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Thread: Wakeman WILL attend RRHOF Induction; snubs Howe, White, Bruford in the process

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazland View Post
    Absolutely. It is also entirely possible that to reach number 2 as a highest chart position for Drama required a damned sight less in sales than a highest chart position of 4 for Relayer. By the time Drama was released, album sales were declining.

    Whilst Yes were still a successful band in 1980, bearing in mind they did sell out five nights at Madision Square Gardens on that tour, it is absolutely undoubtedly the case that the high water mark for album sales worldwide was the period 1972 to 1977. The decline began with Tormato, which, although a very good selling album, was nowhere near the level of its predecessors. Drama did not arrest that decline.

    I would also wager a very huge amount of money that sales of the "classic" albums are still way above anything released since, and including, Drama.
    Indeed. I was very impressed with Drama when I first heard it (2004-ish) and still am, but it's not as popular as some think. Is it really true that the US tour was pre-sold before it was even announced that Anderson and Wakeman had left?? The UK tour by that band was infamous- I heard Fish say on his radio show that the gig he saw on that tour was the most hostile he'd ever attended.

    As for Tormato, it was by far their weakest up to that point but it sold well enough. The tour was a massive success, some fans feeling that was their all-time peak as a live act.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Indeed. I was very impressed with Drama when I first heard it (2004-ish) and still am, but it's not as popular as some think. Is it really true that the US tour was pre-sold before it was even announced that Anderson and Wakeman had left?? The UK tour by that band was infamous- I heard Fish say on his radio show that the gig he saw on that tour was the most hostile he'd ever attended.

    As for Tormato, it was by far their weakest up to that point but it sold well enough. The tour was a massive success, some fans feeling that was their all-time peak as a live act.
    Oh yes, I was at the show in Lewisham (south London) and quite a few insults were shouted out to Horn - my first Yes gig - and last until 1984 which wasn't really Yes at all..

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by lazland View Post
    Absolutely. It is also entirely possible that to reach number 2 as a highest chart position for Drama required a damned sight less in sales than a highest chart position of 4 for Relayer. By the time Drama was released, album sales were declining.
    You mean album sales in general in 1980? No, they were not declining.


    Whilst Yes were still a successful band in 1980, bearing in mind they did sell out five nights at Madision Square Gardens on that tour, it is absolutely undoubtedly the case that the high water mark for album sales worldwide was the period 1972 to 1977. The decline began with Tormato, which, although a very good selling album, was nowhere near the level of its predecessors. Drama did not arrest that decline.
    Based on what? Drama looks like it sold about as well as Relayer, Going for the One and Tormato based on charting.

    I would also wager a very huge amount of money that sales of the "classic" albums are still way above anything released since, and including, Drama.
    90125 sold 4 million albums, far more than any other Yes album.

    I bet Big Generator outsold Relayer, GFTO, Tormato, and Drama.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by yamishogun View Post
    You mean album sales in general in 1980? No, they were not declining.




    Based on what? Drama looks like it sold about as well as Relayer, Going for the One and Tormato based on charting.



    90125 sold 4 million albums, far more than any other Yes album.

    I bet Big Generator outsold Relayer, GFTO, Tormato, and Drama.
    Union might have outsold them as well. Shockingly enough...
    Prog's Not Dead

  5. #105
    Member zravkapt's Avatar
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    I think everything from TYA to Union sold well on both sides of the pond. Talk probably had the lowest sales since Time And A Word. The reissues of the '70s albums have probably sold more than all the post-Union albums combined.
    The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by miamiscot View Post
    Union might have outsold them as well. Shockingly enough...
    If you heard about this in the pre Internet era you would have auto bought it, no?

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by chescorph View Post
    If you heard about this in the pre Internet era you would have auto bought it, no?
    Exactly what happened. I was so excited. Bought it the day it came out. One of the biggest let-downs ever!!!
    Prog's Not Dead

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Is it really true that the US tour was pre-sold before it was even announced that Anderson and Wakeman had left??
    Some of the US tour (but not the later parts) went on sale before it was announced that Anderson and Wakeman had left (and probably before Howe/Squire/White were sure they had).

    Henry
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
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  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by yamishogun View Post
    90125 sold 4 million albums, far more than any other Yes album.

