SCOTCH Whisky Discussion

[Duncan Glenday]

...
if memory serves, it means river/creek or valley

Valley

[moecurlythanu]

How much for a dram?

https://www.cnn.com/videos/luxury/20...on-orig-gb.cnn

[NogbadTheBad]

How much for a dram?

https://www.cnn.com/videos/luxury/20...on-orig-gb.cnn

That's just stupid, only for people with money to burn literally.

[Poisoned Youth]

That's just stupid, only for people with money to burn literally.

True, but it does sort of open up the debate if whisky aged 30-40-50 years really gets *that* much better, not to mention that this particular item was bottled 30 year ago.

[Trane]

True, but it does sort of open up the debate if whisky aged 30-40-50 years really gets *that* much better, not to mention that this particular item was bottled 30 year ago.

I'd buy it to extract the spirit in an undetectable manner, replace it with a normal one (even on the relatively expensive side) and resell it in two years' time.

What I do find odd is that they were already using sherry or port casks way back then (1929), though. I thought that slant was fairly more recent than that.

[Poisoned Youth]

What I do find odd is that they were already using sherry or port casks way back then (1929), though. I thought that slant was fairly more recent than that.

Good point. I'm not much of a historian on this topic, but I wonder how streamlined and structured the process of getting the casks were back in that time as opposed to today. I'd have to assume that back then and earlier there was probably a lot more variation on the quality of the casks they were getting.


Incidentally, I have been hearing the phrase "sherry seasoned" of late. My understanding in this case is sherry is used specifically to soak the cask for a bit then removed instead of fully aging in that cask, thereby "cheapening" the process. Anyone hear of this?

[spellbound]

Incidentally, I have been hearing the phrase "sherry seasoned" of late. My understanding in this case is sherry is used specifically to soak the cask for a bit then removed instead of fully aging in that cask, thereby "cheapening" the process. Anyone hear of this?

I haven't heard of that, specifically, but the cheapness doesn't surprise me, in a world where winemakers throw oak chips in the vat and claim aging in oak barrels. I'm not sure what the availability of Sherry casks is, or what it was historically, as news from Spain is scarce in this self-centered country. I know a lot of spirits (and now wines and beers) are claiming bourbon cask aging. This is no surprise, considering the law in Kentucky forbids re-using oak casks for making bourbon. Of course, they're going to sell the once-used casks. To my taste, anything aged in a bourbon cask (or for that matter, a sherry cask) tastes very sweet. Some people might like that, though. I, for one, care less for them.

My own tastes run thus:

wine: dry red wine. Most American wines and quite a few foreign ones taste (to me) like sweet grape juice with alcohol. The oenophiles call this "fruit forward." I call it "not quite wine."*
beer: india pale ale, bitter is better. I don't exclusively drink IPA, but it is my favorite brew.
whisky: Islay malts, the least sweet of whiskies, AFAIK. I have not tried every one of the world's whiskies.

*Wine marketers have no shame. I was in a store where they described the taste of a California red (I forget the variety) as "smoky." Smoky is not a flavor one looks for in wine. I suspect the smoke came from the fires they had in Napa a couple years ago. Since the flavor could not be removed, it became a "feature." Many of you are likely familiar with software wherein bugs became features.

[Lopez]

Wine marketers have no shame. I was in a store where they described the taste of a California red (I forget the variety) as "smoky." Smoky is not a flavor one looks for in wine. I suspect the smoke came from the fires they had in Napa a couple years ago. Since the flavor could not be removed, it became a "feature." Many of you are likely familiar with software wherein bugs became features.

Not to get off the topic, but where bugs become features reminds me of something I heard in genetics class in college: There is some breed of dog, beagle or dachshund, if I remember correctly, that had some sort of mutation years ago and that mutation has now become a desired quality in that breed. (Of course, all breeds are mutations of wolf.)

[NogbadTheBad]

This whole trend is also to offset the need to declare the age of the whisky as there is a global shortage of aged whisky. Market the brand using features instead of age.

[Duncan Glenday]

This whole trend is also to offset the need to declare the age of the whisky as there is a global shortage of aged whisky. Market the brand using features instead of age.

Does that really matter?

I.e. if it tastes good, should we care if it comes from the classic ageing techniques or from modern manipulation?

Or put differently - is there a real difference, or is it just a carmudgeonly resistance to change that makes us look down our noses at it?

Something like '70s vs modern prog, or classic metal vs the more modern approaches, which might <shock-horror> include cookie monsters?

[NogbadTheBad]

Ok, I'm going to be a snob, I've tried a few of these marketing speak non-aged whiskys, and even my notoriously poor palette notices the difference. I'll take a good 12 to 16 from a known distiller over a similarly known marketing speak whisky.

[Poisoned Youth]

I see both sides of the NAS and age statement debate. Ultimately I am more with Duncan, if it tastes great or unique, that’s more important to me.

To spellbound, I think the trend may be beginning to move towards “craft wine”. I had an Apothic blend called Inferno that was aged in bourbon barrels. It was subtle, but I could taste it and enjoyed it.

Several of us here really enjoy Laphroiag Quarter Cask. It’s a non age statement Islay with all the Laphroaig signature goodness with other complex elements not found in the 10. Currently I have none and that makes me sad.

