Revisiting late '70s Camel

[Scrotum Scissor]

I gave Breathless a close listen then. I'm in complete agreement with you. Even the much ballyhooed Echoes I find fairly "meh." The rest is either commercial, or just not that good to my ears. Whatever.

I've come to the conclusion that, for me, Camel ended with Rain Dances.

While I like "Echoes" well enough, I'm not one of those who finds it their best-ever track or anything, and I actually enjoy a couple of other Breathless songs over that one. As said, I think it was a rather successful attempt at doing something altogether rather different - a kind of "poppy Canterbury" thing. A piece like "The Sleeper" even sounds like a leftover Hatfield track at times - which "Down On the Farm" apparently even was.

But Bill, did you hear any of the last three studio records Camel released? To my ears, the final one especially (A Nod and a Wink) arguably contained their finest moments since the good parts of Breathless.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Albums like Harbour Of Tears and Rajaz are the best they did since Moonmadness.

Well, yeah - sort of. And it isn't because they're in any way "groundbreaking" or even trying to be; rather they appear strong as separate artistic statements within the concept of "epic rock" - like a more rewarding take on what Dire Straits attempted on Love Over Gold, for instance. Unpretentious yet still somewhat strangely adventurous, and very, very fitting of Camel. Hell, even Latimer's voice sounds better and more mature than it did in the latter half of the 70s!

[JKL2000]

Well, yeah - sort of. And it isn't because they're in any way "groundbreaking" or even trying to be; rather they appear strong as separate artistic statements within the concept of "epic rock" - like a more rewarding take on what Dire Straits attempted on Love Over Gold, for instance. Unpretentious yet still somewhat strangely adventurous, and very, very fitting of Camel. Hell, even Latimer's voice sounds better and more mature than it did in the latter half of the 70s!

Kind of like APP, right? Alan Parsons Project, that is.

[Sputnik]

In general I am in agreement, but I think that the second half of the 90s has been a renaissance for them. Albums like Harbour Of Tears and Rajaz are the best they did since Moonmadness.

Can't say I feel the same. I found both of those albums to be pretty "ho-hum." I don't think Camel has ever come close to Moonmadnees since Moonmadness. The energy of that early period just seemed to disappear, save a few brief moments here and there. It's fine if people like it, and I have tried, believe me. But even if these are the "best since Moonmadness" (which I don't agree with, but whatever), they pale in comparison with that early stuff for me.

But Bill, did you hear any of the last three studio records Camel released? To my ears, the final one especially (A Nod and a Wink) arguably contained their finest moments since the good parts of Breathless.

Yes, I've heard all the Camel studio albums, and owned most. Nod and a Wink didn't do it for me, though it did have a bit more energy than the previous albums, to my ears. They played it way too safe on this, imo. I'd have liked it more if they cut loose a little bit.

Kind of like APP, right? Alan Parsons Project, that is.

This is what I think Camel became, a sort of hodge-podge of AAP and Pink Floyd. I hate APP, and am not a huge Pink Floyd fan, so that probably explains my rather tepid reaction to their post Rain Dances stuff, and particularly their material from Nude and after.

Bill

[Scrotum Scissor]

I hate APP, and am not a huge Pink Floyd fan, so that probably explains my rather tepid reaction

Well, I don't really "hate" much in music but there's a bit I have to admit to disliking - of which APP are one. And I'm lukewarm to PF post-Syd, albeit with odd exceptions. Still I quite enjoy those later Camels.

Plus I fancy a fusion of Wayne Newton, Cannibal Corpse and The Supremes.

[Sputnik]

Well, I don't really "hate" much in music but there's a bit I have to admit to disliking - of which APP are one. And I'm lukewarm to PF post-Syd, albeit with odd exceptions. Still I quite enjoy those later Camels.

Great, glad you enjoy them. They put me to sleep, big time. I also vastly prefer post-Syd PF, but am not a huge PF fan. It's all good.

Bill

[bill g]

I guess we're spouting opinions so I confess difficulty in resisting joining in.

I think Raindances is good, I don't know that I personally enjoy it as much as their first four, but it's got some great stuff on it. The outro to 'Uneven Song' is superb. And I've always loved Skylines.

Breathless is their feel-good summer album. 'Echoes' may be my favorite Camel song too, incredible feeling in that one. Great chords, great melodies. I'm a sucker for that. I've always enjoyed 'Summer Lightning' too, classic summer driving music, and then the title track and 'The Sleeper' are decent.

ICSYHFH is mostly really good. I probably echo what most others have said, favorites include the intro to 'Who We Are', 'Hymn To Her' and 'Ice'.

Nude is more consistent, but nothing moves me as much as the best moments of the previous three. That said, overall it is a pretty strong album, free of the so-called clunkers (well, ones I'm not personally into-such as 'Remote Romance') I guess one can't go too wrong with any of their first 8 albums.

[JJ88]

It's the last two 80s albums which are the most like APP, because of people like Chris Rainbow joining the band. These 1977-9 albums (and Nude) all still mostly feel like Camel, to me, save a couple of experiments that didn't come off.

[Kcrimso]

Late seventies is kind of lame period for Camel. On the other hand I surprisingly like Stationary Traveller quite lot. And Rajaz! What a comeback after lots of boring/mediocre stuff. Great album! One of their best ever.

[Squigelyfox]

Late seventies is kind of lame period for Camel. On the other hand I surprisingly like Stationary Traveller quite lot. And Rajaz! What a comeback after lots of boring/mediocre stuff. Great album! One of their best ever.

Totally love 'Rajaz'! Beautiful album.

[Squigelyfox]

Like both albums well enough. Echoes from Breathless is one of my favorites by the band. If you haven't already, I high recommend checking out 'Nude', which I personally like more than either Breathless or ICSYHFH.