    I bet Big Generator outsold Relayer, GFTO, Tormato, and Drama.
    Reliable sales figures are hard to come by. We have chart positions and the record of Gold awards in various countries. Beyond that is much harder to find. However, take a look at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.music.yes/soundscan$20henry%7Csort:relevance/alt.music.yes/wQ36gx-2kXw/Rc4GUB-kpMgJ To repeat the key points here, these Soundscan sales figures as of Sunday, 30 Nov 1997. Someone kindly sent them to me. Soundscan at the time covered around 2/3 of all US sales, I think. Figures were collected from 1991 (although I don't know from when in 1991 or what coverage was like earlier on). Where release dates differ from the original album release date, they are re-releases. I've marked the 1994 re-masters. Where there are multiple releases of the same album, I've also added combined figures in (( )).

    * = Record label code
    ** = Format: Album, Video, Single

    Album Band Release Sales

    UNION YES ARI A 04/30/91 423163
    90125 YES EEG A 07/07/87 364028
    (( _Classic Yes_ total 204725 ))
    TALK YES POL A 03/22/94 199191
    CLASSIC YES YES ATLG A 07/07/87 147707
    FRAGILE YES ATLG A 07/19/94 140709 remaster
    HIGHLIGHTS-VERY BEST OF YES ATLG A 09/21/93 119993
    CLOSE TO THE EDGE YES ATLG A 07/26/94 97687 remaster
    YES ALBUM YES ATLG A 07/19/94 88451 remaster
    (( _Yessongs_ total 76658 ))
    BIG GENERATOR YES EEG A 07/07/87 72126
    (( _YesYears_ total 68876 ))
    YESYEARS YES EEG A 08/06/91 67577
    CLASSIC YES YES ATLG A 09/06/94 57018 remaster
    KEYS TO ASCENSION YES CMC A 10/29/96 55281
    YESSONGS YES ATLG A 07/07/87 50592
    RELAYER YES ATLG A 07/26/94 45768 remaster
    (( _Tales from Topographic Oceans_ in total 43717 ))
    TORMATO YES ATLG A 07/26/94 43448 remaster
    GOING FOR THE ONE YES ATLG A 07/26/94 42169 remaster
    (( _Drama_ in total 37690 ))
    (( "YesYears" video in total 37603 ))
    YESYEARS (video) YES EEG V 10/01/91 36304
    YESSTORY YES EEG A 09/15/92 27522
    TALES FROM TOPOGRAPHIC OCEA YES ATLG A 07/07/87 26119
    YESSONGS YES ATLG A 08/20/94 26066 remaster
    DRAMA YES ATLG A 07/07/87 24584
    (( _Yesterdays_ in total 23767 ))
    (( _Yesshows_ in total 17765 ))
    TALES FROM TOPOGRAPHIC OCEA YES ATLG A 09/06/94 17598 remaster
    (( _Yes_ in total 17121 ))
    GREATEST VIDEO HITS YES EEG V 06/25/91 16886
    (( _Time & a Word_ 16316 ))
    YESTERDAYS YES ATLG A 07/07/87 15505
    YESSHOWS YES ATLG A 09/20/94 15450 remaster
    FRAGILE/CLOSE TO THE EDGE YES ATLG A 07/07/87 13850 ???
    DRAMA YES ATLG A 09/06/94 13106 remaster
    OPEN YOUR EYES YES BYND A 11/25/97 12516
    KEYS TO ASCENSION II YES CLEO A 10/21/97 12449
    LIFT ME UP YES ARI S 05/28/91 11114
    YES YES ATLG A 07/07/87 9012
    TIME & A WORD YES ATLG A 09/06/94 8291
    YESTERDAYS YES ATLG A 09/06/94 8262 remaster
    YES YES ATLG A 09/13/94 8109 remaster
    TIME & A WORD YES ATLG A 01/01/87 8025
    9012 LIVE-THE SOLOS YES ATLG A 07/07/87 7891
    TWELVE INCHES ON TAPE YES EEG A 07/07/87 3794
    YESSHOWS YES ATLG A 07/07/87 2315
    9012 LIVE video YES EEG V 01/01/89 1735
    (( _YesYears_ album + video combo 1299 ))
    YESYEARS CD/VIDEO YES EEG A 10/01/91 1183
    (( "Yessongs" video total 532 ))
    YESSONGS video YES UAV V 12/01/89 327
    YESSONGS video YES IMGE V 08/03/92 205
    1969-1970 SOMETHING'S COMIN YES PID A 10/14/97 127
    YESYEARS CASSETTE/VIDEO YES EEG A 10/01/91 116

    These figures represented only one week's sales of Open You Eyes and it had already overtaken Keys 2, which had been available slightly longer.

