Altamont festival 47 years ago today

[Supersonic Scientist]

Now this seems like several lifetimes ago......

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-h...0ad51740324a36

[JKL2000]

Classic show man, that was awesome!

[Dave (in MA)]

[progeezer]

The only music festival known more for murder than for music.

Sorry, but I'll always see Altamont that way.

What the fuck could the Airplane have been thinking when they continued playing AS THEY ALL WATCHED someone beaten to death?

[viukkis]

What the fuck could the Airplane have been thinking when they continued playing AS THEY ALL WATCHED someone beaten to death.

But that's not really how it happened, was it? Meredith Hunter got killed during the Stones' set, and Marty Balin was actually knocked out by the Hell's Angels during the Airplane's set after he took offence at them beating up the audience with pool cues.

[Dave (in MA)]

The guy who was killed was wacked-out on meth and was wielding a gun. The Stones were unaware of the killing until after the show.

[JJ88]

The impression I get from the Gimme Shelter film is that it was a mess all round...the only real surprise is that it wasn't even more of a bloodbath. It feels like it was far too hastily arranged to have been some kind of Woodstock 2.

The reason The 'Stones at least kept playing was because they feared a riot if they stopped. The Grateful Dead decided to give it a miss (on camera) after hearing what had happened to Marty Balin.

[progeezer]

You're right, it was the Stones on stage when it happened, sorry. I have read interviews in the past with Airplane members that they were scared shitless and both Paul & Jack actually watched Marty getting attacked but felt helpless. I remember Kantner's quote that "I never wanted to see real cops more in my life, but knew we wouldn't".

[JKL2000]

SCTV did a great parody of Gimme Shelter, I think called Gimme Jackie, where Jackie Rogers Jr is the headliner and security is provided by Shriners. Needless to say, it's...funny stuff.

[GuitarGeek]

I think the best part of the whole debacle where the Hell's Angels who were subsequent sent to "deal" with Mick, apparently because Sonny Barger was upset that he publicly blamed the Angels for what happened. At the time, Mick was living in a beach house, and so the Angels decided they were going to approach via a boat. Unfortunately, they either didn't bother checking the maritime weather report, or else the idiots chose to ignore it, and their boat capsized in a storm.

(under breath) Jackasses. No wonder the FBI keeps "hassling" them.

[Rune Blackwings]

I give the Airplane credit for at least trying to do something. The bad ass (idiot) part of that was Balin finally came to, is back on the stage and being escorted away when apparently someone says or does something he did not like and was ready to go at it again.

The thing I gathered from reading on Altamont is that there are different chapters of Hell's Angels (obviously) and each of the chapters act fairly independent and very differently from each other. The Grateful Dead suggested using Hell's Angels as security at the shows, but the Dead dealt with the San Francisco chapter of Hell's Angels, who were more "laid back" than most chapters. The Stones hired a Los Angeles chapter, who were extremely aggressive and I believe another chapter showed up, which caused problems because apparently the various chapters do not necessarily like one another.

[JJ88]

^The 'Stones had the Hell's Angels at their UK free festival show at Hyde Park in the same year. That was said to be very peaceful and had a good atmosphere (aside from the spectre of Brian Jones' death only days before hanging over the show). I guess they thought all of the US Hell's Angels would be the same as the British ones.

Some of the crowd were a little worrying, too- remember that guy who just punched Mick Jagger in the face??

[GuitarGeek]

^The 'Stones had the Hell's Angels at their UK free festival show at Hyde Park in the same year. That was said to be very peaceful and had a good atmosphere (aside from the spectre of Brian Jones' death only days before hanging over the show). I guess they thought all of the US Hell's Angels would be the same as the British ones.

There seems to be a lot of different versions of exactly what happened, how things were planned, etc.

Yes, the Stones apparently used a group proclaiming to be "Hell's Angels" as security at Hyde Park, but these guys apparently weren't actually affiliated with the US Hell's Angels, but rather that just "enthusiasts" who admired the American biker culture. Sam Cutler, who was the Stones tour manager says the theory that the Stones didn't know what the "real" Hell's Angels were like is a complete canard foisted by the press. Rock Scully, one of the Dead's managers remembers explaining the matter to Culter, vis-a-vis the difference between the UK Angels the "real thing".

The thinking that members of different rival Angels chapters showed seems to be true. Apparently, it was originally the San Francisco chapter who were hired, but Sonny Barger (who came off as a total dick even 30 years later when he was interviewed on VH-1 about Altamont) was apparently in charge of the Oakland chapter. Barger's suggested that he was told by people from "one of the other chapters" about the plan.

Apparently, they were never meant to be a security force but merely to watch over the Stones' equipment, and specifically the power generators, but they were moved to the front of the stage because "things were getting out of control". The Angels had no intent on being security guards, because "We're not police, we've never been police, and we don't have any intention of being police", but the job was kind of pushed on them at the last minute, with no further instructions about how to keep the audience off the stage. Add $500 worth of beer (which Sam Cutler says he personally paid for and was never reimbursed) to that powder keg, and it was gonna be a mess no matter what.

