Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 38

Thread: AAJ Review, King Crimson, On (and Off) The Road

  1. #1

    AAJ Review, King Crimson, On (and Off) The Road



    My review of King Crimson's 19-disc On (and Off) The Road, documenting its game-changing '80s lineup, today at All About Jazz.

    Sometimes the best music--and some of the best bands--are those that come from the most difficult of births. When King Crimson co-founder/guitarist Robert Fripp had the idea for a new band after dissolving the last incarnation of the '70s-era Crimson lineups seven years prior, it was a completely new concept and, with the exception of returning drummer Bill Bruford, a totally revised lineup.

    Gone were the mellotrons and symphonic leanings of old. In their place: technological advancements including nascent guitar synthesizers, electronic drums and a strange-looking 10-or 11-stringed instrument called the Chapman Stick--a tapped instrument that allowed its player to function more pianistically; not only holding down the all-important bottom end, but also becoming a simultaneous melodic and/or chordal foil.

    Conceptually, Fripp's idea for this new group--initially called Discipline and performing its first gigs under that moniker--was based on a burgeoning interest in combining Gamelan-informed concepts with minimalist tendencies and an innovative approach to interlocking guitar parts that virtually reinvented what was, by then, a most common instrumental configuration in rock music: two guitars, bass and a drums. But with Fripp and Bruford joined by Frank Zappa, David Bowie and Talking Heads alum guitarist/singer Adrian Belew and bassist Tony Levin--whose résumé includes everyone from rock and pop stars like John Lennon and Paul Simon to jazz artists including Gary Burton and, perhaps most significantly, ex-Genesis singer Peter Gabriel, who'd begun an increasingly successful solo career in 1977--and it was immediately clear that this was no conventional rock lineup.

    Beyond Fripp's extant reputation for technical mastery, stylistic breadth and musical innovation, and Bruford's intrinsic ability to build complex polyrhythmic underpinnings that often included mixed meters performed, miraculously and simultaneously with his various limbs, Belew brought his own inventive, boundary-stretching sonics, an idiosyncratic approach to soloing that stretched the limits of his instrument (not unlike Fripp...but, at the same time, totally different), and a fine voice; while Levin's bass work brought power, finesse and unshakable strength to the bottom end, with his use of Chapman Stick allowing him to maintain that important role while, at the same time, engaging with Fripp and Belew almost as a third guitarist. Add to that Levin's own vocal capabilities, which brought harmonies to the group--prior Crimsons never had proper backup singers, with the minor exception of drummer Ian Wallace, who brought occasional backup vocals to the lineup responsible for King Crimson's 1971 album Islands (reissued in an expanded and remixed 40th Anniversary edition by Panegyric Records in 2010)--and Discipline seemed to be a group truly overflowing with unlimited potential.

    Continue reading here...

  2. #2
    You wrote King Crimson 1969-1997 is now fully documented... I wouldn't mind a box set covering the Poseidon/Lizard/Islands era!
    Last edited by Cyberian Cat; 11-13-2016 at 11:02 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberian Cat View Post
    King Crimson 1969-1997 is now fully documented you say... I wouldn't mind a box set covering the Poseidon/Lizard/Islands era!
    Well, there mustn't be much additional material from the sessions, and what little decent live material has already been issued. I agree it'd be great...but I don't think there's much to use that hasn't already been used.

    Of course, I could be wrong...and if so, I'd be all over that one!!

  4. #4
    Another fine review; thanks for posting John.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberian Cat View Post
    You wrote King Crimson 1969-1997 is now fully documented... I wouldn't mind a box set covering the Poseidon/Lizard/Islands era!
    Not sure that would be a good idea. I think the 40th Anniversary Editions of those albums covered all the additional material from those sets. And I agree with John Kelman's view that the "Double Duo" era of Crimson (with 5.1 remixes of "TCOL" & "TPTB" plus extras) would make a good box set.

  6. #6
    Maybe there's no unreleased material in the vaults, but why not a box set with everything in one place? There's some stunning live recordings from this era! (Not everyone was a member of the KCCC)

  7. #7
    Excellent review as usual John.

    Of the various boxes so far, I don't expect to revisit this one as often as the others. But I agree it is kind of the definitive statement on that era of the band.

