Proto prog thread

[Zeuhlmate]

True "proto" is really hard to quantify - in some ways harder than full-on "prog". To me, it involves both a sense of infinite possibilities, and an unpolished quality (at least compared to later "prog"). But those are, as S.S. says, two sides of the same coin: the experimentalism leads to over-reaching of a dozen kinds, and to a willingness to forgive oneself for trying too hard to transcend one's own abilities. The commonest form of that is probably recording and releasing improvisations by musicians who don't have the chops to even be poor jazz musicians, but there are many kinds of not-quite-successes.

Proto-prog is often inspiring because it isn't perfect, or trying to be.

[arabicadabra]

Uh.... I thought Proto Prog was prog songs about feet?

[saucyjackstl]

I have it on a Japanese edition that I bought in the early 90s. Sounds great, imo.

Want to sell it?

[TheH]

Although not really released at the time Baba Scholae's album 69 is my favourite Early Prog record-

[mogrooves]

Proto-prog is often inspiring because it isn't perfect, or trying to be.

I think of "proto" as a kind of ur-Prog, a music still in a state of becoming rather than being, though this view is admittedly problematized by matters teleological.

Uh.... I thought Proto Prog was prog songs about feet?

Only Public Foot The Roman.

[hippypants]

Yeah, hard to decide where psych stops and prog starts, but I might mention these bands:

Blood, Sweat, & Tears first album, arguable I know, but influenced other horn bands like Lighthouse etc.
Audience
Forever More--Yours and Words on Black Plastic, I always favored their 1st one (Yours)
Maybe Asylum Choir too.
Sugarloaf--Self Titled w/Green Eyed Lady

[moecurlythanu]

Want to sell it?

I only sell spares. Besides, for my taste, it's an essential album.

[Lino]

^ For fans of proto prog, I highly recommend Linos radio show The Waiting Room every Friday morning from 10-12

http://cfmu.msumcmaster.ca/

Thank you Chris. I do have a very sizable chunk of that list of a 100 for sure. Featured often. Cheers bro.

[Svetonio]

Sadly missed early Deep Purple...

[mogrooves]

Forever More--Yours and Words on Black Plastic, I always favored their 1st one

Agreed.

[Baribrotzer]

Proto-prog is often inspiring because it isn't perfect, or trying to be.

Good way to put it.

There's an almost "punk" approach to proto-prog. Except that instead of musical novices for whom the point is that they're making music at all, the point is that they're decent musicians trying to punch far above their weight. Tim Smith always made a point of describing the Cardiacs as "psychedelic" rather than "prog", and I wonder if that's what he was getting at - that he saw them as a sort of updated proto-prog. They did usually tend toward a certain ragged quality, were never slick, and even when they sounded relatively polished, Tim's voice was never anything but a squawking yelp.

[Trane]

Yeah, hard to decide where psych stops and prog starts, but I might mention these bands:
Audience

Well if Gnidrolog would belong to the final list, I'd tend to include Audience in there as well

[enigmatic]

Many years ago, PE member Mogrooves put together a stellar top 100 proto prog list and I saved it!!!

Annual proto-prog thread, I see. How nice...
Just for the record, Mogrooves didn't put this stellar top 100 proto prog list together. There was 15 of us. I remember very well, because I counted the votes. :-)
It was a poll. We couldn't agree who should, who shouldn't be included in the list, so we voted at the end: 1-5 scale, 0 for albums we didn't know or shouldn't be included.
I still have the final results. I can post them here if anyone is interested to see them.
Chris - I always thought you were part of the poll, don't you remember, about 11-12 years ago?

Anyone recall why we didn't include Aardvark?
Also, IMO Deep Feeling should be on this list. I remember seeing and reading nicely written review of this album by Lev on old PE.

[nosebone]

Annual proto-prog thread, I see. How nice...
Just for the record, Mogrooves didn't put this stellar top 100 proto prog list together. There was 15 of us. I remember very well, because I counted the votes. :-)
It was a poll. We couldn't agree who should, who shouldn't be included in the list, so we voted at the end: 1-5 scale, 0 for albums we didn't know or shouldn't be included.
I still have the final results. I can post them here if anyone is interested to see them.
Chris - I always thought you were part of the poll, don't you remember, about 11-12 years ago?

Anyone recall why we didn't include Aardvark?
Also, IMO Deep Feeling should be on this list. I remember seeing and reading nicely written review of this album by Lev on old PE.

Yes, I remember being part of the poll etc. etc., but I do also recall it was mogrooves who saved the list and brought it out again five years later.

[moecurlythanu]

Agree about Aardvark and maybe on Deep Feeling.

I have to wonder why Graphite and Gygafo didn't make the cut. Grannie is another possible inclusion.

There are more, I'm sure.

[mogrooves]

Just for the record, Mogrooves didn't put this stellar top 100 proto prog list together.....