Then apparently the Angels really got upset when someone knocked over one of their motorcycles.

Some of the crowd were a little worrying, too- remember that guy who just punched Mick Jagger in the face??

To say nothing of Meredith Hunter, who as has been said was armed, and the autopsy found methamphetamine in his system. Several witnesses say they were sure he was intending to harm somebody, if not Mick or one of the other Stones, than surely someone else there. The case against Alan Passaro, the Angel who stabbed Hunter, was dismissed under the grounds that he acted in self defense.

I've forgotten who it was in the Stones, I think either Charlie Watts or Bill Wyman, who was asked what he learned from Altamont, and his reply was "Don't do free concerts in the States!".

[Digital_Man]

Maybe the angel who stabbed Meredith was acting in self defense but what about the others who were beating people with pool cues? I read a book a few years ago called something like "Rolling Stones and the death of the sixties"(very good book btw) which mostly centered on the last year of the sixties and especially the death of Brian Jones. However, there was a section about Altamont in there and I remember the author saying many of the hell's angels were beating people with pool sticks. At one point Mick Jagger said something to them about controlling chicks and not needing to do that. I don't remember reading anything about Mick Jagger being punched. It was Martin Balin who was punched(and apparently knocked out). Altamont will forever be known as the "anti woodstock."

[GuitarGeek]

Maybe the angel who stabbed Meredith was acting in self defense but what about the others who were beating people with pool cues?

What about it? You're talking about two different things there. What happened to Meredith Hunter was tragic, but unavoidable, given the circumstance. Apparently, his mother tried suing The Stones for some outrageous amount of money, as if it was their fault her son got hopped on drugs and went to a concert with a gun in his pocket.

But as I said in my earlier posts, the whole thing was a great big debacle. The Angels were all drunk, and were unwillingly put on a job that they were probably unprepared for in the first place. They were was a lot of antagonism between them and the crowd, and things just got worse and worse as the day wore on.

And the other line you hear a lot of times is, "Their leaders weren't there", whatever the frell that's supposed to mean. Presumably, if three or four key "higher ups" in whichever Angels faction had been present, things might have been a little different. Of course, that begs the question, "Where the frell were these 'leaders', if they weren't around to make sure their junior members weren't getting in trouble?!"

At the end of the day, The Stones messed up bad by not hiring proper professional security guards, and also by underestimating the possibility that things could get that out of control that fast. In that regard, I think maybe Mick and company, or at least their managers, should have been held responsible for some of the stuff that happened (such as a pregnant woman who got hit in the face with a beer can, which fractured her skull).

But yeah, the Angels acted like a bunch of assholes all day long, especially after one of their bikes got knocked over. As I said, they were clueless about crowd control, and if you believe what Sonny Barger and other Angels have claimed, they didn't want to be act as security in the first place. Of course, that again begs the question, why would they take the job if they didn't really want to do it in the first place. (shrug)

I don't remember reading anything about Mick Jagger being punched.

It happened when Mick first arrived at Altamont. Somebody leaps out of the crowd and punches Mick, as he's being escorted to the trailers that they were using as their backstage area. You can see it happen in Gimme Shelter.

It was Martin Balin who was punched(and apparently knocked out).

The story Marty Balin tells is that an Angel was beating up a guy in front of the stage while Jefferson Airplane were playing. He figured he could "take" the Angel, so he jumped off the stage, and pulled the asshole off the guy. He said he then got hit from behind, and woke up in an ambulance with boot prints all over him.

Another story I remember hearing from one of the audience members was that the Angels were using their motorcycles to make the crowd move back say to keep them away from the stage or to create a path in the crowd for the musicians to move through. This guy says there was a surge from behind that shoved him forward, causing him to fall against one of the motorcycles. So one of the Angels grabbed and was about to beat the hell out of him when he realized he was just a kid, so instead he just shoved the guy back into the crowd. I wonder what he would have done if he hadn't been "just a kid".

Like I said, a bunch of assholes. And if the assassination plot story is true, a bunch of stupid assholes, at that.

[JJ88]

I don't remember reading anything about Mick Jagger being punched.

So you've never seen Gimme Shelter then. Don't need to 'read' anything, it's there on film! NOT during The 'Stones performance, as has been noted above, it's when he arrives and this guy just comes out of nowhere screaming 'I hate you' or whatever it was. Mick Jagger refused to press charges over this incident, which was very good of him considering.

The whole thing is a horrible, horrible mess. Mercifully the film does also feature some tremendous footage of them in MSG (this was used for the ...Ya Ya's album, and more is on the DVD) and listening to playbacks of 'Brown Sugar' (on acetate) and 'Wild Horses'.

[Rune Blackwings]

Lesson to be learned: never use the guys the Mafia hires to run drugs and do murders for hire as your security crew


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