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Thread: Online radio broadcasting

  1. #1
    Member davis's Avatar
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    Online radio broadcasting

    I'm just about to the point of choosing an online service, or software, to broadcast online 24/7. Everything I have is saved at 128 kpbs and I'd like as many potential listeners as possible; even unlimited. Can anyone here recommend either a service or software for this purpose?

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    Member claycorn's Avatar
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    winamp shoutcast

  3. #3
    Member davis's Avatar
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    I've looked at that but don't know how it works

  4. #4
    Hey Davis

    For a long while I'd had the same idea- to start my own online radio show. (I gather that's what you want to do too, right?)
    I asked around on social media, but didn't get too much useful feedback. But I did read a lot on blogs & other forums etc. Have you read about the big, sweeping changes to the rules on web casting as of this past January?

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    Member davis's Avatar
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    I have not. Where is that available?

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    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    I'm not sure this is what Rickenbacker was referring to, but the royalty rates have gone down by a third. You WERE planning on paying royalties, right?

  7. #7
    Here's one link with a general rundown:
    http://www.billboard.com/articles/bu...s-explained-fa

    And this article. There's a lot more. Check on various webcaster forums. These new rules/fees have put a lot of US webcasters out of business. Even Live365 folded.
    I noticed it's mostly college & foreign webcasters that are still at it. Otherwise, I was warned that if you play copyrighted music, they will find you. No matter how small your operation is. I'm selling my mic. Never had a chance to use it.
    http://www.radioworld.com/article/sm...ncrease/278279

    * re-edit with 2nd article

  8. #8
    Member davis's Avatar
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    It'd be good to pay royalties, but the main thing is to broadcast the music, getting a lot of people exposed to the music.

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    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    It's good to pay royalties -- some might even say necessary -- but that means monetizing your broadcasts somehow (unless you're rich). The new rules have put many(most?) broadcasters who do it for fun out of business.

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    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    I don't want to piss on the OP's parade, but it's likely very few people are going to tune in to hear your broadcasts. It's a nice thought, but internet radio peaked a while ago and is steadily declining in interest and essentially a bit of a masturbatory exercise for the broadcaster. If you actually want an audience, try joining one of the established 24/7 stations as a DJ. Also, getting involved with a tradional radio station with established outreach can get you some listeners.

    Fwiw, I produced a few of my own shows "back in the day" several years back.
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  11. #11
    Member davis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    You WERE planning on paying royalties, right?
    do you belong to the royalty police? just curious, since the question seems insistent.

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    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    Royalty Police??? - Really? Is it absurd to give the artist what they created the music for in the first place - what they deserve? Do they not havethe right to set a value on their work?

    I hope you dont play anything by me. I know you wont, but shit. This is the problem isnt it? Someone wants to "get involved" by providing something for free that the artist has spent part of his/her life creating. Why? So they feel like they are doing good. Why not just hand out music for free and people will like you and go to your website to get free stuff. No harm, no foul right? Give away what someone is trying to sell, and it makes you look like a good guy. But the Artist doesn't see you in that light.

    Its not all about you. I'm sure your motives are pure, but if you dont pay royalties, you are hurting, not helping the artist. "Hey everyone, check out this artist. I really like them. Here have a copy of my podcast and you can pass it on to your friends. We will spread the news about this great artist!" And the artist stops releasing music, because there is no money to be made. Just ask Daltrey why he wont release any new material...

    Thanks but no thanks. It is a fact that no one pays for what they can easily get for free.

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    Member davis's Avatar
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    My understanding is that different services pay artists different %'s royalties. I have no problem paying royalties, but I would hope that people I want to play would find an audience who goes to their sites and buys stuff that wouldn't have if they hadn't heard them. I've done it, so I know there are people who do that. I have no idea if I have anything of yours. What's your 'artist' name?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    I don't want to piss on the OP's parade, but it's likely very few people are going to tune in to hear your broadcasts. It's a nice thought, but internet radio peaked a while ago and is steadily declining in interest and essentially a bit of a masturbatory exercise for the broadcaster. If you actually want an audience, try joining one of the established 24/7 stations as a DJ. Also, getting involved with a tradional radio station with established outreach can get you some listeners.

    Fwiw, I produced a few of my own shows "back in the day" several years back.
    What he said. I did a show for about 2 years on Progressive Soundscapes. When the royalty laws got ridiculous, Progressive Soundscapes shut down. There are still a few stations still out there. To be honest though, most shows don't have more than 15-20 listeners. I think the most my show had at any one time was about 32, and that one I promoted with 5 giveaway CDs.
    It was fun to get on chat with people.

    There were about a dozen people that consistently chatted on Friday nights during Epic Prog with The Lurker (Michael Citro). I discovered a lot of great music during those years.

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    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davis View Post
    do you belong to the royalty police? just curious, since the question seems insistent.
    You originally asked about the ins and outs of starting an online broadcast. Paying for the content you broadcast is one big part of that -- in fact possibly the most important factor to consider for someone just deciding whether or not to start a broadcast.

    I don't think my comments were out of line.

  16. #16
    Member davis's Avatar
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    I only asked about a service or software for broadcasting. I think I got my answer form claycorn. thanks

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    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    Royalty Police??? - Really? Is it absurd to give the artist what they created the music for in the first place - what they deserve? Do they not havethe right to set a value on their work?

    I hope you dont play anything by me. I know you wont, but shit. This is the problem isnt it? Someone wants to "get involved" by providing something for free that the artist has spent part of his/her life creating. Why? So they feel like they are doing good. Why not just hand out music for free and people will like you and go to your website to get free stuff. No harm, no foul right? Give away what someone is trying to sell, and it makes you look like a good guy. But the Artist doesn't see you in that light.

    Its not all about you. I'm sure your motives are pure, but if you dont pay royalties, you are hurting, not helping the artist. "Hey everyone, check out this artist. I really like them. Here have a copy of my podcast and you can pass it on to your friends. We will spread the news about this great artist!" And the artist stops releasing music, because there is no money to be made. Just ask Daltrey why he wont release any new material...

    Thanks but no thanks. It is a fact that no one pays for what they can easily get for free.
    Wow, soapbox much?

    Sorry to be blunt, but the moment someone told me I'd have to pay in order to play music on an Internet station to a handful of people (especially with the purpose of exposing that music to an audience), is the moment I say "fuck off".

    But that said, the reason I quit is because the audience was thinning. I liked doing it and had my fans and frequent listeners but I didn't feel like I was making a difference which was my motivation.
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  18. #18
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davis View Post
    I only asked about a service or software for broadcasting.
    Okay sorry -- just because you were asking beginner's questions I had no right to assume you hadn't researched why so many other internet broadcasters quit this year.

  19. #19
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    Wow, soapbox much?

    Sorry to be blunt, but the moment someone told me I'd have to pay in order to play music on an Internet station to a handful of people (especially with the purpose of exposing that music to an audience), is the moment I say "fuck off".

    But that said, the reason I quit is because the audience was thinning. I liked doing it and had my fans and frequent listeners but I didn't feel like I was making a difference which was my motivation.
    So I understand. You take music of bands you like, and create a "show" where You can attract advertisers to help pay for the entertainment value you are providing them. You may write to artists asking them for a demo, so you dont have to actually pay for the music you are playing. People listen, and can record your show, or download podcasts of it, and you think the artist will want to thank you? If they dont, you would tell them to "fuck off" - I believe is the term you used. You really understand the reason why artists pay thousands of dollars to release music to the public, dont you? Perhaps you can draw a little picture of a pirate flipping off the artists you are playing and put it on your webpage....

    Yep, Here I am standing on an old crumbling dilapidated soap box with a cheap microphone that smells like limburger cheese through which you can hear me screaming out:

    "YOU AREN'T MAKING A DIFFERENCE!"

