Cool as ale.
Cool as ale.
"Dem Glücklichen legt auch der Hahn ein Ei."
Must buy
Kinda funny how everyone is dumping on Starostin here - the guy was HUGELY influential in the music I got into as a teenager. I got a King Crimson CD on a tip and from there it was sites like that one (and Mark Prindle, and John McFerrin, and whoever else there was) that helped me discover the rest.
THAT SAID - I've revisited some of his reviews the last few years and I agree - he doesn't really seem to know what he's talking about when it comes to anything that doesn't fit his idea of what a great album has to be. I avoided Gentle Giant and VdGG for years on his suggestion and later came to realize how dead wrong he was. As irritating as the Cardiacs review is, try finding the Autechre ones on his old site - not only implying that the fans don't know why they like 'em, but straight up saying the group themselves just randomly throws things together to make their music sound complex and inscrutable. So yes..fuck...that
Critter Jams "album of the week" blog: http://critterjams.wordpress.com
There are a number of people here who seem to reflexively attack anybody who writes negative reviews about an album that they like.Originally Posted by JAMOOL
That said, I've noticed that George Starostin has some fairly large gaps in music styles that interest him (which, as a consequence, he also doesn't really know much about) - the entire genre of jazz being one of them - but that never stopped him from reviewing anything, because tries to review everything.
It's not so much that the review is negative, but rather how he comes across. Like others have said, he implies that the fans don't even know why they like Cardiacs and asserts that their compositions are randomly thrown together -- he's wrong, on both counts.
He's welcome to dislike whomever he wants. But the precious writing and continual jabs just because he doesn't like it, well, that's something I have no time for.
Yep that's exactly it. His old site was full of that kind of strawmanning..."fans must love it for the image/illusion of complexity/to sound smarter than everyone else"
Critter Jams "album of the week" blog: http://critterjams.wordpress.com
I really like that cover Rose Kemp vs Rarg does of Wind and Rains Is Cold on "Leader of the Starry Skies - A Tribute to Tim Smith" - well... all of it is pretty friggin awesome. That one stuck out - such a cool interpretation.
That STG review, my goodness! I've no problem with the guy not liking it & giving it a bad review - it's the 'opinion as fact' approach that grates. That said, the few I've attempted to introduce Cardiacs to have turned their collective noses up - 'they're a joke band' and 'it's just The Young Ones theme over and over again' being a common theme.
I don't know - maybe those of us who're hit like a ton of bricks by this music are just wired differently.
I'm sure that some of this is directed towards me, and probably rightly so. The reviewer at hand can have his say, and I can have mine. When he offers us his "wisdom" with blanket statements such as "Contains zero percent substance" and other bollocks, well its not gonna go unanswered. Ultimately, it doesn't matter either way, so its not a big deal.
I think Sterbus posted his review of Guns, but honestly I'm not gonna read it this time.
Actually, no - I was trying to go broader than just this thread.
That Fiery Gun Hand cover was fucking nuts.
The acapella one?
Steve F.
www.waysidemusic.com
www.cuneiformrecords.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin
Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]
"Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"
please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.
A question I ask myself after reading reviews like that... "could I write a song like that?" With my minimal music comp knowledge - not even an option... not even close... NO WAY. That music is way beyond what I could conjure up... and then playing it live like they did? Yeah... go ahead and poop on it, morons.
Yeah!
Yes, I posted the "Guns" review on the Cardiacs Facebook page, this time without quoting anything and letting the people decide by themselves...
As I previously said, this guy started in february reviewing an album by Cardiacs per week... one by one, the were all bad, and I was asking myself "why is he doing this? maybe he love some later albums and then we will understand something more about it all!" but then the Sing to God review appeared, and I think it was fine by me too have it shared with the world.... also, this didn't go unnoticed, because Starostin himself wrote under his StG review, answering to a lot of commenters....
We seem to be breaking the record - 23 comments and more than 1000 views in two days, and all because of one lousy thumbs down to a perceivably classic (but still cult classic) record.
Anyway, I believe I owe some sort of collective response. Let me single out some statements in the above comments to reply to, then:
"You're making straw-man arguments about why fans love the band...": I wish the fans were capable of providing me with enough material so I wouldn't have to resort to 'straw-man arguments'. Unfortunately, neither elsewhere nor here have I managed to encounter one proper account of what it is the fans love about this album, other than the same repetitive statements about how it has so many ideas and how they are brilliant because there's so many of them.
"...and far too many assumptions about Smith's intentions". Nope. I assume his intentions were noble and ambitious, and if you are disagreeing with this, well, why do you care about the record in the first place? I just do not think the actual music matches the ambitions.
"I think he may have o.d.'d on Cardiacs before he even got to SING TO GOD." Yes, that is highly likely. I do not see this record as a radical departure (or, in fact, any departure) from what they were doing before - and considering how long it is, that's twice the problem.
