Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 151

Thread: ELP Black Moon and In The Hot Seat reissues

  1. #51
    Member lak611's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    616
    Quote Originally Posted by iguana View Post
    for the record: i grew to become quite fond of lake’s lower, more gravelly vocal style as it turned out to be. taken at strictly face value some songs from that time actually gained considerable gravitas (“farewell to arms”) by his more restrained pathos. hate “daddy” (off ITHS) as much as you will, that song sung this way is just right – and, being a father of a young girl, it gets me every time.

    in fact, i believe that here lies one of the biggest missed opportunities in music which will never be rectified again. it's a pity that lake was so self-obsessed with his rock-god-of-yore status … basically too busy to administer his own heritage. “my life is ten songs”? well, do something about it! i always wonder how a little folk-oriented singer/songwriter album by him would have sounded. with a name producer (something which he would have never really tolerated) at his side – i dare say rick rubin – this could have had the impact of an “american recordings” (johnny cash) although it may have been called “english songs” or whatever … but audiences would have had the chance to rediscover a strong and stately voice from the past with material that offers several fathoms.

    shouldacouldawoulda has nver suited me or my interests. had to get this off my chest, though.
    I don't dislike the way Lake's voice sounded in his latter years either. However, I don't think such an album would have been possible. Johnny Cash was a prolific songwriter, as well as a prolific interpreter of songs written by others. Lake wasn't a prolific songwriter, and I never got the impression that he had much interest in doing his own interpretations of songs written by others. He seemed to enjoy time out of the limelight and not doing much of anything during his life post-ELP. Essentially, one could say he retired. Johnny Cash worked until his death (by his own choosing).

    I also got the impression that Cash liked working, and so did his wife June Carter Cash. They were both active until their deaths, and June told Johnny to keep working.

    I got the impression that Lake didn't want to work but had no choice due to financial issues. He seemed to come out of retirement at times when finances might have been an issue (tour that was supposed to happen in 2006, but touring company went bust and he moved to a small house) and in 2012 (possibly needed money due to health issues).

    Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by lak611; 06-18-2017 at 01:47 PM.
    Laura

  2. #52
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Burlington Twp, NJ
    Posts
    2,272
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasKDye View Post
    I got into "Black Moon" heavily when I would have taken ANY new ELP, so it was grandfathered into my fave list before people told me I wasn't supposed to like it, so I recuse myself.
    I'm in the same boat. I enjoyed Black Moon quite a bit back then - havent listened in a long time. I really enjoyed the tour (with Bonham!?) and still pull out the Live at the Royal Albert Hall disc quite a bit. I never got In the Hot Seat. I see a lot of ELPowell mention on this thread - I LOVE that album. Where does everyone stand with "3" (aka Emerson, Berry, Palmer)? Where do you rank this among the '80s/'90s ELP work? I like "Desde la Vida" and the "Talkin Bout" single is a guilty pleasure earworm.

  3. #53
    Member lak611's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    616
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Roth View Post
    I'm in the same boat. I enjoyed Black Moon quite a bit back then - havent listened in a long time. I really enjoyed the tour (with Bonham!?) and still pull out the Live at the Royal Albert Hall disc quite a bit. I never got In the Hot Seat. I see a lot of ELPowell mention on this thread - I LOVE that album. Where does everyone stand with "3" (aka Emerson, Berry, Palmer)? Where do you rank this among the '80s/'90s ELP work? I like "Desde la Vida" and the "Talkin Bout" single is a guilty pleasure earworm.
    I never even bought the 3 album, that's how bad I found it to be. I'm not interested in anything that has Berry on it. He's awful.

    Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
    Laura

  4. #54
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,485
    I'd actually forgotten I'd bought 3 for the princely sum of 99p- speaks volumes on many levels. Having rediscovered it I played it a few times over the past few weeks. It's certainly the weakest album I've heard with Emerson's involvement (yes, that does include Love Beach and In The Hot Seat). Berry is a not-especially-distinctive AOR writer and singer in my view...and it appears from interviews in that period, they actively wanted that big AOR success. They didn't get it, as the songs don't really connect.

    'Desde La Vida' just sounds better than it is, surrounded by such mediocre material IMHO. I don't know if I find it that strong. 'Talkin Bout' is livened up by some typically dynamic Emerson chords. Much of the rest is completely forgettable...although something like 'Runaway' (sadly not the great Del Shannon song!), I had to look at whether this was even the right album playing anymore. As in, Emerson was really on this??
    Last edited by JJ88; 06-18-2017 at 02:06 PM.

  5. #55
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Moscow, RF
    Posts
    317
    Emerson, and Steve Howe played on solo effort of Berry, called Pilgrimage to a Point - it was recorded in 1995, if I'm not mistaken. A much better album than 3.

