Coincidence or Theft?

[JKL2000]

A similar descending chord progression can be found on Rick Wakeman's 'Judas Iscariot'- it's on church organ too so somewhat closer to Lloyd Webber's 'Phantom...'. But it is indeed a fairly common one, I'd have thought- don't know why Waters was so put out by it (see the very savage ALW reference on 'It's A Miracle'!).

Maybe because shows like Cats sucked yet he made a fortune from them and was Knighted - people were Amused to Death. People call him Android Webber.

[ronmac]

Echoes preceded Phantom Of The Opera, yes, but from what I gather, Webber claimed the bit in question was actually an allusion to something from Jesus Christ Superstar, which I believe preceded Echoes.

Hmm, off-hand, I can't think of a similar bit in JCS. I wonder which part he was referring to.

[grego]

1974 (from the musical "The Magic Show"), go to :51 :



1976, go to 6:39 :

Yep, absolutely the same theme.

[JKL2000]

Yep, absolutely the same theme.

To be fair, the second "phrase" of the Lion Tamer song is a little different, but whenever I hear this part of the Genesis song I think of the song from The Magic Show, which you heard a fair amount when the show was a hit -- I'm guess it was on things like "The Mike Douglas" show.

[JKL2000]

1974 (from the musical "The Magic Show"), go to :41 :



1976, go to 6:39 :

Yep, absolutely the same theme.

BTW, I've updated my original post with the Broadway version of Lion Tamer.

[GuitarGeek]

Have we mentioned yet the Yes version of Richie Havens' No Opportunity Necessary ("or whatever it was called" as Bill Bruford once called it)? The instrumental bits are lifted directly from a western called The Big Country. If you've ever seen the movie, you'll recognize the hijacked material instantly.

Bruford also claimed that Yours Is No Disgrace was appropriated from the Bonanza theme, but I think he had his American western TV show mixed up. If I remember correctly, Big Valley had a similar staccato cadence as the beginning of Yours Is No Disgrace, so I'm thinking maybe that might have been where...whoever it was in the band who came up with that intro got it from.

Cream's Tales Of Brave Ulysses (and White Room, for that matter), I believe uses the same unconventional chord progression as Lovin' Spoonful's Summer In The City.

Didn't Tony Banks admit somewhere that after he wrote Afterglow, he realized he had unintentionally purloined the melody from Have Yourself A Merry Christmas?

[Zeuhlmate]

"Beware the Ides of March" borrows a theme of the fugue of "Toccata and Fugue in D minor" by Johann Sebastian Bach (Bach BWV 565), but most people hear it as borrowing from Procul, Harum: A Whiter Shade of Pale.

[GuitarGeek]

"Beware the Ides of March" borrows a theme of the fugue of "Toccata and Fugue in D minor" by Johann Sebastian Bach (Bach BWV 565), but most people hear it as borrowing from Procul, Harum: A Whiter Shade of Pale.

I thought the Bach piece that A White Shade Of Pale was based on was Air On A G String. Or at least, it's the same chord progression, and I think the first couple notes of the organ line are the same.

[moecurlythanu]

I thought the Bach piece that A White Shade Of Pale was based on was Air On A G String.

Is that a Jordan groupie reference?

[Zeuhlmate]

I thought the Bach piece that A White Shade Of Pale was based on was Air On A G String. Or at least, it's the same chord progression, and I think the first couple notes of the organ line are the same.

I think you are right: J.S.Bach’s Air from his Orchestral Suite No. 3 BWV1068

[Zeuhlmate]

1976


1977

Grossmann seems to have 'lifted' some of the theme.

[Progbear]

Compare the guitar intro to the Beatles’ “Dear Prudence” to the guitar intro here:



And compare the “Sun is up, the sky is blue...” bit to the “Sun comes up on a windy day...” bit from this: