Deep Purple - self-titled (third) album

**Trane** · 06-20-2017

From what I understand is that the new artistic direction taken was more of less dictated by Blackmood after Lord's two "classical rock" attempt failed at selling lots. Not so sure Lord was agreeing fully to the new direction. Most likely Paice did.
I mean, he (RB) was at the root of firing Evans and Simper, because he judged the "band's lack of potential" to succeed
And yes, Blackmore more or less knew this new hard rock direction would be much more (massively?) successful, but it's not like it was intended to be "commercial" or a sell-out..

**arturs** · 06-20-2017

^^^ I agree. After Lord's concerto, could anyone really blame Blackmore for wanting to go hard, fast and loud?

**GuitarGeek** · 06-20-2017

Originally Posted by arturs

^^^ I agree. After Lord's concerto, could anyone really blame Blackmore for wanting to go hard, fast and loud?

And you have to admit, that's kind of where the most iconic Deep Purple music happened. I remember about 10 years ago, there was a really good Hewlett Packard commercial, that showed children, playing Smoke On The Water, very tentatively. But they cut it together so that you heard one kid play the first chord, the next kid play the second, etc, with I think a bass note through in at one point. They're all out of tune, slightly, and they all have that look of "What's the next chord" on their faces, like they have to look at the sheet music (or transcription book), and carefully move their fingers ot the next chord.

Finally, the audio cuts to the DP version, and a voice over explains that Fender uses "HP technology" to put musical instruments in the hands of children.

I mean, 35 some years after "they burned down the gambling house", and that's the song they use in a TV advert to represent children learning to play the guitar. Brilliant!

And no matter how overplayed it is, Smoke On The Water still has one of the greatest guitar riffs ever, whether you like or not.

I remember reading an interview with Wassisname from The Melvins, Buzz Whatever-His-Name-Is, talking about how the most famous thing Ritchie Blackmore ever played was probably also the easiest to play, and that Ritchie should have "stopped wasting time and played more of those kind of riffs". Wait, who the frell are you to say Blackmore "wasted his time"?! Dude, I've heard your music, you're the one who sounds to me like he's wasting his time.

But hey, what do I know? I actually like the Joe Lynn Turner era Rainbow records (but not the Deep Purple record he sang on).

**JeffCarney** · 06-20-2017

I guess I need to give this one another spin.

Had a German Harvest LP not long ago, and was pretty stoked for a revisit, but I don't know ... kind of underwhelmed. Some really good stuff scattered throughout, but overall it seems like they were somewhat lost for 1969. The direction a bit unconvincing, the songs a bit trapped in pop/psych yet trying to reach into classical and Blackmore trying to find his place amidst it all.

I will say that Beggars Opera certainly owed their career to this era of Purple.

**ronmac** · 06-20-2017

^^ Somewhat lost? I think this was when they finally got it together.

**GuitarGeek** · 06-20-2017

Originally Posted by Trane

From what I understand is that the new artistic direction taken was more of less dictated by Blackmood after Lord's two "classical rock" attempt failed at selling lots. Not so sure Lord was agreeing fully to the new direction..

Well, I'm not sure how agreeable Jon was about it, but yeah, apparently they made an agreement that if the "concerto" (yeah right) sold well, they'd pursue that direction. But since it really didn't, Ritchie basically, "Right, then, I know the way forward", and the band sort of pitched in behind him, willingly or not.

I get the impression that around the time of Fireball was when Ritchie started becoming "impossible to work with". In Rock took off, and he sort of adopted a "See, I told you so" attitude, and started dictating everything to the rest of the band. He carried it to the point that he basically got Roger Glover fired from the band.