    Music is headed for the dumpster, and people getting free music isn't helping anyone. You can tell me my music sucked and thats why it didnt sell, but there's a lot of my music out there that wasnt paid for. Pirate bay alone showed over 5000 downloads after only 2 months with that POS pirate clown flipping me the bird. Yeah, thanks for lots and lots of free advertising for me.

    I the meantime, I spent real dollars I earned with my day job, putting ads in magazines and sending out demos to reviewers, that showed up for sale on used CD sites, advertised as "still wrapped". (now thats a real "Irony")

    I get it. Its a tough world, and its not worth putting out music right now. Not for me and thousands of other musicians who have called it quits.

    Newsflash: No one needs to see a menu once they have eaten.

    I'll stick to writing and producing music because I enjoy it. Music as a commodity is a joke. People who are still releasing music for sale are either established, or they haven't gotten the punchline yet. A new upcoming artist releases music, and its ignored, or its spread out so people can hear it for free. I myself have heard music, and then bought it. But thats a minority thing. Kinda proud of that.

    I hear there are places to distribute music. But its not indie internet radio doing the work. Its the Artist. Most just don't have the stomach for it any more.

    Those of you still paying for your music - thank you. all others.... Thanks for all the lovely, helpful "advertising".

    Yes, I am jaded, and I have learned my lesson.

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    ^^^
    It is a damn shame that it's so hard to make a living no matter the quality or quantity of your output. It is in part a digital death wrought by pirates and leaches no doubt - I fully understand your anger.

    From where I sit if one is out to make a profit then fair royalties are without question due and anything less is outright F'ing theft. However, if one is doing it out of the love of exposing music that would not otherwise be heard with no profit motive whatsoever, then that's another kettle of fish, although it's a fine line to walk. I for one have absolutely purchased music based on what I've heard on podcasts and from downloads. If I like something I downloaded I buy it, if not I don't keep it anyway. I went on a buying spree in the early days of the internet in fact because I was exposed to so much music that was impossible to hear before without buying it. I freely admit to keeping downloads of friend's vinyl rips and items that have never been re-issues and are only available at great expense and searching on eBay etc. Tough titty - I sleep at night (despite the snoring).

  21. #21
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    FOR MYSELF: Of course Im one of the folks that subscribes to the "New Business Model" so not making any royalties on any indi airplay is expected at my level as an original artist (Just for the record so as to not start a jab war: I PREFER the old business model -- but, like everything else on the planet, the music industry evolves and mutates -- I choose to roll with the punches instead of fighting it in an uphill battle that is solidly saturated with artists all looking for their tiny slice of the pie)....To the planet, Im a musical nobody so its hard for me to justify demand$ for music I make independently if there isnt any demand for it to begin with -- thats just basic supply/demand economics...its also just being a realist and keeping my feet on the ground

    I get the "Art" part, and I get the "Suffering Artist" part all too well (Lawd knows I do), but I also make music and music's entire reason for existence is "to be heard".... Plus, I don't have ego enough to clutch my music against my chest like Gollum saying "My precious"................

    Its up to each artist to discern what is "success" for themselves....For some, an actual "reward" (money, etc) determines their success as an artist. My interpretation for artist success for myself is much much simpler: If by some miracle my projects catch on and/or go viral then I'd like to recoup more but, at this point, success for me is if people just hear it and like it.

    $.02 YMMV
    Last edited by klothos; 09-06-2016 at 11:46 PM.

  22. #22
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    So I understand. You take music of bands you like, and create a "show" where You can attract advertisers to help pay for the entertainment value you are providing them. You may write to artists asking them for a demo, so you dont have to actually pay for the music you are playing.
    Hey, don't presume to know MY experiences. Advertisers? LOL, that's a good one. I mean to think that.... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...oops, sorry lost myself there.

    Writing for a demo album? Never did that in my life EVER. I was provided a few though from some artists that wanted me to listen and perhaps play their music.

    That's what I meant by soapbox. You're just pissed off and taking it out on whomever.