[NogbadTheBad]

Agree on the Laphroaig Quarter Cask, less so on the Four Oak.

[Duncan Glenday]

I thought y'all would be agreeing with me on cookie monster vocals!

Oh well - I'm wrapping up work right now and pouring myself a slug of 12-year-old (properly aged ) Aberfeldy.

[Paul]

Several of us here really enjoy Laphroiag Quarter Cask. It’s a non age statement Islay with all the Laphroaig signature goodness with other complex elements not found in the 10. Currently I have none and that makes me sad.

I also prefer the Quarter Cask to the 10. And I currently have two bottles, which makes me happy (it's currently £32 at Waitrose for any UK fans). Although I like and drink plenty of other young whiskies I think that if you prize complexity of flavour an aged whisky is where to go.

[Andyyyy]

This thread has taken off! But this discussion could not be complete without these notable experts....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq-3gsb8eb4

[Jerjo]

I thought y'all would be agreeing with me on cookie monster vocals!
.

Let's just say, like whisky, it's an acquired taste

[chalkpie]

Anybody hip to Dalwhinnie 15? I picked up a bottle and I'm not totally blown away, but its decent enough. I'll be passing by the distillery on the way to Skye next summer so I figured I'd try it.

BTW, Laphroaig Triple Wood......YUMM YUMM YUMMY. That's a fuckin winner.

[Stevie B]

Highland Park 12 Viking Honour.......This is fucking AMAZING. I mean AMAZING. Just buy it. Possibly jumping into my top 5 fav of all time, yes its that good. A wee slight peat, vanilla, caramel, oak, wood, sweet, more sweet, complex, just yummy...great finish tasting the cask. The bottle is absolutely gorgeous too, Celtic design. Gorgeous.

Reading this I thought maybe Highland Park had brought out a new 12yr old, but a bit of googling would suggest that this is simply a new name for the regular 12yr old HP. In which case I agree with you, as per my original post on this thread this is my default single malt and has been for a good thirty-odd years, and it never gets old...

[NogbadTheBad]

I'll go back and check it again tonight.

[JKL2000]

I haven't heard of that, specifically, but the cheapness doesn't surprise me, in a world where winemakers throw oak chips in the vat and claim aging in oak barrels. I'm not sure what the availability of Sherry casks is, or what it was historically, as news from Spain is scarce in this self-centered country. I know a lot of spirits (and now wines and beers) are claiming bourbon cask aging. This is no surprise, considering the law in Kentucky forbids re-using oak casks for making bourbon. Of course, they're going to sell the once-used casks. To my taste, anything aged in a bourbon cask (or for that matter, a sherry cask) tastes very sweet. Some people might like that, though. I, for one, care less for them.

My own tastes run thus:

wine: dry red wine. Most American wines and quite a few foreign ones taste (to me) like sweet grape juice with alcohol. The oenophiles call this "fruit forward." I call it "not quite wine."*
beer: india pale ale, bitter is better. I don't exclusively drink IPA, but it is my favorite brew.
whisky: Islay malts, the least sweet of whiskies, AFAIK. I have not tried every one of the world's whiskies.

*Wine marketers have no shame. I was in a store where they described the taste of a California red (I forget the variety) as "smoky." Smoky is not a flavor one looks for in wine. I suspect the smoke came from the fires they had in Napa a couple years ago. Since the flavor could not be removed, it became a "feature." Many of you are likely familiar with software wherein bugs became features.

I agree with all of this. I once took a wine tasting class held by a guy who bought for a very good wine shop, and he was really anti-Chardonnay, which is often heavily oaked. He pointed out how if you try a lot of other types of white wine, then try a Chardonnay, it tastes the way a burned-down house smells. He was completely correct, IMO, and I've never had a Chardonnay since then.

[chalkpie]

Dalwhinnie is slowly winning me over. It has a very light and "watery" mouthfeel, but it also packs some heat, so its a bit odd that. Taste is quite good though, lots of honey character, and as you sip it seems to win you over more and more. Or maybe that's wishful thinking since I dumped about $71 USD on it

[Poisoned Youth]

Dalwhinnie is slowly winning me over. It has a very light and "watery" mouthfeel, but it also packs some heat, so its a bit odd that. Taste is quite good though, lots of honey character, and as you sip it seems to win you over more and more. Or maybe that's wishful thinking since I dumped about $71 USD on it

Dalwhinnie 15? I like it. I still have remnants of a bottle I bought several years back. It's a bit "unremarkable" in comparison to my favorites. One of the attributes I would assign to it is "floral". At least that is how I interpret the lightness you're referring to.

[chalkpie]

Dalwhinnie 15? I like it. I still have remnants of a bottle I bought several years back. It's a bit "unremarkable" in comparison to my favorites. One of the attributes I would assign to it is "floral". At least that is how I interpret the lightness you're referring to.

Yeah, I can see the floral description. Yes its the 15. It is a bit unremarkable compared to the big boys but its definitely unique.

[NogbadTheBad]

I find both the Dalwhinnie and Highland Park nice but unexceptional, maybe I'm too married to peatiness these days.