...aren't even prog, who didn't allow photos taken at their shows. And these list do not include Steven Wilson, Tool and Tori Amos, who also don't allow it, just to name a few. As long as the laws of the venues support the stopping of photos being taken at shows, then it is quite reasonable, if that is what the artist wants.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/photog...do-it-for-you/

http://fasterlouder.junkee.com/10-ba...-as-you/835315

neil

[boilk]

And a great review, BTW Jkelman. I was at the Toronto show, and thought that Tony Levin's was superb. His tone, fills and parts were impeccable throughout the night. Honestly, I don't think that I've ever heard him play better. And the set list, was simply amazing, for me. Never thought that I'd get the chance to hear Fallen Angel live. Incredible night.

neil

[jkelman]

And a great review, BTW Jkelman. I was at the Toronto show, and thought that Tony Levin's was superb. His tone, fills and parts were impeccable throughout the night. Honestly, I don't think that I've ever heard him play better. And the set list, was simply amazing, for me. Never thought that I'd get the chance to hear Fallen Angel live. Incredible night.
neil

First, thanks for the kind words, Neil. And I hope you understand that my griping about noisy audiences ignoring artists' expressed wishes was not aimed in any way close to the majority. But I was somewhat disturbed to find a larger number (maybe it was where I was sitting) of people who fell into that category. There were clearly plenty (the majority) of people - like myself and, clearly yourself - who were there for the same reasons.

And I meant it when I said the Toronto show beat out Montreal by a hair. And yes, Tony was a particular marvel, and I've seen him enough times, as I suspect you have, to know. Beyond soloists, this is a band that interprets each and every night. Yes, Tony plays that massive riff in "Starless"; but he also takes great liberties with it while, at the same time, ensuring its place as a signature to that tune was respected. That's why I simply cannot see just one show on a tour. If at all possible, I've gotta see two...and believe me, having had my three year-old medical issue finally and recently been given that "diagnosis by elimination," Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (or, as now called...wait for it...Systemic Exertion Intolerance Disease), I am still paying for the decision not to come home after Montreal, and to go onto Toronto instead.

I'm flattened (especially after writing the review and having to do a heart stress test yesterday!!), but would I do it again?

In a heartbeat.

Cheers!
John

[Duncan Glenday]

The intent was not to open up a debate about it. The intent was to observe that a large portion space to an otherwise interesting review was allocated to something that hardly anybody other than yourself will be interested in reading. Such matters would ideally be put at the end of the review.

You just don't get it, do you? Show me where I said that Fripp didn't have the right to ask for what he's asking for. Of course he has a right. Just like the angry lunatic who sits on his porch waiting for kids to walk by and graze a blade of the grass on his lawn has a right to yell at them to stay off it.

But that behavior is not considered REASONABLE by community standards, and Fripp's likewise is not in 2017. It violates community standards of acceptable concert behavior, as I've already proven.

But I'm not saying that Fripp doesn't have the right to do what he's doing. He does - I'm just saying that it ignoring it is no big deal. As long as pictures are being taken or video recorded that is not blocking the view of an adjacent concert-goer, then there is no problem. I've got more important things to worry about than what some old coot with a long history of documented failure at being either reasonable or congenial thinks. I just want to hear him play guitar.

Points made.

Let's move on - there's nothing more to argue about here.

...so how about we get back to the most important thing, which dominated over 90% of the article: the music, the band, the set lists? I hear "Fracture" has crept back into the set.

BLAST!!!

Yep - feel free to discuss OTHER aspects of the KC show, or the review.

[Dave (in MA)]

Read review here…

502 Bad Gateway

nginx

Not your best work, but it's certainly succinct! I'll have to catch it later when the problem is fixed.

[per anporth]

John - thanks for taking the time to write such a thorough review - all the more appreciated given the toll it takes physically.

I have to say, your enthusiasm for these shows, & for this incarnation of the Crims, really leaps off the (virtual) page. I'm all the more frustrated now that I wasn't able to catch them on their last European tour.

I think the point you're making about how these lineups are freeing the band to *interpret* the KC catalogue is fascinating.

[jkelman]

Not your best work, but it's certainly succinct! I'll have to catch it later when the problem is fixed.

You're a funny guy, Dave...as I've said before. You should be able to get at it now, seems to be working this morning...

Cheers!
John

[Polska]

Fantastic review! I was fortunate to be able to see them a few weeks ago in Rochester NY and have to say it may have been the best Crim lineup I've seen live. As you've said, this band can cover anything in the catalog, and they don't just cover it, they reinterpret it. Amazing performance.

From what I saw in Rochester, the audience was very into it and very respectful. Almost treated like a classical orchestra while they were playing. You truly felt that the people there wanted to be there (to paraphrase Fripp) to "watch the concert with their own eyes and listen with their ears and be in the moment". I couldn't agree more. Contrast that with the Tool concert I saw 2 months ago and if I had to do it again I would have skipped that experience. You've already covered all that though.

I hear they are adding some more dates and if they come around close enough I certainly will spring for it again. Not to be missed if you can help it.

Again - thanks for yet another very detailed and insightful review. Always look forward to your writing.

[jkelman]

Yep - feel free to discuss OTHER aspects of the KC show, or the review.

Thanks, Duncan...for your patience and understanding. Again I apologize; I shouldn't have allowed my buttons to be pushed, but I put a lot of time and energy into what I write and, while I've generally no problem with criticism (and truly appreciate constructive criticism, welcome disagreement as the catalyst for debate... and also those who, in a friendly/respectful way, catch the occasional typos or factoids that slip through), I truly didn't appreciate the ad hominem attack in his first post.

Still, I let my temper get the best of me (I'm still beyond exhausted; this CFS is a bitch, though that's still no excuse), and I should have simply ignored it.

So, from me at least, mea culpa.. And again, thanks. Moderation is not always a pleasant job (as I know from being a moderator at the sadly defunct AAJ forum ); so I'm sorry to have made yours just that little bit worse.

Cheers!

[jkelman]

John - thanks for taking the time to write suck a thorough review - all the more appreciated given the toll it takes physically.

I have to say, your enthusiasm for these shows, & for this incarnation of the Crims, really leaps off the (virtual) page. I'm all the more frustrated now that I wasn't able to catch them on their last European tour.

I think the point you're making about how these lineups are freeing the band to *interpret* the KC catalogue is fascinating.

As ever, Per, thanks for your kind and supportive words.

Yeah, writing has become so much more difficult since I became ill. Funny story: when I first began getting sick and my output began to drop substantially, AAJ founder/publisher Michael Ricci suggested, "why don't you write shorter articles?" Good point, I guess, but for better or worse, my reply was "it's what I do (thanks, Ray!) and whatever readership I've managed to build, I think it's what they come to expect." Based on the numbers, that appears to be true...

So, I may write fewer articles these days (one/week is the norm, instead of the 5-7+ of my better days), but I want them to be what I'd have done before I became informed. I sure they are....

So, thanks again; always lovely to hear from you and thanks for the encouragement,
Cheers!
John

[jkelman]

Fantastic review! I was fortunate to be able to see them a few weeks ago in Rochester NY and have to say it may have been the best Crim lineup I've seen live. As you've said, this band can cover anything in the catalog, and they don't just cover it, they reinterpret it. Amazing performance.

From what I saw in Rochester, the audience was very into it and very respectful. Almost treated like a classical orchestra while they were playing. You truly felt that the people there wanted to be there (to paraphrase Fripp) to "watch the concert with their own eyes and listen with their ears and be in the moment". I couldn't agree more. Contrast that with the Tool concert I saw 2 months ago and if I had to do it again I would have skipped that experience. You've already covered all that though.

I hear they are adding some more dates and if they come around close enough I certainly will spring for it again. Not to be missed if you can help it.

Again - thanks for yet another very detailed and insightful review. Always look forward to your writing.

And thank you for such kind words...and for your own experience; shame Rochester demanded an abbreviated set...IMHO, they could have done what Montreal did to deal with the same issue by simply starting earlier. Still, by your account and others I've read elsewhere, shorter it may have been, but they still delivered a cracking show.

Many thanks, again...
Cheers!

[jkelman]

Not intending to reopen yesterday's discussion, and hope, Duncan, you see this as such, but Jakko Jakszyk was nice enough to take the time to write me about the review. He really has been a kind and generous guy, I must tell you.

But, more to the point - and something I should have written in my criticism of the behaviour of some members of the audience - is this, which he wrote and kindly offered to me to quote. I do think it's important enough to be worth noting that this problem can - and certainly in some instances does (Jakko is far from the first musician who has told me this) - palpably and directly impact performance:

If we're up there and we can see someone filming us, it makes a difference to how we play.

It might make us play safe and compromise our choices, or make us more nervous, knowing that before the night is out it will be on YouTube with shit sound, and with trollers pointing out inadequacies.

So the idea that it doesn't effect the performance and spoil the experience for everyone else is nonsense.

It does just that - regardless of whether [or not] there's a camera blocking an audience view.

Again, I'd rather not use this to open up more debate/argument when I really would prefer we talk about the shows and the music. But I felt a few words from the band would be germane to yesterday's heated exchange.

And I'm still pissed that I didn't get to hear "Fracture" !!!
Cheers,
John

[per anporth]

Just to follow up John's point, quoting Jakko - although I'm not a musical performer, I regularly communicate from a stage with audiences of up to 250 or more - & I can confirm that it just is distracting when people are chattering, or texting, or snapchatting, or filming. I find that it causes me to lose the focus I have for what & how I'm trying to convey. I think people who do this in audiences are under the mistaken apprehension that they are somehow "invisible" - but, as Jakko says, onstage, you *notice*, & this noticing has an effect.

Hope this doesn't fall foul of Duncan's moderate comments above!!