  6. #56
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    HAM
    Posts
    491
    Quote Originally Posted by grego View Post
    Emerson, and Steve Howe played on solo effort of Berry, called Pilgrimage to a Point - it was recorded in 1995, if I'm not mistaken. A much better album than 3.
    yes, 3/EBP was rather weak. i bought it with aplomp in 1988 because i was eager to get as much as possible from/featuring my (then) new prog heroes – and my copy is even signed by E and P! there are several live boots from the tour out and about and they hint at some very enjoyable live performances (generally 3-songs and ELP instrumentals) with the band basically letting loose and certainly having more fun than ELP tours must have provided.

    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    I never even bought the 3 album, that's how bad I found it to be. I'm not interested in anything that has Berry on it. He's awful.
    i never minded berry’s writing and singing much (as long as this is kept within an AOR realm). his solo album “pilgrimage to a point” has some very strong material, originally to be utilised for his GTR2 and 3 ventures. uplifting west coast AOR with more than a hint of lite prog. what's not to like?

  7. #57
    Member Casey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Newburyport, MA
    Posts
    334
    ^ I was just about to write that I didn't like "3" for the same reason I didn't like "GTR": the singer! To these ears Robert Berry and Max Bacon have the same sounding voice, and it's a voice I don't particularly care for.
    I've got a bike you can ride it if you like

  8. #58
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,485
    ^Definitely. Both have somewhat generic mid-Atlantic vocal styles- despite one being American and the other British, they sound much the same. I do think though that there's the makings of a good album on GTR, not so much 3, which is mostly entirely non-descript.

  9. #59
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    HAM
    Posts
    491
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    ^Definitely. Both have somewhat generic mid-Atlantic vocal styles- despite one being American and the other British, they sound much the same. I do think though that there's the makings of a good album on GTR, not so much 3, which is mostly entirely non-descript.
    well, if we're splitting hairs here ;-)> berry has a bit more rootsy rasp and sincerity (not unlike richard marx) whereras max bacon reproduces dennis de young’s bleating showtuneisms to the point of nausea … which makes me prefer 3 to GTR by a large margin. not that this is really saying much …

  10. #60
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    717
    As bad as the album itself is, calling a band "3" is so idiotic that I'm gonna be biased against it for that reason alone
    Critter Jams "album of the week" blog: http://critterjams.wordpress.com

  11. #61
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Utopia
    Posts
    5,390
    Quote Originally Posted by JAMOOL View Post
    As bad as the album itself is, calling a band "3" is so idiotic that I'm gonna be biased against it for that reason alone
    Even more idiotic is that another crappy prog band later used the same name...er, numeral. Saw that 3 supporting Porcupine Tree some years back.
    Hurtleturtled Out of Heaven - an electronic music composition, on CD and vinyl
    https://michaelpdawson.bandcamp.com
    http://www.waysidemusic.com/Music-Pr...MCD-spc-7.aspx

  12. #62
    big 3 fan here. gotta give it a positive vote. sure it is late 80s but I enjoy that sorta thing from time to time and with the emerson twist I rather like it. I have also found berry fairly enjoyable.

    the main thing that got me liking 3 though was the excellent live shows. do try and track down a bootleg or there was a official release awhile back though it may have gone OOP probably not a huge run on it. just very high energy fun stuff.
    Last edited by gojikranz; 06-19-2017 at 01:09 PM.

  13. #63
    Member lak611's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    616
    Quote Originally Posted by iguana View Post
    yes, 3/EBP was rather weak. i bought it with aplomp in 1988 because i was eager to get as much as possible from/featuring my (then) new prog heroes – and my copy is even signed by E and P! there are several live boots from the tour out and about and they hint at some very enjoyable live performances (generally 3-songs and ELP instrumentals) with the band basically letting loose and certainly having more fun than ELP tours must have provided.



    i never minded berry’s writing and singing much (as long as this is kept within an AOR realm). his solo album “pilgrimage to a point” has some very strong material, originally to be utilised for his GTR2 and 3 ventures. uplifting west coast AOR with more than a hint of lite prog. what's not to like?
    I don't like GTR2 either. The vocalists annoy my ears.

    Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
    Laura

  14. #64
    Put me down as another freak who liked the 3 album a lot, and still listens to it when I'm cycling thru the ELP discography. Yes, I have To the Power of 3 tagged as an ELP album on my iPod.

    The tour was fun, and was an opportunity to see Emerson from a few feet away at a small club (Sundance on Long Island) after seeing him from great distance at MSG with ELPowell a few years before.

  15. #65
    So, maybe it's because Transformers 5 is coming to further molest my childhood memories, or maybe I'm just going through a strong streak of self-loathing...but, I decided to sit down and listen to the entire Hot Seat album.

    Initial thought: it is bad.

    But, after several minutes and some closer attention to the details in the playing/writing...it's not bad. Rather, it's astoundingly bad. Almost bafflingly bad, like I'm not 100% sure ELP knew they were recording an album. Some part of me wonders if Palmer walked into a Tower Records at some point in the mid-90's, saw this, and thought "oh look, another unauthorized greatest hits...wait, WHAT?!?"