"You appear to see Tim a"s a fraud who writes and records his music purely to piss people off, reveling in all those who look at him in disgust." Not necessarily. For all I know, he may be perfectly sincere in everything that he is doing, which does not automatically make him a genius. Likewise, they may well be having fun - indeed, I can easily imagine how recording and playing this kind of music (as opposed to listening to it) can be fun, just according to the "because we can" principle.
"You just don't enjoy it, which is fine. You just haven't explained why very well." Well, I have tried to do my best to explain that this music carries no emotional charge whatsoever - because it is far more preoccupied with its complexity and unpredictability. That's the way it goes with my reactions. If yours are different, excellent. But, I repeat, nobody ever talks about emotional affection by Cardiacs records - because, I suspect, very few people show any, and I am hardly alone in this.
"I do not trust blog writers who cannot spell judgment." For the record, 'judgement' IS the proper spelling. If we want to be picky about it, 'judgment' is an orthographically abbreviated and etymologically unjustified American variant.
http://only-solitaire.blogspot.com/2...ng-to-god.html
(the comments are now 49)
Well, after reading these comments, I feel comfortable stating that angry Cardiacs fanboys are pretty much the same as anybody else's angry fanboys - the cumulative effect of their whining over a negative review is way worse than anything the actual review did.
And wouldn't it be nice if we could retire forever the "well, could you do any better?" rebuttal to negative criticism? One need not know how to make a pizza to know if a pizza tastes like shit.
I've said it before, but it is worth saying again and it might generally hold true (and I am generalising here, for hsits & giggles) that amongst Cardiacs fans there are two distinct groupings regarding STG, each with sub-groupings with variations
1. Those old guard fans who were fans long before STG, often since the first cassette album in 81, and consider STG to be their least favourite album, if only sonically, as opposed to not liking the lyrics and music. Also often true of this grouping is that they have come to Cardiacs via new wave, punk, post-punk, synth and Neo. I.e. they have been fans of bands like Squeeze, XTC, Devo, Kraftwerk, Stump, Bauhaus, Stranglers, Madness, PIL, Joy Division, Spandau Ballet, Elvis Costello, Kate Bush, Lene Lovich but also late period Genesis, Marillion, Pallas, Twelfth Night etc.
AND
2. Those who "found" Cardiacs post-STG, who generally love it, and who are still struggling to really appreciate the early punkier Cardiacs. Also often true of this grouping is that they have come to Cardiacs via indie pop, post-rock, post-folk, freak-folk, avantgarde and RIO I.e. they have been fans of bands like Henry Cow, Oingo Boingo, Mr Bungle, The Residents, Zappa, Magma, SGM, 5UUs, Bob Drake, Joanna Newsom etc.
I belong to group 1.
That is my learned observation, based on coming up to 30 years of listening to Cardiacs, and close to 30 years reading the reviews of Cardiacs music and views of Cardiacs fans and talking to Cardiacs fans.
And although certain albums work well in both groupings i.e. OLAITS, ALMAAHATWWW, SFS&I, Live, Rude Bootleg, Sea Nymphs.
Group 1 tends to prefer The Seaside and HB&EB
AND
Group 2 tends to prefer STG and Mares Nest
Discuss
Last edited by PeterG; 04-26-2016 at 04:45 PM.
Group 2 --- I LOVE the early straighter punk era. I definitely came from the Zappa, Bartok, Henry Cow, Doctor Nerve line... and it helped me recognize the pure bliss of the music - my problem was getting past the singing and chanting sound... but now I adore the hell out of it. Its a huge part of the music. I dont know composition and how this stuff is ultimately achieved... but I dont need anyone to tell me why I get all apeshit excited when I hear it - it just slays me every time now. I have really come to love everything. No preference for me - put anything on and I'm captivated. I HAD to make that avatar in homage because it might be one of the best album covers ever too.
Is there a group 3 who came late and generally love everything, and can appreciate Sea Nymphs along with The Seaside as much as StG?
That's me. I honestly can say I love it all.
So, 123 pages later how is Frippster's familiarly with the band's catalog coming along?
Has he started yet? How's it coming along?
He is so sorry he asked....
Steve F.
www.waysidemusic.com
www.cuneiformrecords.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin
Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]
"Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"
please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.
If he has yet to start all I can think is, "Shake a leg!".
What was the question again?
That is so cool - thanks!
BTW, an a cappella cover version of the entire "Sing to God" album will be coming out sometime next year. That's what it says here, anyway:
https://soundcloud.com/david-minnick...ardiacs-covers
Last edited by at least 100 dead; 04-27-2016 at 02:48 AM.
"Dem Glücklichen legt auch der Hahn ein Ei."
It's tiny Bob Leith, pretty as a picture.
Shall, shall we beat him senseless?
"Dem Glücklichen legt auch der Hahn ein Ei."
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