ELP Black Moon and In The Hot Seat reissues

[gojikranz]

we were discussing these expected reissues in the love beach thread and they have been announced.

a blade of grass still MIA from black moon and nothing new though I guess it is a nice way to compress your collection and sell those live discs (although you might then be missing the then portion of then and now)

details here:

http://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/...ce=pledgemusic

I believe this will be the first time on vinyl for both of them?

[JJ88]

I mentioned this in that other thread but there was no response.

Black Moon was released on record, as was the title track on a 12" (with the piano instrumental 'Blade Of Grass' that was not on the album).

'Then' was just the California Jam stuff, or what was left of it, wasn't it?

Said on the other thread, they have missed an opportunity to use those 90s remakes only on the Return Of The Manticore box. There are also some 70s recordings only on that box...time for a re-release??

[gojikranz]

oh sorry missed that, but I guess good for those who don't wanna dig into love beach discussion but love in the hot seat

ya the then was the California jam which has gotten a separate slightly more complete release recently. also might want to hang on to the original then and now release for the giger artwork...

maybe they will throw out some odds and sods release could include the various rarities from the two boxsets, the other rerecording of touch and go that they did just before the high voltage show (though that could also be a bonus on what I presume will be a reissue of high voltage to come), blade of glass, hammer it out. could probably come up with a full cd.

[JJ88]

Is there anyone in the world who loves In The Hot Seat? It doesn't sound like it was even much fun to make, with Emerson recovering from surgery, clashes over the direction and an outside producer unsuited to their music. And it totally flopped.

Black Moon I sort of view like Yes' Fly From Here- solid, slick but unexciting. Mind you at least I still listen to Black Moon, and 'Romeo And Juliet' aside, there are few real duds on it. I like the title track, 'Changing States' and 'Closer To Home' quite a bit.

[lak611]

Black Moon was released on vinyl when current but not in the USA. In the Hot Seat was never released on vinyl previously.

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[Fracktured]

Black Moon was full of ballads. The best thing I can say about it is that I didn't find it totally embarrassing like In the Hit Seat was.


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[lak611]

Is there anyone in the world who loves In The Hot Seat? It doesn't sound like it was even much fun to make, with Emerson recovering from surgery, clashes over the direction and an outside producer unsuited to their music. And it totally flopped.

Black Moon I sort of view like Yes' Fly From Here- solid, slick but unexciting. Mind you at least I still listen to Black Moon, and 'Romeo And Juliet' aside, there are few real duds on it. I like the title track, 'Changing States' and 'Closer To Home' quite a bit.

I only listened to In the Hot Seat once. IMO it's worse than Love Beach.

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[Mister Triscuits]

Seat, Hot, In The.

(Black Moon doesn't need its initials altered.)

[yesstiles]

I only listened to In the Hot Seat once. IMO it's worse than Love Beach.

Oh for sure. "Love Beach" is a masterpiece in comparison.

[mx20]

I distinctly remember setting my parent's VCR to record the Video Premier of Black Moon!!

....and how disappointed I was the next morning at what I had captured. I bought the CD anyway, and tried hard to like it, but it was a sequel to the (generally pretty ok) ELPowell album, not a proper sequel to ELP's legacy (imo).

Saw the tour; pretty quiet gig, rather lackluster performance, but enjoyable nonetheless. Bought the concert VHS.

I won't be getting the reissue. I've contributed enough to the Black Moon fund.

Have never heard ITHS. I don't want to hear it, either.

[JAMOOL]

Seat, Hot, In The.

(Black Moon doesn't need its initials altered.)

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......nice

[Sputnik]

I distinctly remember setting my parent's VCR to record the Video Premier of Black Moon!!

....and how disappointed I was the next morning at what I had captured. I bought the CD anyway, and tried hard to like it, but it was a sequel to the (generally pretty ok) ELPowell album, not a proper sequel to ELP's legacy (imo).

Saw the tour; pretty quiet gig, rather lackluster performance, but enjoyable nonetheless. Bought the concert VHS.

I won't be getting the reissue. I've contributed enough to the Black Moon fund.

Have never heard ITHS. I don't want to hear it, either.

Yeah, I was excited when I heard about Black Moon as well, and then was horribly disappointed. To me, it's not a 10th as good as ELPowell, which I really like.

Oddly, my favorite track on Black Moon is Romeo & Juliet, which seems to be somewhat reviled by many here. Maybe I like it so much because I've seen the ballet so many times, and I can picture the Capulets at the celebration, dancing in their angular, angry fashion - evoking something like the Harkonnen's in Dune. For me, the ELP version has so much more power than an orchestra, and to me it better realizes the intent of the piece. I feel the same with Mars, Bringer of War on ELPowell, which I'm sure is heresy to many, but even Holst felt conductors took that piece way too fast, and ELPowell's version seems much more "martial" to me.

As bad as Black Moon was to me, Hot Seat took it to new depths. There's nothing on that album I enjoy, so imo, you're missing absolutely nothing there.

Bill

[Mister Triscuits]

Yeah, I was excited when I heard about Black Moon as well, and then was horribly disappointed. To me, it's not a 10th as good as ELPowell, which I really like.

Oddly, my favorite track on Black Moon is Romeo & Juliet, which seems to be somewhat reviled by many here.

Agreed on all counts. I love "Romeo & Juliet," although largely because ELP's beat is so over-the-top slammin' that it utterly cracks me up. I imagine a vaudevillian chorus line of knights in armor squatting up and down to the rhythmic vamp (I don't know what to call that move--reference the thieves' song in Mr. Magoo's Christmas Carol.) Yet at the same time Prokofiev's theme is so powerful, and Emerson gives it that nasty synthesized twist that he was so good at, that I can soar with the majesty of it at the same time I'm chuckling at the absurdity of it.

[progmatist]

I also love Keith's take on Prokofiev's Montagues and Capulets, from the Romeo and Juliet suites. I love Changing States even more. However, a reissuing of In The Hot Seat?!? I'm still waiting for the reissue of Starland Vocal Band's Rear View Mirror.

[JJ88]

^I'm not that keen on some of Emerson's sound choices throughout Black Moon, but 'Changing States' has some of the old magic. I think this track originated from Emerson's solo career, under another name.

As for the Royal Albert Hall show(s), the album shows a pretty tight performance but there seems to have been a concerted effort to stay very close to the original album versions/arrangements. They took far more chances in their 70s concerts, and improvised much more. Again, the sound choices aren't so hot IMHO- Palmer's drum sound is dreadful. What is it, a syn-drum or one of those 'trigger' things??

RE; 'Romeo And Juliet'. It's the lazy 'slap a beat behind a classical tune' they'd been accused of being in the 70s, but never really were. The only bit I like is where Emerson gets off the leash for a bit in the middle of the track.

[Mister Triscuits]

"Changing States" never quite worked for me. It's a good try, but where it's meant to sound complex it just sounds cluttered to me.

[JJ88]

As for In The Hot Seat, I can't even say it's terrible- it's just mostly bland. I keep it for 'Hand Of Truth', 'One By One' and the cover of Bob Dylan's 'Man In A Long Black Coat', which are all solid tracks, as good as anything on Black Moon (high praise indeed, I hear someone cry!). The latter two are the remnants of Emerson's original goal for the album- some kind of suite based around the Dylan track.

[ThomasKDye]

Is there anyone in the world who loves In The Hot Seat?

"Hand of Truth," while nowhere near what they were capable of, is a decent listen. "One By One" is vaguely okay. The rest, no, though "Gone Too Soon" is passable for a pop song.

I got into "Black Moon" heavily when I would have taken ANY new ELP, so it was grandfathered into my fave list before people told me I wasn't supposed to like it, so I recuse myself.