    Henry
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
    Blogdegezou, the accompanying blog: http://bondegezou.blogspot.com/

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    ** = Format: Album, Video, Single

    Album Band Release Sales

    UNION YES ARI A 04/30/91 423163
    90125 YES EEG A 07/07/87 364028
    (( _Classic Yes_ total 204725 ))
    TALK YES POL A 03/22/94 199191
    CLASSIC YES YES ATLG A 07/07/87 147707
    FRAGILE YES ATLG A 07/19/94 140709 remaster
    HIGHLIGHTS-VERY BEST OF YES ATLG A 09/21/93 119993
    CLOSE TO THE EDGE YES ATLG A 07/26/94 97687 remaster
    YES ALBUM YES ATLG A 07/19/94 88451 remaster
    I don't get this. Union outsold 90125??

    What are the units? The number sold?

  11. #111
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    Weird numbers but I couldn't help but notice Relayer outselling Drama.

    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    Some of the US tour (but not the later parts) went on sale before it was announced that Anderson and Wakeman had left (and probably before Howe/Squire/White were sure they had).
    Even 'some' is good enough for me- part of me wondered if this story was one of those 'if it's a choice between the truth or the legend, print the legend' kind of things but no. Wow, that's a special kind of chutzpah!

  12. #112
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamishogun View Post
    I don't get this. Union outsold 90125??

    What are the units? The number sold?
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    Figures were collected from 1991 (although I don't know from when in 1991 or what coverage was like earlier on).
    I'm sure most of the sales for 90125 came before 1991.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  13. #113
    Member Mikhael's Avatar
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    Oh. So these figures are from only 1991. Well, that makes more sense.
    Gnish-gnosh borble wiff, shlauuffin oople tirk.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
    Oh. So these figures are from only 1991. Well, that makes more sense.
    Exactly. They give no guidance whatsoever to total Yes album sales over the years. It is a snapshot.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
    Oh. So these figures are from only 1991. Well, that makes more sense.
    How is that possible when there is albums listed that are released AFTER 1991?
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    How is that possible when there is albums listed that are released AFTER 1991?
    The list only goes back to 1991. It wasn't created in 1991.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    The list only goes back to 1991. It wasn't created in 1991.
    Clearly stated, from sometime in 1991 through late 1997:

    These Soundscan sales figures as of Sunday, 30 Nov 1997. Someone kindly sent them to me. Soundscan at the time covered around 2/3 of all US sales, I think. Figures were collected from 1991 (although I don't know from when in 1991 or what coverage was like earlier on).

  18. #118
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    The list only goes back to 1991. It wasn't created in 1991.
    Yup. And these are sales figures from the 1991 to 1997. Not ONLY 1991.
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  19. #119
    Anyway, I think it is obvious that Going for The One, Tormato and Drama sold about the same based on the charts. Throw in Relayer as well.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    FRAGILE/CLOSE TO THE EDGE YES ATLG A 07/07/87 13850 ???
    I think I might have had this double cassette. That is why the sales are so low.

  21. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Weird numbers but I couldn't help but notice Relayer outselling Drama.
    Well, 38,000 for Drama v. 47,000 for Relayer - pretty close!

  22. #122
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    I know I was just starting my deep dive into Yes around Union time, and bought large chunks of their catalogue in CD in bulk... and then much of it a second time when the remasters came out.

    I remember there being a long wait for Tormato and Yesshows... I had to go Japanese import for those discs. Loved the exotic packaging!

  23. #123
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impman View Post

    I remember there being a long wait for Tormato and Yesshows... I had to go Japanese import for those discs. Loved the exotic packaging!
    Yes! I had the same experience!
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Yes! I had the same experience!
    I did hate how Ritual was edited into two tracks, with the fade-out and fade-back-in.

    I remember thinking, due to the YESSHOWS release date (1980), that it was actually the DRAMA lineup performing these songs, which fueled my (morbid?) curiosity to buy it. Obviously, I knew the second I popped the cassette in the ol' Walkman this was not the case.

  25. #125
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    Yesshows will in fact fit on one CD, but it's on two. And 'Ritual' is still split into two tracks although at least there's no gap. I'd love the rest of that Cobo Hall show...the non Moraz material on Yesshows is not that essential IMHO, it's all short songs which mostly aren't that different from the studio ones.

    My feeling is that it may have been felt that Yes was over and done with when Yesshows was put together.

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