Ok, what's so great about... Steely Dan?

[Teddy Vengeance]

It seems that every rock journalist is required to refer to Steely Dan as 'smart', 'clever', 'thinking man's rock', with further requisite remarks about the 'skillful production'. No pundit dare dis them.
Ok, Riki, Do It Again, and Reelin' In The Years are indeed on a level above 90% of all radio fare from the 70's, with the latter tune containing The Greatest Opening in Rock Music History. But a lot of their other stuff seems to me to be pretty MOR, the production slick to the point of muting the dynamics, a bit emotionally detached, even --dare I say it -- sonically predictable.

So, what makes them earn all the plaudits? Theories, ideas, samples, references please...

[3RDegree_Robert]

I know a pretty well known prog artist who in private conversations with me has sort of hated on Steely Dan. This is a guy who knows theory and can appreciate jazz and rock influenced by jazz and what not but he ain't buying. I love them and appreciate the fidelity of their recordings and their chord vocabulary and melodic sense. Some people are put off by their strange lyrics, the snark of Fagen's singing, etc. I am not.

[Svetonio]

What's so great? If nothing else, Aja is the greatest vocal fusion album and track ever recorded.

[Big Ears]

I agree with the OP that Steely Dan alternate between the catchy and the bland. They have an indefineable something, with Haitian Divorce being annoyingly catchy while having a certain depth too. Gary Katz's production for Love and Money was similar to that of SD; razor sharp in places and wide of the mark in others.

[Baribrotzer]

You could make a case for Steely Dan making a distinctively American version of progressive music. By Gaucho, their work owed little or nothing to British sources - it was slick R&B-pop crossed with jazz, entirely American. They considered themselves to be carrying on the tradition of Duke Ellington, and in some ways they were, by making music that was both highly commercial and artistically excellent. Also, they were progressive within the Big Time Music Business, rather than at loggerheads with it.

[Vic2012]

I love 'm. My favorites are still the first two albums. Aja is my least favorite. Too polished and slick. Give me Can't Buy A Thrill over Aja x1000.

[Zeuhlmate]

I appreciate a few tracks, but generally its too slick & polished for me.
I can enjoy how well executed some of it is, but in my ears it gets a bit library'ish after some minutes.

[Enid]

I appreciate the guitar playing. The guitar solos recorded on their albums over the many years. Particularly Larry Carlton. Once the singer opens his mouth I shut off the player. I also do not prefer their style of writing. In the 80's they were worshipped by many music college youths and at the time it made my skin crawl. Eh...because it was overrated hype. Like some guy with a long white beard sitting on a white puffy cloud instructed everyone to like Steely Dan. Perhaps a lot of people liked them? No no no...it was more like commercial brainwashing. Follow the leader...(so to speak)..... They were fine players but I didn't appreciate their style of writing.

[Plasmatopia]

I had a greatest hits compilation on cassette that I played quite a bit in the late '80s and into the early '90s. A few years ago I found several of their albums on CD for little $$ so I now have a half dozen of the albums proper. I was left feeling that most of the good stuff was on the compilation.

[Sputnik]

I'm a big Steely Dan fan up to Gaucho, but it wasn't always so. Like others, I always found them a bit too slick, and their non-singles tracks to be a bit "bland." I'm not sure where along the way that changed for me.

I'd always had Aja, but when they started coming out on CD I started buying their other albums. My wife liked them a lot, and they were a nice accompaniment to dinner, so we spun the albums quite a bit, and somehow the stuff just started clicking with me in a different way. I started realizing how infectious and interesting a lot of the melodies on these albums are, and how haunting and enigmatic some of the lyrics can be. Dr. Wu from Katy Lied is a great example, that song gets me every time.

So, I can understand some hesitation about these guys. For me, time and exposure got me to appreciate aspects of their music I'd glossed over. I can't say that would be the case for everyone. But I think at heart Steely Dan are songwriters and song-crafters, and the main appeal of their music is ultimately the melodies, coupled with the somewhat cryptic lyrics. Great playing is a plus for some (like me), but I don't think that accounts for most of their popularity.

Bill

[Gruno]

I had a greatest hits compilation on cassette that I played quite a bit in the late '80s and into the early '90s. A few years ago I found several of their albums on CD for little $$ so I now have a half dozen of the albums proper. I was left feeling that most of the good stuff was on the compilation.