Just for the record, credit where credit is due, a few of us--Jim, Midnight-to-Six, and myself--compiled the list....

Just for the record....

[Svetonio]

Iron Butterfly's first 4 albums (Before Metamorphosis)

Although "proto-prog" sound is mostly English stuff, it could be detected in the U.S. and European countries too.

[Svetonio]

Sadly missed early Uriah Heep...

[Scrotum Scissor]

Well if Gnidrolog would belong to the final list, I'd tend to include Audience in there as well

Oh no. they were sympho-lympho all along.

As for Uriah Heep, they were one of my very favorite bands from the age of 12-14. I believe I had 19 albums. Today I regard them as one of the worst rock groups I've heard.

[Svetonio]

Oh no. they were sympho-lympho all along.

As for Uriah Heep, they were one of my very favorite bands from the age of 12-14. I believe I had 19 albums. Today I regard them as one of the worst rock groups I've heard.

Symphonic rock or Progressive rock (sympho-rock is a sub-genre of progressive rock), Gnidrolog couldn't be "proto-prog" due to lack of heavy guitars and - as a general rule that the band got "proto-prog" tag - due to lack of "greasy" Hammond organ sound. On the other side, early Uriah Heep has that "proto" sound. Here should be say that back in the day, in the early 70s, Uriah Heep were regarded as PROGRESSIVE ROCK band >>> https://geirmykl.wordpress.com/2014/...-april-15-1972 *
"Proto-prog" as a term wasn't existed before the mid-seventies, when those pre-internet records dealers invented the term in favour to mark above mentioned distinctive sound.
Of course, now you can call "proto" whatever you want, but at least you should know from where that term is taken.
Btw, "The illustrated New Musical Express Encyclopedia of Rock" (Salamander Books, 1976, by Nick Logan and Bob Woffinden) says about Uriah Heep that the band "is imitating Led Zeppelin", and that the Uriah Heep was "mocked by critics" regarding the debut album, but also on the occasion of their second release. Very funny to me because I saw in the seventies both Uriah Heep (for the first time in 1977 in Belgrade) and that, according to then-critics, "the ultimate heavy-metal band" Led Zep, in 1979 at Knebworth Festival, and Uriah Heep were much better.


*
"Heep may not be rated with the best progressive bands in Britain, but abroad – certainly in Germany – they are. Recently in a conglomeration of European magazines they were voted No. 1 underground band and No. 2 band for the future. And last year they sold more albums in Germany than any other band. But one would assume they would prefer more attention here."
(...)
While Heep undeniably fall into the progressive band tag – unlike other groups who are tagged with that label they don`t just go on stage and rely on a lead guitarist or a sweaty drummer, grimace at the audience and look miserable."

Julie Webb, NME, April 1972



p.s. Happy New Year!

[Scrotum Scissor]

Yup.

[Scrotum Scissor]

^

JJ, for me it was the sense of revelation in adventure of "fantasy rock" back when I discovered 60s/70s music and found them a fitting relief from the blues-based orthodoxy of the other UK hard rock groups of the day. My sister liked them, mostly due to boyfriends who were in bands and introduced her to stuff not normally collected by youngsters in Norway in the late 70s and early 80s.

I can still take portions of UHeep, but some of their songs (including their so-called "classics") are truly amongst the worst and most clichéd attempts at "artistics" I know of. And that analogy of Byron's voice akin to someone comming out as aphrodite when drowning in a lake jus thaven't left me. All traits are welcome, but only if the artist him/herself controls it. Still, was Don van Vliet aware of his own madness? Or was that very unawareness the exact spectacle of relating to it?

I'm listening to "Paradise/The Spell" right now; this was my fave back then, and it's still a very fine work. But I remember dreadfully those events of UHeep/Box (whom I belive to be a genuinely fantastic guy!) concerts during the 90s. Not for me anymore, I'm afraid - though never aschewing their overall influence on things. I mean, where would the wonders of power-metal be without Heep and Rainbow?

[100423]

When I'm in the mood for "Big Dumb Rock", Uriah Heep hits the spot as well as any other band.
And I've been listening to a lot of BDR lately...

[nosebone]

Uriah Heep were fun when I was 13,like a low rent Deep Purple.

Fantasy rock is a good description, although I never filed under proto prog.

[Enid]

Had mostly everything on Nosebone's list. All fine bands no doubt! Shame I personally dread the sound of an organ. Strange intruding dislike of mine. I like the organ sound on T.A.A.B. and C.T.T.E., but not the dominant presence of organ on early 70's Proto Prog recordings. Many of these bands were unique and so sad that I allowed that aspect to deny my tolerance for the organ sound. Whatever problem I have with that sound I'm sure they have a name for it and pills to cure it. In other words I get the asshole of the year award, but IMHO these bands were outstanding and very creative. A fine list!