The Astounding Parallel of Yes / Genesis

[2steves]

Not sure if it was something in the air or the water, but I find it truly odd or coincidental that arguably two of the most admired progressive rock bands took such astoundingly similar trajectory or parallel paths through the music of the 1970's without the interchanging of key members or personal.

Both bands add new members and come out in 1971 with albums that were a huge leaps from their previous releases. Both had two prior albums, interesting but far cries from The Yes Album and Nursery Cryme.

Both bands in particular bring in what will become legendary groundbreaking guitar players in 71 (Hackett and Howe)

Both bands make a run of six fantastic albums

Genesis:

Nursery Cryme 71
Foxtrot 72
Selling England by the Pound 73
The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway 74
Trick of the Tail 76
Wind and Wuthering 76

YES:

The Yes Album 71
Fragile 71
Close to the Edge 72
Tales from Topographic Oceans 73
Relayer 74
Going for the One 77

After this run, both bands clearly run out of steam with albums that are certainly lesser siblings with
(Then it was over) and (Tormato Soup) Both of these records come out in 78.

Both bands offer up over the top epics within months of one another with double concept albums "Tales" and "The Lamb"

Both Tales and Lamb create inner turmoil, enough that key members jump ship (Gabriel and Wakeman)
Both are replaced without much of a blink and both comeback (ditching the double albums) with stellar releases (Trick of the Tail and Relayer)

They both make one more iconic album (Going for the One, Wind and Wuthering) before artistically imploding (this isn't about album sales)

I never got the feeling that they were listening closely to one another musically or conceptually. (I do get the feeling Starcastle members all had every YES album).

Both drummers (Bruford and Collins) needed even further artistic freedom, venturing off into even more eclectic pastures with King Crimson and Brand X.

All in all, these two bands eventually solidify themselves as the #1 and #2 (if you took a general consensus of prog fans) pillars of progressive rock.

I find this all much more mystically compelling than playing DSOTM while watching Wizard of Oz
Was it the English water (Ale)? British Air (herb)?

Yes these are my two favorites and the albums you listed are amazing to this day----besides being a time of creativity and record making freedom where the record business gave them cart blanc-----Britain did create a lot of greatness---Jon Anderson once said---in England at the time---you either went to university or a factory----so music was a third alternative lol. And lot's of bands emerged. And the thing about the two bands is how different and original they both are---each have 5 players ---playing the same instruments---but in many ways the approach couldn't be more different. That is art. You give Picasso a paint brush and some paint and you give Matisse the same---and they come up with something totally different---that's greatness.

[dpt3]

Do you have any documentation to confirm that this really happened? Sounds like a Genesis tribute band.

It was a hoax/publicity stunt by the Tangent, also included on the Limited Edition of their album COMM.

[Tributary Records]

Yes these are my two favorites and the albums you listed are amazing to this day----besides being a time of creativity and record making freedom where the record business gave them cart blanc-----Britain did create a lot of greatness---Jon Anderson once said---in England at the time---you either went to university or a factory----so music was a third alternative lol. And lot's of bands emerged. And the thing about the two bands is how different and original they both are---each have 5 players ---playing the same instruments---but in many ways the approach couldn't be more different. That is art. You give Picasso a paint brush and some paint and you give Matisse the same---and they come up with something totally different---that's greatness.

I really agree.
When bands take the low road and try to copy cat, you get some good music sometimes, but you don't get greatness. Starcastle will always come to mind. If you want to hear a few more "YES" records... there they are.
I've played Starcastle to many people, even moderate YES fans and they were convinced it was in fact YES.

Was YES easier to clone? I don't think I have heard a Genesis copy band (not cover band) that really nailed Genesis. Some might say Spock's Beard, but I think they had more originality than Starcastle.

And while I own a few couple of the Starcastle albums and do enjoy them from time to time, they might be the most unoriginal band I have ever heard. Certainly great playing and beautiful production, and good songs for sure. But let's face it.....

Did Jon Anderson inspire the endless high pitched vocalists that followed in the decade to come?
Did anyone ever really clone Gabriel in a successful band?

[Tributary Records]

And the thing about the two bands is how different and original they both are---each have 5 players ---playing the same instruments---but in many ways the approach couldn't be more different. That is art. You give Picasso a paint brush and some paint and you give Matisse the same---and they come up with something totally different---that's greatness.

I think Deep Purple could fall into that category as well. Similar instrumentation, with highly varied results.
Could there have been more great bands with various visions... without being so directly derivative?

[Svetonio]

Simply two greatest 70s-symphonic rock bands. I think that those are two of three tunes that are the best ones ever recorded in heydays of the genre (third one is A Passion Play by Jethro Tull IMO):





Two pretty different styles of symphonic rock actually - both bands were so original that they were, let's say, "genres per se" inside of symphonic rock genre - but equally amazing.

[Steve983]

Phil Collins was a big Yes fan before he joined Genesis- I think he almost tried out to be their drummer around that brief period when Bruford went to university.

Yes, this did nearly happen. How different would things have turned out if Collins joined Yes? Mind blowing to think about.

[grego]

^ If Collins joined Yes, they'd release something like Hello, I Must Be Going in the 70s.