    And I didn't say I'd tell a specific artist to fuck off (which is how you read it), but there's no way that I would pay out of my pocket personally (if I was forced to by an organization) in order to DJ shows as I previously described above.

    And yes, I had several people thank me for playing their music. It happened ALL the time. And if an artist ever had a problem with me playing their track (which NEVER happened), I would have kindly remove it. Because that is what we do in a polite or civilized society living in the digital age and with the contexts that go with it.

    Your view is antiquated, but hang on to it. If it's one thing proggers are good at it's living in the past.
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  23. #23
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Oh crap! I just realized I'm still doing it. I put up that featured CD and used a YouTube clip. Come to think of it, we have been doing that for years.

    OMG, come to think of it, this whole damn site is FULL of YouTube links. They are everywhere! Holy hell!

    #pirateears
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  24. #24
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    FOR MYSELF: Of course Im one of the folks that subscribes to the "New Business Model" so not making any royalties on any indi airplay is expected at my level as an original artist (Just for the record so as to not start a jab war: I PREFER the old business model -- but, like everything else on the planet, the music industry evolves and mutates -- I choose to roll with the punches instead of fighting it in an uphill battle that is solidly saturated with artists all looking for their tiny slice of the pie)....To the planet, Im a musical nobody so its hard for me to justify demand$ for music I make independently if there isnt any demand for it to begin with -- thats just basic supply/demand economics...its also just being a realist and keeping my feet on the ground
    And it's totally understandable to have that perspective. This has been discussed ad nauseum of course, but one does have to go in with a different set of expectations than in the past.

    This is not a perfect analogy by any stretch, but if you go into a casino with $500 and expect to win big because "you have a system" (and you will likely lose - or gain a little and then lose it later), you're going to be disappointed. The system is designed to beat you. However, if you go into that casino with $500 going in with the goal of "I am spending $500 to be entertained, and if I lose my money that's simply the cost of the services", it's a much healthier attitude. We all like to win, of course but the odds are against you.

    Nobody in 2016 should be writing and recording music with expectation they will make any money from it or even deserve any money from it (this is separate from the argument that one should be able to take it without paying). Value and worth are subjective to the user. What makes your art worth anything? To say "I'm going to write and record this album, and I expect anyone who wants to hear has to pay me $15", is not a winning formula in the 21st century, especially as an indie artist, especially when there is plenty of content (music, tv, movies, etc.) that we can absorb as end users for no cost or the cost of a subscription (like cable or Netflix).

    The greatest enemy to the indie artist is not downloading, it's APATHY. I will not relent on my feelings about that as I have seen nothing over the last 10 years on this site and others to think anything different. New artists are dealing with "content overload" and fighting just to be recognized. (See some other threads where we discuss these concepts).

    And YouTube is now the ubiquitous purveyor of copyright infringement on the planet. Every time I do a featured album or sometimes when I'm trying to point out a song to a coworker and don't have it on my device, YouTube is sure to have it or something. It's much more of a fact now than it ever was. But here is what is actually more interesting to me...I would come across a clip that has been on YouTube for 3 years and it has 100 plays. It speaks to the obscurity of much of the music we enjoy, but also about content overload and apathy. It gets 'lost in plain sight'.

    As to music dying (as a result of the digital age), it shows no signs of doing so. In fact, I think some artists might argue a little attrition to separate the "hobbyists" from the "pros" would be a welcome thing (not that I agree). Lots of great music out there being produced every year from my perspective, certainly more than any one person can digest.


    My apologies to the OP for straying this off topic so much. I don't have a soapbox in my line of work, but if it helps I'm stepping on an apple box (industry lingo) as I type this.
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  25. #25
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    And yes, I had several people thank me for playing their music. It happened ALL the time.
    I used to have artists thank me for reviewing their releases, back when I had a review column. Pre-digital days, and it didn't cut into sales.

    If you want to promote an artist, try writing about them instead of giving away their music for free.

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