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Thread: Neal Schon/Jonathan Cain Journey turmoil?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valen View Post
    - picking their next singer from a covers band on Youtube (who really impressed me on his first tour, but ended up sidelined onstage on the follow-up tour I saw)
    Did you hear their R&RHOF induction? Pineda was way off.

    There are many parallels with latter-day Yes in the 'soap opera' stakes.

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Valen View Post
    I used to really like this band's music, but man, they're more kitchen sink drama than rock and roll these days.

    It's gonna make for a great mini-series to pay for their retirement/alimony bills:

    - the aggro with Perry not wanting to tour outside the US
    - poor Steve Augeri singing his voice to pieces and having to resort to backing tapes
    - the band strenuously denying backing tapes until the hard drive crashes mid gig and Augeri leaves the stage, with drummer Dean filling in on vocals while the roadie drums around cues from Valory
    - Jeff Scott Soto saving their bacon at short notice and becoming so popular that Schon sacks him out of spite, but poor Soto only learning about his sacking third hand because no one in the band has the courtesy to tell him upfront
    - picking their next singer from a covers band on Youtube (who really impressed me on his first tour, but ended up sidelined onstage on the follow-up tour I saw)
    - and now Schon and Cain getting into a desperate housewives spat....

    Meanwhile, Perry happily sits back, enjoys the quiet life and lets the royalties flow into his account. If anyone's crying now, it's certainly not him
    I get the impression there's been a lot of melodrama in this band at least from at least the day they decided that Neal and Gregg sharing the lead vocals wasn't cutting it. A few of the things I remember off the top of my head:

    -The band hires Robert Fleischman, takes him on the road, they do some rehearsing and songwriting with him (he has three songwriting credits on Infinity, and there's a fourth song that was eventually released on the Time Cubed boxset) but was fired before they actually began recording what ended up being Infinity.
    -As has been mentioned, apparently Perry had some role in Gregg Rolie's decision to leave the band.
    -Jonathan Cain joins, and as I mentioned in an earlier post, blackmailed the band into pulling strings so his first wife could get a record deal.
    -Steve Perry pitching a fit when it's decided that the Frontiers tour was going to have the band playing in stadiums, which then resulted in them being apparently the first band tour to with their own video screen system, as a means of restoring the intimacy for fans out in the nosebleed seats.
    -Perry then hijacked the band, by apparently getting the others to sign legal documents (including non disclosure agreements) that gave him control of the band. According to Herbie Herbert (apparently the only person in the Journey circle to not sign a non-disclosure agreement), to this day, Steve gets a chunk of money from any and all touring they do, because of this. He said the band was effectively "Steve's bitches".
    -Perry releases a solo album, which pisses off Neal because it sounds like a Journey record.
    -Perry unilaterally fires both Ross Valory and Steve Smith, because he felt they were giving him the results he wanted in the studio.
    -Don't even get me started on the debacle of Raised On Radio (which is where I feel the train went sideways)
    -Reputedly, during the Raised On Radio tour, Perry was coughing up blood on a regular basis. I think Neal mentioned this in an interview in the early 90's, when the Time Cubed set came out, insinuating that was due to some kind of damage that had occurred to Perry's vocal cords.
    -Then the band eventually gets back together in the 90's, records a new album (something like a decade after Raised On Radio), but before they can go on tour, Perry injures his hip, decides he doesn't want to get surgery, so he more or less gets kicked out of the band (though he apparently still "owns" the band), and Steve Smith then quits, deciding that the band has "no future" without Perry.

    One thing I always thought was amusing was when Perry did his first solo record, one of the videos was for a ballad called Foolish Heart. Now, usually, when you see this video, it ends with Perry walking off the stage at the end of the song. But when it originally came out, just before Christmas of whichever year it was , there was this extra ending, where as he walks off stage, the edit cuts to a shot from the wings, with the rest of Journey (including Valory and Smith) waiting to greet him with champagne. Together, they address the camera, wishing views happy holidays and a happy new year. This clip was later dropped, I think, once January rolled around and the holiday greeting thing was deemed superfluous.

    At the time, they made it look like they were old buddies, or maybe itw as a move to quell any rumors that Perry was leaving the band. But knowing what went on behind the scenes now, it just kinda seems funny. One imagines they were probably at each others throats up until the moment that the director called action.

  3. #28
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    Don't drag Yes into this.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    He's married to Michaele Salahi, the notorious "White House crasher." It was a very scandalous affair, apparently. They had been "dating" for months while Schon was still married, and Salahi's husband actually reported her missing when she was, in fact, touring with the band.
    I only vaguely remember the whole "White House crasher" thing but Wiki says she was also on one of the Real Housewives shows.

    re: Perry
    I once read that he receives a cut of the band's touring receipts. Nice work, if you can get it.
    According to Herbie, that's literally tour. Whether or not he goes out on tour with them, he still gets a paycheck. The way Herbie made it sound, apparently, this dates back to whatever legal documents the band signed during the Frontiers era. One assumes Steve must have threatened to quit, or not go on tour, or whatever, if his ultimatum wasn't met. This is why he was able to fire Smith and Valory during the preliminary sessions for what ended up being Raised On Radio. In the Behind The Music show, Perry talks about how "Oh, I never felt like I was really a band member", and Ross Valory is like, "Well, he was the one making all the decisions, so I don't know he can say he wasn't a band member".

    And apparently, the reason why you never hear anyone else from Journey talk about any of this is because Perry got them to sign non-disclosure agreements, so they literally can't talk about it, legally speaking. Herbie said when the Behind The Music crew interviewed him, they told him all the band members kept saying, "You really need to talk to Herbie, he could tell you more than I can". Herbie says, "That's because I never signed the non-disclosure agreement".

  5. #30
    Member Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    I watched that Pineda RRHOF performance and I'm not sure what was so bad about it. It did seem like he was having to struggle a bit, which did make me question how he could pull off entire shows, but I didn't think his pitch was egregiously off in enough spots to say he has completely lost it or anything. <shrug>
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plasmatopia View Post
    I watched that Pineda RRHOF performance and I'm not sure what was so bad about it. It did seem like he was having to struggle a bit, which did make me question how he could pull off entire shows, but I didn't think his pitch was egregiously off in enough spots to say he has completely lost it or anything. <shrug>
    You've said it yourself. IMHO he was struggling.

  7. #32
    Oh, and regarding the melodrama, I forgot that Herbie also claimed that Aynsley Dunbar got fired from the band because he kept getting himself into trouble with teenage girls!

  8. #33
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Well, now we've tied the Journey thread to the prick musicians thread. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

  9. #34
    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    Don't drag Yes into this.
    Arnel's their next singer.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    You've said it yourself. IMHO he was struggling.
    There's a difference between struggling and hitting the notes and struggling and not hitting the notes, no?
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  11. #36
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    ^He wasn't hitting the big notes! 'Don't Stop Believin' has some really grim moments.

  12. #37
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    Cain's respone to Schon on Twitter:

    A heart of gratitude leaves no room for complaining. For it is impossible to be truly thankful and filled with negativity and ungratefulness at the same time.


    And even Arnel spoke out:

    Praying LOVE will prevail in the end..
    #BrothersThen
    #BrothersWillBeAgain
    #inGodsGuidance

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Valen View Post
    the hard drive crashes mid gig and Augeri leaves the stage, with drummer Dean filling in on vocals while the roadie drums around cues from Valory
    I've never heard this story before. But it's got me youtubing Deen Castronovo's singing exploits now. Helluva voice.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesmanzi View Post
    I've never heard this story before. But it's got me youtubing Deen Castronovo's singing exploits now. Helluva voice.
    Apparently there was one album they during the Augeri era where each of them took turns singing lead. I also remember seeing a show on VH-1, during that time frame, where they were doing a song with Cain singing lead.

  15. #40
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesmanzi View Post
    I've never heard this story before. But it's got me youtubing Deen Castronovo's singing exploits now. Helluva voice.
    Yep. It's a shame that he's such a mess, otherwise.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  16. #41
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    "A heart of gratitude leaves no room for complaining. For it is impossible to be truly thankful and filled with negativity and ungratefulness at the same time." - J Cain

    Clipboard01.jpg

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    ^He wasn't hitting the big notes! 'Don't Stop Believin' has some really grim moments.
    So was he just singing alternate parts to avoid the difficult ones?

    Edit: Okay, this is interesting. I was just watching an audience video of Journey's performance at the RRHOF and here it is obvious where Pineda isn't hitting the notes. I can't locate it now, but I saw another one a few weeks ago that had far more professional sound where I didn't notice him being so far off. Hmmmm...
    Last edited by Plasmatopia; 06-06-2017 at 06:34 PM.
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  18. #43
    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Every time a singer blows his voice out, Gurney goes and finds another one.

    The sole exception is Jeff Scott Soto, who was too good for them (and isn't a Perry clone).

  19. #44
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    Cryptically, Schon just shared the original melodicrock.com link (in the OP) on Facebook and posted this:

    To all fans

    I love and respect our legacy and will do everything to honor & protect it beyond when I'm gone.

