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Thread: Allan Holdsworth: Overrated, Underrated, or about right? And the Synthaxe!?

  1. #1
    Member StevegSr's Avatar
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    Allan Holdsworth: Overrated, Underrated, or about right? And the Synthaxe!?

    Allan Holdsworth and the Synthaxe. It's still sounds strange to say that. How do view Mr. H on guitar and the fretted MIDI controller Synthaxe?
    To be or not to be? That is the point. - Harry Nilsson.

  2. #2
    Traversing The Dream 100423's Avatar
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    I love his execution, but his sound choice wasn't the greatest.

  3. #3
    Outraged bystander markwoll's Avatar
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    A couple were flat, more than a couple are classic Holdsworth awesome. On Sand and Atavachron Non Brewed Condiment, Funnels, Mr. Berwell, Pud Wud, 4.15 Bradford Exchange are pretty darned good.
    That was just the first two. Hard Hat Area is a favorite too
    Last edited by markwoll; 08-17-2016 at 04:23 PM.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
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    Nostalgia, you know, ain't what it used to be. Furthermore, they tells me, it never was.
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  4. #4
    Member Phlakaton's Avatar
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    I think he's gotten his due with most everyone - and Zappa was a fan of his too. Thumbs up with Tony Williams Lifetime!

  5. #5
    Member Mikhael's Avatar
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    I am not a fan of the Synthaxe. I think that some of the intricacies of his playing, some of the expressive touches, were lost when he moved to the Synthaxe. But Holdsworth, underrated? No. Underexposed? Yes. For a player of his calibre and history to be scraping the bottom of the barrel for scraps is just criminal. There was an article on him in Guitar Player a few years back, and it included quotes from a lot of famous guitarists. McLaughlin, after one particular show, told him he'd steal his licks if he knew what he was doing, but he didn't know what he was doing. Figuring out what Holdsworth does, how, and why, is a pursuit with no possible end. He's THAT good.

    I hung over the monitors at a show here in Austin, determined to see how he does some of these things. After seeing his fingers bend in impossible ways, I realized that I will never be able to smoothly execute EITHER his chording OR his leads; my hands just won't do that...

    Over-rated? Impossible, in my book. He is truly one of a kind.
    Gnish-gnosh borble wiff, shlauuffin oople tirk.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
    I am not a fan of the Synthaxe. I think that some of the intricacies of his playing, some of the expressive touches, were lost when he moved to the Synthaxe. But Holdsworth, underrated? No. Underexposed? Yes. For a player of his calibre and history to be scraping the bottom of the barrel for scraps is just criminal. There was an article on him in Guitar Player a few years back, and it included quotes from a lot of famous guitarists. McLaughlin, after one particular show, told him he'd steal his licks if he knew what he was doing, but he didn't know what he was doing. Figuring out what Holdsworth does, how, and why, is a pursuit with no possible end. He's THAT good.

    I hung over the monitors at a show here in Austin, determined to see how he does some of these things. After seeing his fingers bend in impossible ways, I realized that I will never be able to smoothly execute EITHER his chording OR his leads; my hands just won't do that...

    Over-rated? Impossible, in my book. He is truly one of a kind.
    Well said!

  7. #7
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    I agree. Impossible to overrate him as a guitarist. Of course, whether or not you like his music is I guess as subjective as anything else.

  8. #8
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
    I am not a fan of the Synthaxe. I think that some of the intricacies of his playing, some of the expressive touches, were lost when he moved to the Synthaxe. But Holdsworth, underrated? No. Underexposed? Yes. For a player of his calibre and history to be scraping the bottom of the barrel for scraps is just criminal. There was an article on him in Guitar Player a few years back, and it included quotes from a lot of famous guitarists. McLaughlin, after one particular show, told him he'd steal his licks if he knew what he was doing, but he didn't know what he was doing. Figuring out what Holdsworth does, how, and why, is a pursuit with no possible end. He's THAT good.

    I hung over the monitors at a show here in Austin, determined to see how he does some of these things. After seeing his fingers bend in impossible ways, I realized that I will never be able to smoothly execute EITHER his chording OR his leads; my hands just won't do that...

    Over-rated? Impossible, in my book. He is truly one of a kind.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikhael View Post
    I am not a fan of the Synthaxe. I think that some of the intricacies of his playing, some of the expressive touches, were lost when he moved to the Synthaxe. But Holdsworth, underrated? No. Underexposed? Yes. For a player of his calibre and history to be scraping the bottom of the barrel for scraps is just criminal. There was an article on him in Guitar Player a few years back, and it included quotes from a lot of famous guitarists. McLaughlin, after one particular show, told him he'd steal his licks if he knew what he was doing, but he didn't know what he was doing. Figuring out what Holdsworth does, how, and why, is a pursuit with no possible end. He's THAT good.

    I hung over the monitors at a show here in Austin, determined to see how he does some of these things. After seeing his fingers bend in impossible ways, I realized that I will never be able to smoothly execute EITHER his chording OR his leads; my hands just won't do that...

    Over-rated? Impossible, in my book. He is truly one of a kind.
    All true & well-put, but as I've tried over the years to figure out why Holdsworth's solo stuff doesn't really grab me, I've come to think that I basically don't care for his arrangements. Great composer, almost unthinkably brilliant player, but he can just be so monochrome that I have a hard time engaging over the long term.

  10. #10
    I think his note choices either chill your spine or they don't. For me, they do.....

  11. #11
    Member nosebone's Avatar
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    An innovator can never be overrated.

    Holdsy is one of a kind!
    no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by nosebone View Post
    Holdsy is one of a kind!
    He's pretty good on that album too!

  13. #13
    He's absolutely one of my very favorite guitarists, in the Top 5 for me. I've nothing but admiration and love for him and his music, whether solo or in a group setting.

    Just bought Bruford's One of a Kind and Soft Machine's Bundles because I realized these were missing from my library and even though I've heard them both already... it just felt wrong not to have them.

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    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post

    Just bought Bruford's One of a Kind and Soft Machine's Bundles because I realized these were missing from my library and even though I've heard them both already... it just felt wrong not to have them.
    You'll probably want to get this eventually. http://www.moonjune.com/mjr_web_2013...sworth_MJR007/

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    You'll probably want to get this eventually. http://www.moonjune.com/mjr_web_2013...sworth_MJR007/
    Yep, you're right! Now I want that one too.

  16. #16
    Always loved this one!


  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    Always loved this one!

    Oh holy cow, I completely forgot about that album! It's got some great stuff on it. And I've had it for awhile, yet somehow forgot that Allan is on that one as well.

    I sense a Holdsworth listening binge coming up soon...

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    Completely unique. Despite the high praise he has received from guitarists' guitarists, he is not overrated.

  19. #19
    At the time I thought the Synthaxe was cool, because of all the stuff you could do on it that you couldn't do on a regular guitar. But now I don't like it, simply because it's not a guitar. I mean, if you're going to use something like that, you might as well as just buy whichever keyboard synth, and learn how to play keyboards on it.

    As a composer, I think Holdsworth is awesome. The actual written parts of his compositions, when he's using that great clean tone to play all those tone cluster laden chords, is frequently pretty awesome. But once he starts improvising, he very quickly gets carried away with the 64th notes.

    I actually liked him better when he was doing that sort of quasi-rock oriented type stuff in the 80's, when he had Paul Williams singing with him. I liked the combination of Holdsworth's harmonic ideas, with sort of semi-conventional pop/rock song formats. I thought Metal Fatigue was a great album. Panic Stations should have been a hit.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    [...] I actually liked him better when he was doing that sort of quasi-rock oriented type stuff in the 80's, when he had Paul Williams singing with him. I liked the combination of Holdsworth's harmonic ideas, with sort of semi-conventional pop/rock song formats. I thought Metal Fatigue was a great album. Panic Stations should have been a hit.
    Totally agree with you. Love that one.

  21. #21
    Member wideopenears's Avatar
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    As a soloist, he has a unique voice, and that 64th note legato thing, considering his "non-standard" note choices, maintain my interest. I hear melody, even in the blur. I will say that sometimes he did seem to be searching for ideas, the last couple times I've seen him live. As I've said repeatedly in many threads here, I love Allan as composer--his melancholic mood, and those swelling chords, are very "English" to my ears. I love Metal Fatigue too, and Road Games, both examples of his sensibility and how it could work in a more conventional, almost Pop/Rock context. I love the completely unique full-on fusion thing found on his later albums very much. I even love the Synthaxe stuff--I've seen him play it, and I think it is way cooler than a keyboard controller--especially when he used the breath controller tube, which you can hear on Non Brewed Condiment. Based on interviews I've read, he was trying to get the phrasing ability of a wind instrument, and I think he succeeded to some degree. I'm less fond of the Synthaxe-as-Orchestra stuff, mainly because of the dated sounds I think, but as a solo voice I think it's amazing.

    I know many people find his earlier sideman or band member sessions more satisfying. I love that stuff, and like to hear the development of his voice, from Igginbottom through Tempest, into the Softs/Gong phase and to what I consider his fully-formed voice which I hear on the Bruford albums, and to some extent UK. But for me his solo stuff is the best--it's the most fully realized example of both his quirky compositional style, his "arrangements," and his completely unique and mostly mesmerizing solo voice.
    "And this is the chorus.....or perhaps it's a bridge...."

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post

    I actually liked him better when he was doing that sort of quasi-rock oriented type stuff in the 80's, when he had Paul Williams singing with him. I liked the combination of Holdsworth's harmonic ideas, with sort of semi-conventional pop/rock song formats. I thought Metal Fatigue was a great album. Panic Stations should have been a hit.
    I have recently revisited this era quite intensively, and I agree. The interesting thing that I noticed is that he really created a new rock vocabulary on these records. It wasn't jazz or fusion or prog (though certainly influenced by all of them), and in my probably naïve opinion, it *was* a sound with commercial appeal.

    I thought if he had gotten a better singer (though I like Williams, Wetton would have been superb for the material) this stuff really could have gotten airplay.

  23. #23
    Member wideopenears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arturs View Post
    I have recently revisited this era quite intensively, and I agree. The interesting thing that I noticed is that he really created a new rock vocabulary on these records. It wasn't jazz or fusion or prog (though certainly influenced by all of them), and in my probably naïve opinion, it *was* a sound with commercial appeal.

    I thought if he had gotten a better singer (though I like Williams, Wetton would have been superb for the material) this stuff really could have gotten airplay.
    I liked Jack Bruce's vocals......
    "And this is the chorus.....or perhaps it's a bridge...."

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by wideopenears View Post
    But for me his solo stuff is the best--it's the most fully realized example of both his quirky compositional style, his "arrangements," and his completely unique and mostly mesmerizing solo voice.
    A piece like The Un-Merry Go Round is a case in point. You won't find anything like this on the "other bands" albums. A beautiful and elaborate composition that contains not just one, but two gorgeous guitar solos, and a great drum solo too!

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    He's something of a guitar genius, a pity he isn't more widely known outside of guitar circles.

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