Oh, if you want to say that Ritchie sold out with Rainbow, during the post Dio-era, there might be some truth to that. It's clear that once Ronnie left the band, he wanted Rainbow to be radio friendly. Or at least, that's what Joe Lynn Turner says, that Ritchie gave him the directive to "get this band on the radio". Hence you've got first Graham Bonnett then Turner, with those "made for radio" singing voices, you've got them doing Russ Ballard songs (well, at least he chose good Russ Ballard songs, unlike say America...), more power ballads, etc. But if you ask me, the upshot was still good quality music.

**Halmyre** · 06-21-2017

There's a Scots word that springs to mind here when talking of the MIB:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/thrawn

thrawn

Adjective

thrawn (comparative mair thrawn, superlative maist thrawn)

1. contrary or perverse; twisted or misshapen.
2. Contrary-minded, in the sense of defiance.
3. difficult, awkward.

Most people would point to 'Stargazer' as Rainbow's high spot, but I also think 'Kill The King' is the road I wish Ritchie, Ronnie and Cozy had travelled down a wee bit further.

**JJ88** · 06-21-2017

Originally Posted by JeffCarney

I guess I need to give this one another spin.

Had a German Harvest LP not long ago, and was pretty stoked for a revisit, but I don't know ... kind of underwhelmed. Some really good stuff scattered throughout, but overall it seems like they were somewhat lost for 1969. The direction a bit unconvincing, the songs a bit trapped in pop/psych yet trying to reach into classical and Blackmore trying to find his place amidst it all.

I will say that Beggars Opera certainly owed their career to this era of Purple.

I have a more favourable view of the album than you...but yes, as I said, it doesn't completely sound like a band that has found their way. That is with the hindsight of the 1970-2 classics that were to follow, perhaps. But I certainly think Gillan is a better vocalist than Rod Evans, for a start, who has a bit of a 'lounge lizard' thing going on IMHO. Gillan doesn't feel as much of an earlier era, despite him also being around for some time (Episode Six).

As for the Concerto, I have never really cared for it, although there are isolated moments worth keeping it for. There is also that Gemini Suite live recording with Deep Purple that came out later:

https://www.discogs.com/Deep-Purple-.../master/146438

**Trane** · 06-21-2017

Originally Posted by JeffCarney

I will say that Beggars Opera certainly owed their career to this era of Purple.

If you're keen on UK proto-prog, the first three Purple would be proto-prog "avant-la-letter"...
Their first two are patchy, but the Bosch-cover album is no flaws

As for Beggar's Opera, their first album is especially Purple-inspired, the next two somewhat less so

Originally Posted by GuitarGeek

Oh, if you want to say that Ritchie sold out with Rainbow, during the post Dio-era, there might be some truth to that. It's clear that once Ronnie left the band, he wanted Rainbow to be radio friendly. Or at least, that's what Joe Lynn Turner says, that Ritchie gave him the directive to "get this band on the radio". Hence you've got first Graham Bonnett then Turner, with those "made for radio" singing voices, you've got them doing Russ Ballard songs (well, at least he chose good Russ Ballard songs, unlike say America...), more power ballads, etc. But if you ask me, the upshot was still good quality music.

It wasn't my intention to say that Blackmood sold out in Rainbow (since we weren't discussing that band), but yeah, As soon as Dio left, despite Powell remaining and the arrival of Glover, DTE was a major disappointment (one good track, thankfully the longest, I believe). Never understood why Bonnett was so appreciated as a singer, though.

[QUOTE=Halmyre;708803]
Most people would point to 'Stargazer' as Rainbow's high spot, but I also think 'Kill The King' is the road I wish Ritchie, Ronnie and Cozy had travelled down a wee bit further.[/QUOTE

Mmmhhh!!!.... Had Kill the King found its way onto Rising (instead of the stinking Do You Close Your Eyes), Rising would've been my almost fave album. the only weaker point is Light In The Vlazck (too long for it's own good)... They could've axed part of it (to 5:30 or sunthin') and place Long Live RnR, and we've got a six star album.