    Much love and gratitude to you all,

    Neal Schon Journey Founder from 1973 - Eternity 🔥🎸🌎 The best has yet to come 🙏🏾

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    He's married to Michaele Salahi, the notorious "White House crasher." It was a very scandalous affair, apparently. They had been "dating" for months while Schon was still married, and Salahi's husband actually reported her missing when she was, in fact, touring with the band.
    And Michaele has chimed in with her own cryptic post:

    "Neal, My Love
    Your Journey 72-Eternity
    Blessed You are to protect The Legacy You , Gregg Rolie and Steve Perry Built!
    So many formations, talented members you have had join you!
    Excited for the evolution again!
    I love you
    Your Lady M🌹

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Apparently there was one album they during the Augeri era where each of them took turns singing lead. I also remember seeing a show on VH-1, during that time frame, where they were doing a song with Cain singing lead.
    The last time I saw Journey, a few years ago, Castronovo sang the lead on “Mother / Father” and totally nailed it. It happens to be one of my favorite Journey songs and I was a bit dumbstruck by how good it was. He think he also sings lead on at least one song on both the “Revelation” and “Eclipse” albums if I remember correctly and they are both good.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plasmatopia View Post
    I watched that Pineda RRHOF performance and I'm not sure what was so bad about it. It did seem like he was having to struggle a bit, which did make me question how he could pull off entire shows, but I didn't think his pitch was egregiously off in enough spots to say he has completely lost it or anything. <shrug>
    He was definitely struggling a bit compared to when I saw him live a few years ago. I thought the guy was an amazing front man. He hit all the notes, while at the same time running all over the stage. The Hall Of Fame performance was not nearly as good.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    He was definitely struggling a bit compared to when I saw him live a few years ago. I thought the guy was an amazing front man. He hit all the notes, while at the same time running all over the stage. The Hall Of Fame performance was not nearly as good.
    I have one of Journey's live dvds from a few years back where Arnel is astonishing, both in terms of absolutely nailing Perry's old parts and also running around the stage like a mad person. One suspects, however, that as with Perry before him, Arnel is discovering that being able to deliver that level of performance for show after show over many years comes with a terrible price.

  24. #49
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    Just out of interest, do Journey actually play any of the songs on which Rolie (co-)sang lead vocals these days? Even from the Perry era these were always amongst my favourite tunes.

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by kid_runningfox View Post
    Just out of interest, do Journey actually play any of the songs on which Rolie (co-)sang lead vocals these days? Even from the Perry era these were always amongst my favourite tunes.
    I somehow find it unlikely, but not completely impossible. I have this vague memory, back during the Augeri, they did one tour that was being advertised as featuring songs from every album, but I have no idea exactly what they did from, say the first three albums.

    Journey's one of those bands that's had so many hits, at least Stateside anyway, they could probably do an entire show just off the hits. If they were to play just the singles from Escape and Frontiers, you're talking about 40 minutes already. Throw in Wheel In The Sky, Any Way You Want It, Lovin' Touchin' Squeezin, Only The Young, Lights, Be Good To Yourself...what am I forgetting? (checking Wiki) OK, The Girl Can't Help It, and I'll Be Alright, if they play just those songs, you're talking easily at least an hour long set. Throw in a gaggle of songs from the last two or three albums (promoters and fans might hate it, but the band has to acknowledge the fact they've had a recording career since 1986), and maybe two or three "rare album tracks" that they probably have done in 30 years, and you're already talking 90 minutes already.

    What I'd love to know is if they ever did People & Places (which had Schon on co-lead vocals) or Only Solutions (a song from the Tron soundtrack) live. I remember when the Tron soundtrack finally came out on CD, everyone was excited about all these "lost" Wendy Carlos pieces that had been out of print for 20 years, and I was excited about the Journey songs (yeah, Only Solutions was on the Time Cubed box, but 1990's Theme I think has only ever been available on the LP and CD releases of the Tron soundtrack).

    Edit: Wikipedia gives setlists for the two most recent tours, with two setlists for each tour. Going by that, it would appear they haven't done any of the songs Gregg Rolie sang lead on, but they have curiously regularly done a song called Ask The Lonely, which was apparently a leftover from the Frontiers sessions that ended up on some movie soundtrack. Apart from that, they seem to mostly do the songs you'd expect them to do, with the odd album track (like Rubicon or Father, Mother) thrown into the mix.

    Would love to see a setlist from that tour they did where they were playing stuff off every album.
    Last edited by GuitarGeek; 06-07-2017 at 04:35 AM.

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