[jamesmanzi]

But I felt a few words from the band would be germane to yesterday's heated exchange.

Unfortunately these words come a day late, now that Facelift has won the debate, using the infallible method of telling us he's right and we're wrong.

Sorry Duncan, I'll drop it now.

[Spiral]

Pity about missing "Fracture" (it's one of the only old tunes I'm happy to see in the current set), but from what I've been reading, it's too demanding for the guitarists to tackle every night. They apparently need to space out the occurrences and work up to it. I recall similar discussions when TCoL was new and the band played "FraKctured" almost every night. RF compared it to an Evel Knievel-style stunt jump over a canyon and said that recording & photography were the equivalent of spilling grease on the ramp.

But regardless of the audience, it's not surprising this one would be a special challenge to play over a decade and a half later. It'd be a minefield for players half their ages.

[Phlakaton]

You just don't get it, do you? Show me where I said that Fripp didn't have the right to ask for what he's asking for. Of course he has a right. Just like the angry lunatic who sits on his porch waiting for kids to walk by and graze a blade of the grass on his lawn has a right to yell at them to stay off it.

But that behavior is not considered REASONABLE by community standards, and Fripp's likewise is not in 2017. It violates community standards of acceptable concert behavior, as I've already proven.

But I'm not saying that Fripp doesn't have the right to do what he's doing. He does - I'm just saying that it ignoring it is no big deal. As long as pictures are being taken or video recorded that is not blocking the view of an adjacent concert-goer, then there is no problem. I've got more important things to worry about than what some old coot with a long history of documented failure at being either reasonable or congenial thinks. I just want to hear him play guitar.

I personally dont have an issue with what you're saying - I take the occasional photo at shows - with no flash and with no sound of a shutter or whatever these new phones have - I can see an older or seriously pro camera with shutters and flashes and all that crap becoming annoying and yes - dont do that. But the tech now and the ability to keep it under wraps - I'll take a couple. Videos though - not something I like around me - for the obvious reasons already mentioned. Plus - we are arguing from our egos - and pain body - and when something has no effect on me - I dont waste my time getting all upset about it. Anyway - nice review JKelman - its your review and if you want to go and write about this - do it. I dont have to read it. As George Carlin said - There are two nobs on the radio - one turns it off - and the other - changes the station!

[Facelift]

I Anyway - nice review JKelman

Agreed! Seemingly lost in the fray was my comment that I otherwise liked the review, too.

[jkelman]

I personally dont have an issue with what you're saying - I take the occasional photo at shows - with no flash and with no sound of a shutter or whatever these new phones have - I can see an older or seriously pro camera with shutters and flashes and all that crap becoming annoying and yes - dont do that. But the tech now and the ability to keep it under wraps - I'll take a couple. Videos though - not something I like around me - for the obvious reasons already mentioned. Plus - we are arguing from our egos - and pain body - and when something has no effect on me - I dont waste my time getting all upset about it. Anyway - nice review JKelman - its your review and if you want to go and write about this - do it. I dont have to read it. As George Carlin said - There are two nobs on the radio - one turns it off - and the other - changes the station!

You've got that right! And, while I appreciate folks reading my stuff, I also respect if they don't like how I write, what I write or why I write. We all have choices. And if I lose a few readers because of making (heaven forbid) contentious statements, well, I'm committed enough to "the cause" as to figure it's just part of the landscape. You can't make everyone happy; you can try (I certainly do)...but am also fully aware - and was when I wrote those contentious 507 words of a 5,200 word article - that I might annoy some folks off, and even turn them off from reading my stuff.

C'est la vie, yes?

But all that said, as ever, thank you for the kind words about the review...even if we disagree on one small point in an article with a whole heckuva lotta them!
Cheers!
John

[jkelman]

Agreed! Seemingly lost in the fray was my comment that I otherwise liked the review, too.

I didn't miss it. It was just hard to thank someone who accused me of being psychotic. Ya kinda lost me there.

But hey, I'm big enough to say thanks, so thanks for enjoying the 4,700 other words

[arturs]

Fantastic review! I was fortunate to be able to see them a few weeks ago in Rochester NY and have to say it may have been the best Crim lineup I've seen live. As you've said, this band can cover anything in the catalog, and they don't just cover it, they reinterpret it. Amazing performance.

Shit! They actually did play in Rochester??! I saw some postings for the show back in March, but then when I checked several times in June the Rochester date was no longer listed. My one chance to see this lineup, gone...

[jkelman]

Unfortunately these words come a day late,

Actually no, I don't really agree. Irrespective of what some folks might think about what I wrote, I think getting a band member's perspective in here just adds value. I'm not talking about adding value or bolstering what I wrote in my review; only that, at least IMHO, Jakko's perspective carries far more weight than this lowly writer

[jkelman]

Shit! They actually did play in Rochester??! I saw some postings for the show back in March, but then when I checked several times in June the Rochester date was no longer listed. My one chance to see this lineup, gone...

Maybe not; more dates have been added in the fall...