I guess "all the great session cats" should meet all the great Heavy Metal musicians, who would surely argue that Climbing is hard rock and that metal traces first and foremost to Black Sabbath.Originally Posted by arabicadabra
I guess "all the great session cats" should meet all the great Heavy Metal musicians, who would surely argue that Climbing is hard rock and that metal traces first and foremost to Black Sabbath.
Mountain are very much still heavily blues-based. Not heavy metal as the term is now defined, IMHO.
I have exactly one album from the top 25 list in my possession.
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There will be quibbling with any list.
They decided that Led Zeppelin isn't metal. OK...
I don't think that any Ozzy solo albums should be in the top 100, much less the top 10.
I don't think that any Motley Crue should be there.
The Motorhead and Van Halen choices were bad. A Motorhead compilation? And if you're only doing one VH album, why that one?
I personally think that Iron Maiden are not very good and would not put any of their albums in the top 100, but I can understand why many people would. Same with anything Dio is associated with.
No Agalloch? No Cynic? Hmmm.
Cynic is a bit of an obvious miss.
Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/
Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
I blame Wynton, what was the question?
There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.
Agreed.
I think some people equate loud and distorted with somehow being the beginning of Heavy Metal, but it just doesn't work like that. The Who were loud and distorted. As were Cream and Hendrix. Blue Cheer took it up a notch in the studio, and then Led Zeppelin and Mountain, but while all of these bands had an impact on metal, nobody had quite figured out how to distance themselves from this sort of preconceived necessity to trace to the blues and rock 'n' roll. Sabbath had that blues influence on parts of the first album (though even that was unique), but were the first band to have the stones to sort of say: "That's it. Nothing but epics. No blues tunes. No boogie woogie. No covers. No need to justify ourselves by attaching what we do to Chuck Berry or John Lee Hooker or Elvis or whoever. We're using a song like "Black Sabbath" as a template for what we do and we are gone."
Eddie Van Halen said a couple of years ago that Tony Iommi is basically the Mozart of rock, and specifically he mentioned that if you listen to a song like "Into The Void" you basically have rhythmic stuff in there that became the template for how the guitar is now approached.
IMO, the electric guitar's evolution in terms of how metal came to be defined as a subgenre traces back to Black Sabbath and it isn't a close race. My guess is that if you took a poll of influence on 10,000 metal musicians you'd probably have a hard time finding a single one who wouldn't cite Sabbath.
Nearly all "metal" guitar rhythms all trace back to Iommi. Staccato downstrokes, his start-and-stop staccato motifs, his power-chord diads, his very specific development of palm muting, his downtuning, his 3-against-4 rhythmic phrasing ... the list just goes on and on. He's possibly the most influential guitarist ever when it comes to rhythm. Certainly in the Top 10. And as far as metal, it's him by a landslide with nobody within a thousand miles for second.
Last edited by JeffCarney; 07-05-2017 at 06:18 PM.
Of course not. I am just shocked that 50% qualifies as heavy metal.
"Alienated-so alien I go!"
Bob Ezrin insists it was really Wagner.
Yes, there are still hangovers from straight blues-rock on the first Sabbath album...but even then, essentially confined to the two covers on the album. By Paranoid that had gone.
Same here.
same here too
"Alienated-so alien I go!"
I have 9.
Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/
Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
I blame Wynton, what was the question?
There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.
If they'd been Zeppelin they'd have claimed they wrote them.
Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/
Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
I blame Wynton, what was the question?
There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.
I have 12 from that list.
I've got 14, though probably only 5 or 6 are albums that I'd rank in the top 25 myself.
13 from the list. Would've been higher but I parted ways with ...And Justice for All and Too Fast for Love.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
I have 15 of the 25, don't have these 10:
3. Judas Priest, British Steel
6. Slayer, Reign in Blood
7. Motörhead, No Remorse (aka the one wif Ace of Spades)
10. Pantera, Vulgar Display of Power
12. Judas Priest, Screaming for Vengeance
18. Tool, Ænima
20. Anthrax, Among the Living
22. Mötley Crüe, Too Fast for Love
23. Danzig, Danzig
24. Rage Against the Machine, Rage Against the Machine
... of those, I probably should have British Steel, which is a classic IMO. The rest I have no interest in really... heard them all at some point except the Danzig and some of the Tool album.
I love Maiden, but I would never rank the debut that high. Not even close...
Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.
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Here are the top 40 metal studio albums on rateyourmusic.com, (attempting to have the same metal scope as RS used).
The choices of The People:
1. Paranoid - Black Sabbath
2. Master of Puppets - Metallica
3. Master of Reality - Black Sabbath
4. Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath
5. Ride the Lightning - Metallica
6. Reign in Blood - Slayer
7. Rust in Peace - Megadeth
8. Powerslave - Iron Maiden
9. Lateralus - Tool
10. Symbolic - Death
11. Blackwater Park - Opeth
12. Number of the Beast - Iron Maiden
13. Aenima - Tool
14. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath- Black Sabbath
15. Rage Against the Machine - Rage Against the Machine
16. And Justice For All - Metallica
17. Seventh Son of a Seventh Son - Iron Maiden
18. Dirt - Alice In Chains
19. Painkiller - Judas Priest
20. Vol. 4 - Black Sabbath
21. Still Life - Opeth
22. Filosofem - Burzum
23. Rising - Rainbow
24. Human - Death
25. Kill Em All - Metallica
26. Dopethrone - Electric Wizard
27. Angel Dust - Faith No More
28. Seasons in the Abyss - Slayer
29. Panopticon - Isis
30. Ashes Against the Grain - Agalloch
31. The Mantle - Agalloch
32. Iron Maiden - Iron Maiden
33. Heaven and Hell - Black Sabbath
34. The Sound of Perseverance - Death
35. Hvis Lyset Tar Oss - Burzum
36. Crack the Skye - Mastodon
37. Bergtatt: Et Eeventyr I 5 Capitler - Ulver
38. Sad Wings of Destiny - Judas Priest
39. Don't Break the Oath - Mercyful Fate
40. Individual Thought Patterns - Death
Last edited by Facelift; 07-05-2017 at 08:17 PM.
That was my pick on the original RS list - love that album. Progressive metal.
In may cases my thoughts went like this: right bands, wrong albums.
The Prog Corner
Absolutely. All jokes aside about the loin cloth and oiled bodies of the early days, this was great metal. I first heard them on college radio in the early 80's, had no idea what they looked like but the music grabbed me instantly as being head and shoulders over most of the other metal on the station.
Most of the stuff that I would consider for the list, the dweebs at RS probably never heard of. I will give them faint praise for including Exodus, Diamond Head and Anthrax but if they were able to include these second-tier metal bands from the 80's, how do they overlook Manowar? Or Overkill, Raven and Saxon for that matter?
And looks like they wouldn't touch anything remotely hinting at prog-metal, i.e. no Dream Theater or Symphony X. Ah phooey, it's Rolling Stone, typical...
You say Mega Ultra Deluxe Special Limited Edition Extended Autographed 5-LP, 3-CD, 4-DVD, 2-BlueRay, 4-Cassette, five 8-Track, MP4 Download plus Demos, Outtakes, Booklet, T-Shirt and Guitar Pick Gold-Leafed Box Set Version like it's a bad thing...
Montrose (1st Album) = personal fave heavy metal album
other HM albums that get me head banging...
UFO (Phenomenon)
Journey (1st Album)
Paris (1st Album with Robert Welch of FM and Thom Mooney of Nazz)
There's a lot more to agree with here than the original list (except for Painkiller)
I thought about that one - is it heavy metal or is it hard rock. "Rock Candy" was certainly a heavy enough riff but I'm not sure about the rest. A really spectacular debut though.Montrose (1st Album) = personal fave heavy metal album
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
Montrose is hard rock, I think. But hard rock/metal is one of those things where it is hard to define where one ends and the other begins. It's possibly in the lyrics- the gothic and macabre tends to predominate in metal. Hard rock tends to be lyrically earthier...but then you get to the grey area of Kiss/Van Halen and the 80s 'hair metal' bands!
RE; Painkiller. Can't accept that being ahead of all those 1976-80 Priest albums in that second list, those albums were by far their best work IMHO.
The 1st Trettioariga Kriget album trounces most entries on the list and at times appears to have been made with the help of a time machine, (it took at least a decade for other bands to come up with stuff that sounded similar). This one has imagination and chops to burn. Many of the listed bands would benefit greatly from listening to and stealing stuff from this record.
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