Me too.

[eporter66]

This is not my favorite era, but I do love some of the songs that came out. There are other albums where I like everything, and that includes the Camel Production releases. I think "A Nod and a Wink" is one of their finest, and I listen to it often. I wish Guy and Andy had been able to do more together, they seemed to click very well.

Raindances is my favorite late 70's Camel, I think it has the strongest material overall. Breathless I have always struggled with, and I need to go back and revisit it again, but not much from that album ever stays with me. ICSYHFH was one of the first I heard from Camel, and I have a soft spot because Kit plays on it. This one has some great tunes, but is very uneven for me, I love half the songs, the others I can do without. I hope we hear more from Andy in the future in terms of studio recordings, I love his music

[Smörgåsbord]

Rajaz and Nod are solid. Not familiar with their stuff after Raindances (except the Echoes compilation) but "For Today" on Nod is one of my favorite Camel songs, regardless of era.

[Scrotum Scissor]

"For Today" on Nod is one of my favorite Camel songs, regardless of era.

Most definitely one of the finest Latimer creations ever, and IIRC his homage to the person in the "high diver" pic from 9/11. I love the way in which it neither really settles nor necessarily develops - it just lingers and perpetuates motion as emotion. A grand manner of finalizing a recording career, and yet still so subdued and unpretentious.

[strawberrybrick]

Never a fan of the Rhett Davies production on Rain Dances... sounds extremely soulless to my ears. YMMV. I remember those albums (Breathless, Rain Dances, ICSYHFH) as cut-outs back in the day.

But Nude was a real return to form for the band.

[JJ88]

^I don't like the string-synths on Rain Dances. The title track springs to mind- that's a sound I now find very dated.

I think it's just as all over the place as the more maligned Breathless. And on balance I think the peaks on Breathless ('Echoes', 'The Sleeper') are higher.

[Hour Candle]

Don't get me started.. I absolutely love Camel and have been following them for ages really. So many insanely great albums..The first one, Mirage, The Goose, Moonmadness, Rain Dances (love it to bits!), Breathless, ICSYHFH, Nude, Stationary Traveller..(well, even The Single Factor have it's moments), Dust and Dreams, Harbour of Tears, Rajaz, A Nod and a Wink... So much greatness on all of those albums. Their livealbums and DVD's are just superb too. Well, do I have a favourite Camel album? I love them all, but in recent years I have been listening a lot on the Camel Productions releases, especially Dust and Dreams from 1991. In my world, this album might be among Andy Latimer's strongest yet. It's easy to complain about the cheezy drum sound and certain keyboard sounds, but the music..just listen to the music. Sheer brilliance! Andy's guitar sounds better than ever here.

So..before I grab my coat.. Any love for Dust and Dreams??

[moecurlythanu]

^ Too soporific for me, sorry.

[Paulrus]

So..before I grab my coat.. Any love for Dust and Dreams??

I know D&D has a special place for some of us because it was the first new Camel album after we discovered them and became fans. I think the last song to get any US radio play prior to that was "City Lights" from Nude (1981).

Plus it was cool for us in the Bay Area cuz of the album's connection to John Steinbeck and California history, and because Andy and Susan Hoover were living here at the time. I remember Camel playing some local clubs back then and those were great shows.

But yeah -- soporific isn't a bad word to describe the album (or Harbour of Tears, for that matter). I appreciate that Andy was striving to create an ambitious piece of conceptual symphonic rock but it doesn't have the balance that made earlier Camel albums like The Snow Goose work so well. I put it down to the downside of Camel being a one-man band at the time, creatively speaking. Which I remember was a bit frustrating because Peter Bardens was still around and active at the time, just down the freeway in LA.

What a shame that the two of them never worked together again. I always got the sense that Andy was constantly looking for his replacement (or at least Ton Scherpenzeel's) and never found it (possibly til Guy LeBlanc came along).

[Progbear]

^I don't like the string-synths on Rain Dances. The title track springs to mind- that's a sound I now find very dated.

Funny, Pete originally used a Freeman String Symphonizer on Moonmadness, but switched to a Roland RS-202 by Rain Dances. I really can’t tell the difference between most string synths, they all have a rather anodyne sound, but some (like the Crumar Stringman) sound even thinner and cheaper than most.

[strawberrybrick]

So..before I grab my coat.. Any love for Dust and Dreams??

I remember loving this album when it came out. Played it a ton. Haven't in a while, I should revisit it....

[bill g]

Funny, Pete originally used a Freeman String Symphonizer on Moonmadness, but switched to a Roland RS-202 by Rain Dances. I really can’t tell the difference between most string synths, they all have a rather anodyne sound, but some (like the Crumar Stringman) sound even thinner and cheaper than most.

Yeah I used to have a Crumar and thin and cheap pretty much nails it. I remember it was stolen back in the day, and I didn't even really care, perhaps because they also got my Martin D1220 12 string, and that kinda overrode everything else.

[Trane]

never seen this before

[calyx]

Not the best performance of "Lunar Sea" - Pete's Minimoog lets him down, totally out of tune & he has to use the string synth instead...

My favourite versions of this are the later ones with Kit Watkins and Jan Schelhaas exchanging Minimoog leads. Can't get enough of Watkins' Minimoog anyway.

[alucard]

Never been a big fan, but I had bought their records up to raindances and then a couple of the later records on cd . I put last week the 4 Cd compilation Rainbows End on my Mp3 player and I was nicely surprised by some songs that I never heard before mainly from Single Factor and Stationnary Traveller.
Some well constructed songs like Heroes , City Life , West Berlin that remind me Todd Rundgren. A good contrast to the longer tracks like Ice or Echoes who serve mainly as a foil for Latimers solos.