    The most "composed" songs feel like they would have been low-charting hits written by nameless songwriters for Madonna in the early 80's (I'm thinking of "Give Me a Reason to Stay" in particular). There are these infuriating little moments where you almost hear something that resembles a good idea, and then it gets just crushed by terrible production, cheese, and a tsunami of digital samples (I'm pretty sure that, except for Lake's voice and the lead electric guitar, EVERY other sound is coming from a Korg workstation). There's literally nothing that identifies Palmer as being part of this album save for his name on the credits, and Emerson is mostly absent (and even some of his leads, I'm not 100% sure it wasn't played by a session player doing an Emerson impression). It's as if Lake got guidance for doing a new ELP album from Jon Anderson.

    Much like Heaven & Earth, I find myself wondering why something like this exists at all. Calling All Stations may have been a dud, but at least the band had a reason (proving they could carry on sans Collins...maybe not a good reason but at least it makes sense).
    If you're actually reading this then chances are you already have my last album but if NOT and you're curious:
    https://battema.bandcamp.com/

    Also, Ephemeral Sun: it's a thing and we like making things that might be your thing: https://ephemeralsun.bandcamp.com

  16. #66
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,485
    I have to say, I don't know why a few songs on 3 and ITHS were from outside songwriters (Black Moon had 'Burning Bridges' by Mark Mancina, but he produced the album and suits them fairly well, with some great work by Emerson). They are pretty bland songs as well.

  17. #67
    In truth, it almost feels like Lake just took a bunch of tunes earmarked for his own solo thing, had the same cowriter/producer work up a handful of unfinished Emerson bits, and...there you go. Palmer is pretty much nonexistent.

    It's just a total cluster. Throwing in the redone Pictures, even with all it's own digital gloss...it just makes the actual album tracks that much harder to swallow.
    If you're actually reading this then chances are you already have my last album but if NOT and you're curious:
    https://battema.bandcamp.com/

    Also, Ephemeral Sun: it's a thing and we like making things that might be your thing: https://ephemeralsun.bandcamp.com

  18. #68
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Moscow, RF
    Posts
    317
    I always thought they could add more tracks from original Pictures into their rendition. How can things like Bydlo, or Limoges be excluded? In the studio, after so many years, they could have done a full version, or at least, expand the old version of 1971. But instead, they featured the concise version of their old one. Some of the pictures were sold)

  19. #69
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Utopia
    Posts
    5,390
    Quote Originally Posted by grego View Post
    I always thought they could add more tracks from original Pictures into their rendition. How can things like Bydlo, or Limoges be excluded?
    I think "Samuel Goldenberg and Schmuyle" is particularly missed. The part that Ravel orchestrated with a muted trumpet would be ripe for an Emersonian quacky Moog sound.
    Hurtleturtled Out of Heaven - an electronic music composition, on CD and vinyl
    https://michaelpdawson.bandcamp.com
    http://www.waysidemusic.com/Music-Pr...MCD-spc-7.aspx

  20. #70
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Moscow, RF
    Posts
    317
    Seems like they had lack of inspiration, both BM and ITHS are rather dull. Perhaps money was the only driving reason for them to reunite in the 90s.

  21. #71
    Lumping Black Moon and In the Hot Seat together is weird to me. To my ears, all the criticism ITHS gets is justified, but I thought Black Moon was great. Maybe I need to listen to it - it's been years.

  22. #72
    Black Moon was actually the very first ELP album I heard/bought. As such, it has definite nostalgic value for me.

    But over time it hasn't held up terribly well; much like Hot Seat, the move to digital synthesizers didn't add much value. And Palmer's drumming is more of a timekeeper role than innovator, as was the case on the earlier albums (on the upside, he isn't rushing tempos as much as he did in the 70's ). It is better than Hot Seat, but still a considerable distance from the heights of their past.
    If you're actually reading this then chances are you already have my last album but if NOT and you're curious:
    https://battema.bandcamp.com/

    Also, Ephemeral Sun: it's a thing and we like making things that might be your thing: https://ephemeralsun.bandcamp.com

  23. #73
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,485
    Palmer was phoning it in by this time, IMHO- songs like 'Romeo And Juliet' and 'Paper Blood' might as well have a machine on them. And that drum sound is putrid.

    At his best I suppose he was a 'brains and brawn' drummer- witness something like 'Toccata'.

    I do see them as similar albums really, but at least Black Moon doesn't have so many generic ballads.

  24. #74
    In truth, I kind of assumed that Palmer's time with Asia had greatly influenced what he brought to the table with Black Moon and ITHS. I mean, the title track from Black Moon was more or less the ELP version of Rock & Roll Dream.

    It's also entirely possible that he did little/nothing at all...all the drums are pretty much sampled sounds which certainly could've been programmed without much fuss.
    If you're actually reading this then chances are you already have my last album but if NOT and you're curious:
    https://battema.bandcamp.com/

    Also, Ephemeral Sun: it's a thing and we like making things that might be your thing: https://ephemeralsun.bandcamp.com

  25. #75
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,485
    I think the title track on Black Moon is an effective streamlining of the ELP sound like 'Touch And Go' was. I do like that instrumental coda.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •