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Thread: Mike Rutherford: Good, bad or just kind of meh?

  1. #26
    Member StevegSr's Avatar
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    Bass: Good.
    Guitar: Meh.
    Drums: Bad. (See the video for Invisible Touch.)

    Songwriting: Excellent.
    To be or not to be? That is the point. - Harry Nilsson.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevegSr View Post
    Drums: Bad. (See the video for Invisible Touch.)
    except! –––


  3. #28
    By far the least interesting long-term player in early Genesis, but an important member of the band for his overall contribution nonetheless.

    Competent parts player on 12-string.

    Rock Solid bass player...but not a style of playing i really enjoy.A lick or line here and there that catches the attention, but usually i find his phrasing stiff and uninteresting..there's not enough varied influences coming through in his playing for me.His playing was just outright mediocre on the first couple of albums, then from NC and FT on it sounds like he shedded some Yes and Who albums, got solid chops but never really developed his own interesting voice.

  4. #29
    Member Guitarplyrjvb's Avatar
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    I've always loved his bass playing up through W&W. After that, he was pretty pedestrian.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Watanabe View Post
    By far the least interesting long-term player in early Genesis, but an important member of the band for his overall contribution nonetheless.

    Competent parts player on 12-string.

    Rock Solid bass player...but not a style of playing i really enjoy.A lick or line here and there that catches the attention, but usually i find his phrasing stiff and uninteresting..there's not enough varied influences coming through in his playing for me.His playing was just outright mediocre on the first couple of albums, then from NC and FT on it sounds like he shedded some Yes and Who albums, got solid chops but never really developed his own interesting voice.
    You're entitled to that opinion, but I think that assessment is somewhat unfair. Sure, he wasn't flashy but like (most) good bassists he provided the foundational glue to hold the rhythmic center together (and that's not always easy when you are dealing with a band like [earlier] Genesis that utilized a lot of odd-time sigs.)

    One of my favorite things about the Belgian TV studio live performance from early 1972 (apart from seeing Genesis pre-costumes, as just a band playing their tunes straightforwardly, without extra frills) is that Rutherford is nice and loud in the mix (not that common for TV mono sound in the early seventies), and there are also some good close-ups of him on the Rickenbacker.

    "Wouldn't it be odd, if there really was a God, and he looked down on Earth and saw what we've done to her?" -- Adrian Belew ('Men In Helicopters')

  6. #31
    Member StevegSr's Avatar
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    I think that Rutherford is one of few prog bassists that never overplayed, as many of his guitar and bass playing or bass having switched over from guitar playing contemporaries did. He seemed to acknowledge that less is more with bass at times.
    To be or not to be? That is the point. - Harry Nilsson.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by syncopatico View Post
    You're entitled to that opinion, but I think that assessment is somewhat unfair. Sure, he wasn't flashy but like (most) good bassists he provided the foundational glue to hold the rhythmic center together (and that's not always easy when you are dealing with a band like [earlier] Genesis that utilized a lot of odd-time sigs.)

    One of my favorite things about the Belgian TV studio live performance from early 1972 (apart from seeing Genesis pre-costumes, as just a band playing their tunes straightforwardly, without extra frills) is that Rutherford is nice and loud in the mix (not that common for TV mono sound in the early seventies), and there are also some good close-ups of him on the Rickenbacker.

    Fountain of Salmacis might well be my favourite playing of his.I don't mean to run him down...as i said from NC onward he was a rock solid player, but for the most part he just doesn't have a style that holds my ear.

  8. #33
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watanabe View Post
    A lick or line here and there that catches the attention, but usually i find his phrasing stiff and uninteresting..there's not enough varied influences coming through in his playing for me.His playing was just outright mediocre on the first couple of albums, then from NC and FT on it sounds like he shedded some Yes and Who albums, got solid chops but never really developed his own interesting voice.
    Rutherford has a finesse feel/groove on bass --- Im willing to bet that Rutherford would complement a funk drummer like Dennis Chambers better than Squier or Entwistle would have

  9. #34
    If the funk drummer wanted a solid rock bassist with next to no jazz, blues, funk or even soul influence in his playing to play off in a contrast of styles then Rutherford would do fine i guess.I hear a lot more of a "finesse feel" in the other other two tbh, both have the interesting phrasing and note choice within a rock playing context i find Rutherford often doesn't quite have.

  10. #35
    I've been trying to find a link but you will have to rely on my terrible memory. I remember reading (Bass Player magazine maybe?) an interview where Rutherford said he liked to record his bass last. Not as part of the rhythm section, but after he had recorded all of his guitar parts in order to make sure every note was in the right place. It shows his natural instinct as a bass player, but he also played bass like a guitarist instead of as an extension of the rhythm section.

  11. #36
    Member 2steves's Avatar
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    Love his bass playing ---one of my favorites---love the big chunky sounds and the more intricate stuff
    Acoustic is good----electric is ok but doesn't really flow for me like Hackett

  12. #37
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    He's a pretty amazing bass player.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    Rutherford has a finesse feel/groove on bass --- Im willing to bet that Rutherford would complement a funk drummer like Dennis Chambers better than Squier or Entwistle would have
    Ridiculous!

  14. #39
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watanabe View Post
    If the funk drummer wanted a solid rock bassist with next to no jazz, blues, funk or even soul influence in his playing to play off in a contrast of styles then Rutherford would do fine i guess.I hear a lot more of a "finesse feel" in the other other two tbh, both have the interesting phrasing and note choice within a rock playing context i find Rutherford often doesn't quite have.
    Rutherford has a more pocket groove/delivery/ plays tighter with the drum groove than the other two, regardless of his influences (To be fair: Squire has a good drum lock, too, but Squire's discography doesn't drift too far out of his usual paradigms so thats really a giant question-mark as opposed to his ability to groove within those genres)

    also, Im one of the few people here (and one of the few bassplayers you'll ever meet) that thinks Entwistle is a tad over-rated but, then of course, my idea of a great bass player is Marcus Miller.....but we're all different and thats what makes the world go 'round

    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
    Ridiculous!
    whatever
    Last edited by klothos; 08-02-2016 at 04:05 PM.

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    Rutherford has a finesse feel/groove on bass --- Im willing to bet that Rutherford would complement a funk drummer like Dennis Chambers better than Squier or Entwistle would have
    That's actually a very interesting perspective/comment (and coming from a bass player I see)! Rutherford didn't seem to have any problems meshing/syncing/locking in with Chester Thompson live; and I consider Chester one of the very best at being able to play odd-time signature rhythms that groove. A busier player could have stepped all over the drums (and vice versa).
    Now look at the inverse situation: Jaco in Weather Report. Was there ever a *busier* player than the great Jaco?!? But Jaco didn't mesh with Chester; he wanted much more basic, simple drumming to be able to elaborate on top of; so Jaco has Zawinul fire Chester, with former percussionist Alex Acuña taking over the drum chair with his much more 'straightforward' beats.
    "Wouldn't it be odd, if there really was a God, and he looked down on Earth and saw what we've done to her?" -- Adrian Belew ('Men In Helicopters')

  16. #41
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    my idea of a great bass player is Marcus Miller
    Can't argue with that.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    Rutherford has a more pocket groove/delivery/ plays tighter with the drum groove than the other two
    Actually I don't find him a pocket player at all. My favorite pocket bass player may have been Dave Hope of early Kansas. He was a true part of the Rhythm section that helped hold the song structure and tone together. I actually see Rutherford more of another lead player than a pocket bass player.

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