Pretty much where I am at with them. Their nicely stacked compilation works well for me.

[Chris Kemp]

I'm a big Steely Dan fan up to Gaucho, but it wasn't always so. Like others, I always found them a bit too slick, and their non-singles tracks to be a bit "bland." I'm not sure where along the way that changed for me.

I'd always had Aja, but when they started coming out on CD I started buying their other albums. My wife liked them a lot, and they were a nice accompaniment to dinner, so we spun the albums quite a bit, and somehow the stuff just started clicking with me in a different way. I started realizing how infectious and interesting a lot of the melodies on these albums are, and how haunting and enigmatic some of the lyrics can be. Dr. Wu from Katy Lied is a great example, that song gets me every time.

So, I can understand some hesitation about these guys. For me, time and exposure got me to appreciate aspects of their music I'd glossed over. I can't say that would be the case for everyone. But I think at heart Steely Dan are songwriters and song-crafters, and the main appeal of their music is ultimately the melodies, coupled with the somewhat cryptic lyrics. Great playing is a plus for some (like me), but I don't think that accounts for most of their popularity.

Bill

I agree that they can be quite moving at times. Things like "Dirty Work" the above mentioned "Katy Lied (Dr. Wu)" and even "Barrytown" and "My Old School" manage to have some emotional resonance that is somewhat askance with their reputation as a clinical band (and I do like some of their slicker stuff, just not all of it). If your wife likes Steely Dan then she's an exception to the "Women Don't Like Steely Dan" truism. My wife can't get past Fagen's voice but I don't think she likes the calculated feel of their later material, either.

As a general rule I like their earlier stuff; especially the first two albums. It's less slick and sounds more like a touring band, which they were at the time. They also were a little more committed to the traditional rock song which isn't always good but in their case I think it helped reign in more of their clinical, snarky tendencies.

[Baribrotzer]

My wife can't get past Fagen's voice.......

He's the most sarcastic-sounding - and looking - SOB this side of Elvis Costello. And perhaps the two are related: Look at any picture of him and, because his upper lip is unusually short, he seems to have a non-stop sneer - but it's just the way his face is made. So I wonder, might that affect the sound of his voice?

[Scrotum Scissor]

Look at any picture of him and, because his upper lip is unusually short, he seems to have a non-stop sneer - but it's just the way his face is made. So I wonder, might that affect the sound of his voice?

Priceless!

It's like that statement from a onetime buddy of mine concerning why he couldn't enjoy Peter Gabriel's voice; "'Cause I get bad culinarian connotations from vocalists who stuff mashed potato down their throat before singing."

[Sputnik]

I agree that they can be quite moving at times. Things like "Dirty Work" the above mentioned "Katy Lied (Dr. Wu)" and even "Barrytown" and "My Old School" manage to have some emotional resonance that is somewhat askance with their reputation as a clinical band (and I do like some of their slicker stuff, just not all of it).

One of the things this thread has done is made me go back and closely read some of Steely Dan's lyrics. I have to say, I've been pretty surprised by some of them that through my own laziness I've never delved that closely into their meanings. Babylon Sisters is a good example. Holy crap, what story. You could make a move out of this song.

Knowing the story increases the depth of my appreciation for the song, and I guess you'd say the "emotional resonance." SD's music sometimes belies what's going on lyrically, as in the case of Babylon Sisters, whose slinky and funky sound contrast with the bleakness and sadness of the lyrics. I imagine a lot of listeners miss some of that depth, and indeed I'm as guilty as anyone of this as I'm discovering.

If your wife likes Steely Dan then she's an exception to the "Women Don't Like Steely Dan" truism.

My wife is an exception to a lot of musical truisms about women, but then she's a musician as well.

As a general rule I like their earlier stuff; especially the first two albums. It's less slick and sounds more like a touring band, which they were at the time. They also were a little more committed to the traditional rock song which isn't always good but in their case I think it helped reign in more of their clinical, snarky tendencies.

I tend to be the opposite, though I like the first two albums a lot. I think Katy Lied might be my overall favorite, but Aja and Gaucho are right up there. As I said before, the reunion stuff never did much for me, the music just didn't have the same "pizzaz" to my ears, though admittedly some of the vocals/lyrics/melodies were quite good.