[progmatist]

I think this track originated from Emerson's solo career, under another name.

Actually, it was originally called "Another Frontier" from the album titled.........wait for it.........Changing States. The original Another Frontier is far better than the reworked song Changing States.

BTW: Montagues and Capulets was also originally on the album Changing States.

[JJ88]

^Emerson's solo career was so low key. I know Esoteric now handle much of his work.

I got into "Black Moon" heavily when I would have taken ANY new ELP, so it was grandfathered into my fave list before people told me I wasn't supposed to like it, so I recuse myself.

It's not a bad album, IMHO, but ELPowell had more of the original spirit and energy, and Lake's voice was more like it was in the 70s. He sounds really good on things like 'The Score' and 'The Miracle'. Yet only 5/6 years later it's what you hear on 'Affairs Of The Heart'.

Black Moon is a decent enough effort. I just miss the instrumental work; it's basically confined to the two instrumentals themselves.

[battema]

Emerson's synth choices by the 90's were awful.

There are moments on 'In the Hot Seat' that hint at something better (the chorus on 'One By One'), but on the whole the album feels like a series of working demos along with a couple of repackaged Lake solo songs. And the fun bits are almost diabolically thwarted by bad bits: the verses on 'Hand of Truth' aren't terrible in and of themselves, but then that incredibly boring/breakfast cereal chorus comes in and just pulls the whole thing back down. Even the solo at the end feels like a semi-decent mono sawtooth preset was dialed up on whatever Korg he was endorsing in that moment (still the 01/W maybe?), and he just threw down the first pass that didn't have an outright clunker. Boom, there's the prog, let's move on...

I will admit mild curiosity about the remaster, not for the music or the bonus disc but just because those liner notes could be hilarious. Pretty sure they can't just issue the release with a booklet that says "yeah, sorry about this whole mess" over and over and over again.

[JJ88]

It's the 'parping brass' sound on things like 'Better Days' which I really don't like. Just a gutless, corny sound...and that's a pity, for someone who was capable of phenomenal tones on his keyboards.

'One By One' is actually one of the better 90s ELP tracks...but oh, I just loathe that stupid vocal effect on the chorus. Just horrible.

[ThomasKDye]

I just miss the instrumental work; it's basically confined to the two instrumentals themselves.

Three. There's also "Close to Home," which I think is lovely, and probably the best track on the album despite being just Keith on the piano.

but then that incredibly boring/breakfast cereal chorus comes in and just pulls the whole thing back down

Us loathesome Asia fans are a little bit more forgiving about that sort of thing. It's many of the other songs that are so cheesy... some of which were written by outside songwriters who would make Diane Warren wince. The fact that one of "Give Me A Reason To Stay"'s publishing credits is "Walt Disney Music" says everything I need to know.

[progmatist]

Emerson's synth choices by the 90's were awful.

It's the 'parping brass' sound on things like 'Better Days' which I really don't like. Just a gutless, corny sound...and that's a pity, for someone who was capable of phenomenal tones on his keyboards.

Keyboards in general sounded pretty cheesy in the early 90s. If you listen to Banco del Mutuo Soccorso's reworking of their self titled debut and Darwin, they also sound corny. At the time, we keyboardists did think they sounded pretty good. I used to think the Yamaha DX7 sounded awesome in the late 80s. As technology has matured over the years, I find myself in disbelief how I could've thought the older tech sounded good.

[battema]

The Banco redos were mostly Roland synths like the U-20, which I owned (still do). I could go through each song and be like "yep, there's that organ patch" and so on, lol. They are an interesting exercise in contrasts...but don't even hold a dim candle to the originals obviously.

The production on Hot Seat is very, very...well, artificial sounding. It's almost like some of Billy Sherwood's earlier production...even the acoustic instruments felt heavily processed.

And those damned synth brass patches are like nails on the chalkboard for me.