**GuitarGeek** · 06-21-2017

Originally Posted by JJ88

I have a more favourable view of the album than you...but yes, as I said, it doesn't completely sound like a band that has found their way. That is with the hindsight of the 1970-2 classics that were to follow, perhaps. But I certainly think Gillan is a better vocalist than Rod Evans, for a start, who has a bit of a 'lounge lizard' thing going on IMHO. Gillan doesn't feel as much of an earlier era, despite him also being around for some time (Episode Six).

Yeah, I remember Jon Lord saying once that Rod Evans was "a little bit Tom Jones, a little bit Englebert Humperdinck", which at least so far as Deep Purple is concerned, I would reckon is true. You could just imagine him playing performing in Vegas or whatever the UK equivalent is (back before it became fashionable for rock groups to play in casinos and other such venues). And he certainly didn't have the ability to "scream" the way Gillan or Hughes did.

As for the Concerto, I have never really cared for it, although there are isolated moments worth keeping it for.

The original version I've never heard, I only have a DVD of a circa 2000 performance, after they "resurrected" the piece (supposedly, the original score was lost, but some music school escapee apparently recreated it by listening to the original recording and transcribing it out). And I have to agree, I was kinda disappointed with it. If I remember correctly, there was a lot of bits of the orchestra alternating with the band (ie not really both playing together), and most of it sounding a bit...I dunno, to me, it seemed a bit laidback or something. I'd have to get the DVD out and watch it again.

There is also that Gemini Suite live recording with Deep Purple that came out later:

That I've never heard either.

**Guitarplyrjvb** · 06-21-2017

I've always thought Evans sounded like Elvis! When listening to Captain Beyond, I'm always imagining a sequined-jacketed Elvis crooning "Dancing Madly Backwards".

**ronmac** · 06-21-2017

Yep, as much as I LOVE early DP, I was also never a big fan of Evans' singing. I, too, think he sounds like a lounge lizard. That being said (written), I think he really shines on this one (as much as he could) and consider Lalena one of his best performances ever.

**progeezer** · 06-21-2017

Yeah, I'm an Evans lover (and "Thousand Days of Yesterday" by CB is one of my favorite songs ever).

**progeezer** · 06-21-2017

Oh, and I agree that not only were Beggar's Opera (Martin Griffiths) influenced by this DP incarnation, but Martin's son Phillip as well (Alias Eye/Poor Genetic Material).

**ronmac** · 06-21-2017

Originally Posted by progeezer

Yeah, I'm an Evans lover (and "Thousand Days of Yesterday" by CB is one of my favorite songs ever).

Yeah, that is a great one. That debut album rules!

**GuitarGeek** · 06-21-2017

Originally Posted by ronmac

Yeah, that is a great one. That debut album rules!

I love both of the first two Captain Beyond albums. I haven't heard the third one, Dawn Explosion, in so long, I don't remember much about it. But those first two I got on CD not too long, and just love them. I even made up mp3's the combined the segued songs together, to make them easier to play on my radio show.

**Socrates** · 06-21-2017

Finally got around to listen to this again (vinyl). Agree with some of the previous responses, disagree with others. Not keen on Evans' voice on any of the tracks, Lalena is hard to listen to, but the rockier tracks like Chasing Shadows and The Painter are good. Full marks for trying something ambitious with April, but it feels stilted. All IMHO, of course.

My favourite of Jon Lord's classical endeavours is Windows. The band and orchestra work together much better than the previous efforts, and it also dares to be more experimental, probably large part due to the input from Eberhard Schoener (conductor and co-composer).

**pb2015** · 06-21-2017

On the topic of this album, here is a strange record where an American singer dubbed his own vocals on top of "The Painter" and passed it off as a new song called "Sweet Independence" (starts at 7:21 at the link below):

**JeffCarney** · 06-21-2017

Originally Posted by ronmac

^^ Somewhat lost? I think this was when they finally got it together.