Bill

[klothos]

I like them because they are one of those bands where the sum of the parts equals the output (most of the time)...They are one of those "band of players" bands that dont make everything sound like an exercise in self-indulgence

[Rune Blackwings]

The Cuervo Gold and the fine Columbian

[Guitarplyrjvb]

Love all of the music from the Dan, including Fagen's solo material. Becker's, not as much. Great playing, writing and singing on all of their albums. My favorite from them is "The Royal Scam". Kid Charlemagne and Green Earrings are sublime.

[Vic2012]

I'm a big Steely Dan fan up to Gaucho, but it wasn't always so. Like others, I always found them a bit too slick, and their non-singles tracks to be a bit "bland." I'm not sure where along the way that changed for me.

I'd always had Aja, but when they started coming out on CD I started buying their other albums. My wife liked them a lot, and they were a nice accompaniment to dinner, so we spun the albums quite a bit, and somehow the stuff just started clicking with me in a different way. I started realizing how infectious and interesting a lot of the melodies on these albums are, and how haunting and enigmatic some of the lyrics can be. Dr. Wu from Katy Lied is a great example, that song gets me every time.

So, I can understand some hesitation about these guys. For me, time and exposure got me to appreciate aspects of their music I'd glossed over. I can't say that would be the case for everyone. But I think at heart Steely Dan are songwriters and song-crafters, and the main appeal of their music is ultimately the melodies, coupled with the somewhat cryptic lyrics. Great playing is a plus for some (like me), but I don't think that accounts for most of their popularity.

Bill

Good post. For me it's mainly the songs and vocals/harmonies as well, and the great guitar work. I also love how they use vibraphone and steel guitar on the earlier albums, ala Razor Boy from Countdown To Ecstacy.

[progeezer]

IMHO the question "What's so great about Steely Dan?" can definitively be answered by another question, "Are you f*****g kidding me??".

[rcarlberg]

IMHO the question "What's so great about Steely Dan?" can definitively be answered by another question, "Are you f*****g kidding me??".

Yeah, totally. Steely Dan and The Police -- two bands I can appreciate as being very successful in decoding what makes a hit, and then using their not-inconsiderable musical skills to write a lot of hits. On purpose. With no higher goal than to get rich doing it.

In both cases, I feel like I'm listening to a a corporation that ought to sell shares to their "product."

[jkelman]

Yeah, totally. Steely Dan and The Police -- two bands I can appreciate as being very successful in decoding what makes a hit, and then using their not-inconsiderable musical skills to write a lot of hits. On purpose. With no higher goal than to get rich doing it.

In both cases, I feel like I'm listening to a a corporation that ought to sell shares to their "product."

And this is totally untrue in both cases. Yes, they were looking for success - and if anything, the Police's egos got the best of them, which is not the case with Dan) - as were many groups. But both groups also innovated, in their own ways. How many guitarists and groups tried to incorporate the sound of the Police, in particular Andy Summers' guitar tone? The Dan were a bit harder, as you needed to have a broader understanding of harmony.

But as successful as both groups were, neither sounded to me, ever, like product. And if a band's true measure of success can be the influence they had on the music world, then how can that be product? At least IMO.

Heck, in the '70s, Elton John would check out the top 40 chart to see what was appealing to the larger public, to help him write his songs. Was it calculated? Yes. Was it, at least for the first half decade or so of his career, "product"? I sure don't think so, when you look at albums like Madman Across the Waters, Honky Chateau, Tumbleweed Connection and Goodbye Yellow Brick Road.

[No Pride]

IMHO the question "What's so great about Steely Dan?" can definitively be answered by another question, "Are you f*****g kidding me??".

Exactly!

But hey, nothing's for everybody.

[Edwin333]

IMHO the question "What's so great about Steely Dan?" can definitively be answered by another question, "Are you f*****g kidding me??".

You read my mind, brother Steve!

Truely unique American rock-funk-pop-jazz-r&b band.
Exquisite musicianship, song writing, and engineering.

[Vic2012]

The Cuervo Gold and the fine Columbian

It's Colombian, not Columbian.