Zappa on Beat Club 1968: Major influence on Krautrock?

**arturs** · 06-02-2017

I recently picked up the Zappa Beat Club DVD. First of all, amazing footage from so long ago. I had never paid attention to Zappa pre-Hot Rats before so this is all new to me, except for some Hot Rats fragments. Also 90 minutes of themes and improv is not something I would have ever associated with Zappa.

I was struck with how much Krautrock I was hearing. There are moments of the improv that could have been straight off of Can's Tago Mago or Landed, the Faust debut, or anything by early Duul II or Xhol. All of these appeared a few years later. Even though I have heard Irmin Schmidt claim proudly on several occasions that Can had no influences, I think he's wrong.

Were all the Krautrockers grooving to Zappa in '68?

**zravkapt** · 06-02-2017

AFAIK the only 'Krautrock' band who claimed an influence from The Mothers was Faust. Many 'avant-prog' bands were hugely influenced by Zappa.

Originally Posted by arturs

90 minutes of themes and improv is not something I would have ever associated with Zappa

You need to listen to more Zappa, especially his live albums.

**GuitarGeek** · 06-02-2017

Originally Posted by arturs

I was struck with how much Krautrock I was hearing. There are moments of the improv that could have been straight off of Can's Tago Mago or Landed, the Faust debut, or anything by early Duul II or Xhol. All of these appeared a few years later. Even though I have heard Irmin Schmidt claim proudly on several occasions that Can had no influences, I think he's wrong.

Were all the Krautrockers grooving to Zappa in '68?

It's possible, though I think it's also just as like that a lot of the (ahem) "Krautrock" bands were listening to some of the same stuff Frank and his band were, hence they had common influences. Irmin Schmidt, for one, studied with Karlheinz Stockhausen, so it's likely he had at least a passing familiarity not just with Herr Stockhausen, but also other contemporary composers, such as Gyorgy Ligeti (who I believe is the one musical influence that Edgar Froese owned up to) and Edgard Varese (Frank's favorite).

And it's probably likely the so called "Krautrock" bands were aware of what was going on in the jazz world, eg Eric Dolphy, John Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, Miles Davis, etc.

On the other hand, I've always heard it said that Frank was hugely popular in Europe. I know Frank said once that Hot Rats was a top ten album in several countries over there. So maybe German musicians of the era did know about Frank and was influenced by him.

**rcarlberg** · 06-03-2017

Oh they were all huge fans. Why do you think Faust's Werner Diermaier nicknamed himself "Zappi"? But as GuitarGeek said, there were tons of influences floating about at the time, going both ways.

**arturs** · 06-03-2017

I can't believe I missed it the first time through but minutes 27-38 of the full Beat Club rehearsal could have come straight out of Soft Machine 3rd. So it is not only Krautrock but Canterbury too. Zappa sure got around.

**arturs** · 06-03-2017

Originally Posted by zravkapt

You need to listen to more Zappa, especially his live albums.

Can you recommend me one, pre-1970?

**JeffCarney** · 06-03-2017

Originally Posted by zravkapt

AFAIK the only 'Krautrock' band who claimed an influence from The Mothers was Faust. Many 'avant-prog' bands were hugely influenced by Zappa.

His influence upon late 60s/early 70s German music was vast. Probably hard to even measure.

Even "symph-prog" bands like Grobschnitt worshipped Zappa.

All those political bands like Floh De Cologne may have come to different political conclusions than Zappa, but the influence was also in that scene.

Man ... it was all OVER the place in early 70s Germany.