Don't hear it that way. For 1969 they sound positively late to me and a bit behind the progress of the era. I admit that sounds a bit weird because some of the material is quite progressive, but let's keep in mind where The Moody Blues had been, where The Nice had been, and Deep Purple's 3rd sounds to me like they are still vaguely in this territory but still adding the Elvis via Engelbert Humperdinck vocal stylings of Evans, and sometimes I just don't fully get wtf they were trying to go for.

As far as the more straight ahead rock components, Blackmore was not yet fully convincing on this album to me. I suspect many a "prog" fan might not understand this, but guys like Clapton and Hendrix were so far ahead of Blackmore at this stage in terms of capturing magic on record.

I'll give it another spin soon. I have mixed feelings about almost every era of Deep Purple anyway, yet own a great majority of the catalog, so I don't know ...

**ronmac** · 06-21-2017

Originally Posted by pb2015

On the topic of this album, here is a strange record where an American singer dubbed his own vocals on top of "The Painter" and passed it off as a new song called "Sweet Independence" (starts at 7:21 at the link below):

Wow, I've never heard anything so blatant.

**ronmac** · 06-21-2017

Originally Posted by JeffCarney

Don't hear it that way. For 1969 they sound positively late to me and a bit behind the progress of the era. I admit that sounds a bit weird because some of the material is quite progressive, but let's keep in mind where The Moody Blues had been, where The Nice had been, and Deep Purple's 3rd sounds to me like they are still vaguely in this territory but still adding the Elvis via Engelbert Humperdinck vocal stylings of Evans, and sometimes I just don't fully get wtf they were trying to go for.

As far as the more straight ahead rock components, Blackmore was not yet fully convincing on this album to me. I suspect many a "prog" fan might not understand this, but guys like Clapton and Hendrix were so far ahead of Blackmore at this stage in terms of capturing magic on record.

I'll give it another spin soon. I have mixed feelings about almost every era of Deep Purple anyway, yet own a great majority of the catalog, so I don't know ...

This is not about who did it first. I'm not suggesting they were going into uncharted territory or changing the world. I'm stating that I think this is where MkI finally got their formula to work consistently through one album. Yes, Rod Evans, like I noted, is the weak link. But, I think Ritchie does some of his coolest guitar work ever on this one. No "Speed King" or "Child in Time," (which I love). But some really tasty playing. Lots of distortion and wah wha. Just really cool stuff.

Who gives a shit if they came after Hendrix, Clapton the Moodies? It's not a contest.

**JeffCarney** · 06-21-2017

Originally Posted by ronmac

This is not about who did it first. I'm not suggesting they were going into uncharted territory or changing the world. I'm stating that I think this is where MkI finally got their formula to work consistently through one album. Yes, Rod Evans, like I noted, is the weak link. But, I think Ritchie does some of his coolest guitar work ever on this one. No "Speed King" or "Child in Time," (which I love). But some really tasty playing. Lots of distortion and wah wha. Just really cool stuff.

I don't hear "consistency." I think they are struggling to find where they fit in the era, and it's not all that shocking that not long after this they revamped the whole fucking thing. But then I generally find the original DP to be highly underrated by the general rock audience at large, but a bit overrated by some of that lineups most diehard fans. Some even ranking it above the MK II stuff, which aside from the largely abysmal WDWTWA is somewhat laughable, IMO.

Originally Posted by ronmac

Who gives a shit if they came after Hendrix, Clapton the Moodies? It's not a contest.

Agree with the latter but not the former. "Freshness" is an important component of musical quality to me. I think it can quite literally be heard as it often comes through in terms of how "inspired" something sounds. In Rock was a band saying: "We're in this game, right fucking now." And the musical quality shows that to be true, IMO. The s/t album is at times cheeky, hasn't aged all that well and sounds like a band still unsure as to whether they are a classically-influenced rock band, a pop band, a hard rock band ... I don't hear it all coming together.

Purely subjective, obviously. And I well could change my mind one day. Even now I'd certainly take it a thousand times over an album like Stormbringer.