    I'd personally not likely jump on an Islands-era box, mostly because I used to be a KCCC member (plus the Ladies of the Road set) and have just about all the early 1972 live KC I would want. But I would REALLY like to see a set with the TCoL/TPtB eras. I'd especially love a disc doing something comparable to THRAKATTACK using the improvs from the 2000 tour. It might also be interesting to have a more expanded take on the various ProjeKcts.
    If you're actually reading this then chances are you already have my last album but if NOT and you're curious:
    https://battema.bandcamp.com/

    Also, Ephemeral Sun: it's a thing and we like making things that might be your thing: https://ephemeralsun.bandcamp.com

  8. #8
    As always, you're nothing if not thorough. Just to be nitpicky: Ian McDonald also sang backup in 1969, albeit rarely (mainly "I Talk to the Wind" IIRC). I don't recall "Nuages" having anything to do with snow either...

    That aside, though, the insights are much appreciated. I agree it shows every reason for the Double Duo to get a similar treatment. I'm still on the fence about this one, but that commentary on the video is really making me tilt toward the box....

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Iowa City IA
    Posts
    2,453
    Nice review. I enjoyed reading your perspectives. But I am still not convinced that I need this. I was a KC completist through the mid-00s with the KCCC and all that. If my quick math is approximately correct, I own over 80% of the material on this box. And the material I have sounds just fine. I can't imagine for example how Absent Lovers could sound much better than it does now. I don't need to see Frejus or ToaPP in Japan on Bluray. These show are not going to be clearer or sharper than the old video they were shot on.

    It's tempting, I know... I'm sure it is really a nice box. I've been tempted by several of the previous boxes too, but I'm glad I held back. Life is just too short to keep buying the same stuff over and over.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberian Cat View Post
    Maybe there's no unreleased material in the vaults, but why not a box set with everything in one place? There's some stunning live recordings from this era! (Not everyone was a member of the KCCC)
    Well, the question is, since 40hs have been released of all three albums, with as much bonus material (not talking live recordings) as was available: does the label believe it can sell enough of them to recoup the considerable cost of compiling and manufacturing such a box...and, at the very least, make a small profit?

    Again, I don't know the answer to that...only time will tell. But are there really enough live shows of the Islands band - since it was the only 70-72 lineup to tour - to justify such a box, since the bonus studio stuff is already out there?

    Again, only time will tell...but I'm not optimistic. But, yet again, I could, of course, be mistaken!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    Excellent review as usual John.
    And thanks, as usual, for the kind words...

    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    It might also be interesting to have a more expanded take on the various ProjeKcts.
    Along with a COL/TPTB box, which I'd love to see...this is a very good idea!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiral View Post
    As always, you're nothing if not thorough. Just to be nitpicky: Ian McDonald also sang backup in 1969, albeit rarely (mainly "I Talk to the Wind" IIRC). I don't recall "Nuages" having anything to do with snow either...
    Thanks for this and you are, of course, correct. Will fix later today, with thanks! Re: Nuages, oops! It's clouds, dammit (senior moment, ok? )… but thanks for that catch...will also fix that, again with thanks ... I really do appreciate hearing from guys like your good self, as I want the piece to be as clean and accurate as possible.

    So many thanks!!

    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    That aside, though, the insights are much appreciated. I agree it shows every reason for the Double Duo to get a similar treatment. I'm still on the fence about this one, but that commentary on the video is really making me tilt toward the box....
    I don't think you'd regret picking up this box. It really is terrific...plus it's great that Fripp was upfront, in publishing the diary entries, that this was not an easy band to birth...or continue, for that matter. And Sid Smith's liners are, as always, a revelation.

    Cheers!
    John

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by arturs View Post
    Nice review. I enjoyed reading your perspectives.
    Thanks!!

    Quote Originally Posted by arturs View Post
    But I am still not convinced that I need this. I was a KC completist through the mid-00s with the KCCC and all that. If my quick math is approximately correct, I own over 80% of the material on this box. And the material I have sounds just fine. I can't imagine for example how Absent Lovers could sound much better than it does now. I don't need to see Frejus or ToaPP in Japan on Bluray. These show are not going to be clearer or sharper than the old video they were shot on.
    First, Absent Lovers is improved...sharper, crisper, more present...especially in the higher res version. The videos are very good, but it's the alternate camera angle videos that have not previously been issued (about 150 mins) plus the Alabamahalle TV broadcast, that make the box worth having for the video alone. At least, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by arturs View Post
    It's tempting, I know... I'm sure it is really a nice box. I've been tempted by several of the previous boxes too, but I'm glad I held back. Life is just too short to keep buying the same stuff over and over.
    Each to their own, of course. But I do think these boxes provide value and insight into the various lineups, and so are very much worth it. Had I not reviewed them I'd still have bought them.