[malgeo]

It's fascinating to speculate on what might have happened if Bill Bruford has decided to stay in college instead of returning to Yes. The evidence is scant, but by most accounts Tony O'Reilly, his replacement from about Sept. to Nov. 1968, was at least a competent drummer. His band, the Koobas, were managed by Brian Epstein and even opened for the Beatles. If Bruford had never returned, would Yes have achieved what they did anyway? Would Bruford currently be residing in the "Where are they now?" file (much like O'Reilly is today)?

[PROGMONSTER]

I would tend to agree but it is arguable. Yes put out two albums in 72(Fragile and CTTE)giving them an advantage there while Genesis put out two albums in 76(Trick and Wind)giving them an advantage in that period of time. One of the problems with using time delineation is that sometimes it's unclear when the exact release date is. For example is Tales a 73 album or a 74 album? Other albums also have release dates that depend on country etc.

I consider the albums belonging to these years

69-time and a word
70-the yes album
71-fragile
72-close to the edge

75-trick of a tail
76-wind and wuthering

The songs were pretty much written and recorded these years and released at the start of the next year in most cases

[happytheman]

I also don't think Genesis and Yes ever sounded alike.

I remember being at a party where The Knife was being played (Live album) and during the instrumental phase of the song.. several people asked.. "Is this Yes?"
So yeah I think at times early Yes and early Genesis had some similarities..

[-=RTFR666=-]

I remember being at a party where The Knife was being played (Live album) and during the instrumental phase of the song.. several people asked.. "Is this Yes?"
So yeah I think at times early Yes and early Genesis had some similarities..

The closest Genesis ever came to sounding like Yes was the instrumental break/Hackett's guitar solo on Inside and Out. YMMV.

[tormato]

I remember being at a party where The Knife was being played (Live album) and during the instrumental phase of the song.. several people asked.. "Is this Yes?"
So yeah I think at times early Yes and early Genesis had some similarities..

I've noticed that most people who are not prog fans will, upon hearing anything that's sounds like it's from the 70s and remotely prog-ish, will ask one of these three questions:

"Is this Yes?"
"Is this Genesis?"
"Is this ELP?"

I agree that I've never thought that they sounded alike. In fact, I got into prog as a teenager in the 80's and didn't like Genesis until much later. This is perhaps a reaction to their poppy 80's output and a general Phil Collins fatigue during my formative years (it didn't register until later that PC was a really good drummer).

[Rarebird]

I really agree.
When bands take the low road and try to copy cat, you get some good music sometimes, but you don't get greatness. Starcastle will always come to mind. If you want to hear a few more "YES" records... there they are.
I've played Starcastle to many people, even moderate YES fans and they were convinced it was in fact YES.

Was YES easier to clone? I don't think I have heard a Genesis copy band (not cover band) that really nailed Genesis. Some might say Spock's Beard, but I think they had more originality than Starcastle.

And while I own a few couple of the Starcastle albums and do enjoy them from time to time, they might be the most unoriginal band I have ever heard. Certainly great playing and beautiful production, and good songs for sure. But let's face it.....

Did Jon Anderson inspire the endless high pitched vocalists that followed in the decade to come?
Did anyone ever really clone Gabriel in a successful band?

Genesis clone? How about Dimmornas Bro?


And I think several neo-progbands were their Genesis influences on the sleaves.

[helix]

14067473_10154049167867701_8610068158655860421_n.jpg

[Svetonio]

(...)

I also don't think Genesis and Yes ever sounded alike.

The same genre but both bands were very original and therefore pretty different to each others.

[rcarlberg]

In addition to GTR, has Squackett been mentioned?

Post #4

[mozo-pg]

Genesis Clone - The S/T album by Unifaun (with Nad Sylvan).

[wilcox660]

What if a magic dragon joined Yes in 1973?
What if Genesis wrote a concept album about a talking mushroom in 1977?
What if Anthony Phillips and Peter Banks headed rival cricket teams in 1974?
Members of both Yes & Genesis all have fingers! Amazing coincidence!

[Mister Triscuits]

The closest Genesis ever came to sounding like Yes was the instrumental break/Hackett's guitar solo on Inside and Out. YMMV.

I always thought the bass and drums on "Battle of Epping Forest" sounded pretty Yessy.

[moecurlythanu]

What if a magic dragon joined Yes in 1973?!

He'd have had to kill the Magic Elf to get the gig.

[thos]

I always thought the bass and drums on "Battle of Epping Forest" sounded pretty Yessy.

How about the mellotron / bass break after the keyboard solo in "Robbery Assault & Battery". Sounds a bit like Yes..

[happytheman]

I've noticed that most people who are not prog fans will, upon hearing anything that's sounds like it's from the 70s and remotely prog-ish, will ask one of these three questions:

"Is this Yes?"
"Is this Genesis?"
"Is this ELP?"

I agree that I've never thought that they sounded alike.

Listen to the live version of The Knife from Genesis Live and tell me Peter Banks and Steve Hackett couldn't have traded places for that guitar solo.. Not to mention the song structure.. same template Yes was using at the time..

[Watanabe]

Fuckin' symph plebs.Listen to some Henry Cow.

[mozo-pg]

Fuckin' symph plebs.Listen to some Henry Cow.

...as soon on your put on some H-era Marillion.

I don't think anything Genesis ever did sound like Yes - they sound like Genesis.

[dpt3]

Fuckin' symph plebs.Listen to some Henry Cow.

Hmm... they did briefly feature a line-up that included a Chris, Peter, and Anthony...