    But I hear ya...and respect your viewpoint.

    Cheers!
    John

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow Jester View Post
    Another fine review; thanks for posting John.
    And thank YOU, for reading...and for your supportive words.

  15. #15
    Member Mascodagama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    7th Circle of Brexit
    Posts
    2,170
    Excellent review, thanks. One tiny typo, That Which Passes, Passes Like Clouds, not like Snow, I believe. Nuages / Neige, easy to do.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    are there really enough live shows of the Islands band - since it was the only 70-72 lineup to tour - to justify such a box, since the bonus studio stuff is already out there?
    There's a good quantity of live material that DGM already mixed/mastered for download, and that band had a lot more improv than the 80s group. OtOH, the buyers who know and appreciate that are the ones most likely to have bought the downloads already. They could re-remaster some of the recordings as they've already done with some others, but it's hard to tell how much that would change the appeal. There's no video, the Islands 5.1 has already been out for years... the selling point for any such box would have to rely on the fact of hardcopy-v-digital and possibly putting more things in high-def sound. I don't envision that making a huge difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    I don't think you'd regret picking up this box. It really is terrific...plus it's great that Fripp was upfront, in publishing the diary entries, that this was not an easy band to birth...or continue, for that matter. And Sid Smith's liners are, as always, a revelation.
    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    it's the alternate camera angle videos that have not previously been issued (about 150 mins) plus the Alabamahalle TV broadcast, that make the box worth having for the video alone.
    That's very encouraging... and the mrs. is a particular fan of Belew, so maybe this would help make the case. We'll see.

  17. #17
    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    42°09′30″N 71°08′43″W
    Posts
    6,295
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiral View Post
    As always, you're nothing if not thorough. Just to be nitpicky: Ian McDonald also sang backup in 1969, albeit rarely (mainly "I Talk to the Wind" IIRC).
    And don't forget Jakko's future father in law taking the occasional lead vocal during that era. (Travel Weary Capricorn)

    Looking forward to reading the remainder of the review once I hit the link.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    And don't forget Jakko's future father in law taking the occasional lead vocal during that era. (Travel Weary Capricorn)
    Did he now? I don't think I ever knew that (then again, I've never heard "Travel Weary Capricorn"). Interesting.

  19. #19
    I vote projekcts box next.

    and although construkction of light was said to not be getting the treatment power to believe was always part of the plans so we should at the very least be getting a cd dvd edition of it someday in the future maybe before the 50th so we can finish off the 40th series before it is too ridiculous...

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mascodagama View Post
    Excellent review, thanks. One tiny typo, That Which Passes, Passes Like Clouds, not like Snow, I believe. Nuages / Neige, easy to do.
    As per earlier post I think (or was it elsewhere?): yes, a brain cramp or senior moment (as I approach 61 I take entitlement to use that term!), but just back from being out and plan to fix.

    But thanks for the catch!

    Cheers!
    John
    PS: Both the "Snow" gaff and inaccuracy by not mentioning Ian McDonald's backup vocals have been fixed. Thanks, again, to the posters who identified one or both of the errors/inaccuracies...I really do rely on you guys to keep me straight!!

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiral View Post
    There's a good quantity of live material that DGM already mixed/mastered for download, and that band had a lot more improv than the 80s group. OtOH, the buyers who know and appreciate that are the ones most likely to have bought the downloads already. They could re-remaster some of the recordings as they've already done with some others, but it's hard to tell how much that would change the appeal. There's no video, the Islands 5.1 has already been out for years... the selling point for any such box would have to rely on the fact of hardcopy-v-digital and possibly putting more things in high-def sound. I don't envision that making a huge difference.
    Neither do I

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiral View Post
    That's very encouraging... and the mrs. is a particular fan of Belew, so maybe this would help make the case. We'll see.
    Good luck!!

  22. #22
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    9,882
    I enjoyed the review John!

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by mozo-pg View Post
    I enjoyed the review John!
    Glad to hear, thanks for letting me know!

  24. #24
    Great review John!

    I'm loving the box set so far. However, it's really adding to my regret that I never saw this group live. I discovered the band just after the 84 tour.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by g.bremer View Post
    Great review John!

    I'm loving the box set so far. However, it's really adding to my regret that I never saw this group live. I discovered the band just after the 84 tour.
    Well, at least there's plenty of video content for those who never saw this incarnation....

    And thank you, as always, for the kind words about the review. It's much appreciated...from everyone....

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •