Jay Schellen to step in for Alan White for Yes on USA tour

[Adinfinitum]

[QUOTE=BravadoNJ;591661]^^^ good example. the Americanized version of the band has no original members but still tours.
not only do they own the LRB name, the original members are not allowed to use it and can't release any music under it.

Well, the original members sold the name and rights, so, legally, they are prohibited from doing so. In fact, there is an injunction in force preventing them.

the band still uses the original recordings to promote their shows- something i think is wrong.

On the other hand, the current band is promoting the old songs so they get played on the radio or streamed and thus, generate revenue for the original songwriters, as well as generate sales of the music. So, the original members shouldn't complain too much, right?

I Saw LRB open for Chicago about 10 years ago and they sounded great. I never would have known that Glenn Shorrock was no longer the lead singer (not that I knew at the time that Glenn was the singer on Help Is On The Way).

In terms of Yes, I'm really conflicted. I don't begrudge Steve Howe and Co from making a living. I hope they still enjoy playing as opposed to seeing it as a "job." On the other hand, losing Jon and Chris, it really isn't "YES." But, I suppose, I'd take this form of Yes maintaining the legacy than no Yes at all.

[Adinfinitum]

All these arguments, discussings, ballyhoo is really just the classic "Ship of Theseus" paradox - whether a ship/band repaired over time by replacing each of its wooden parts (or replacing each member over time) would remain the same ship/band.

[Frumious B]

All these arguments, discussings, ballyhoo is really just the classic "Ship of Theseus" paradox - whether a ship/band repaired over time by replacing each of its wooden parts (or replacing each member over time) would remain the same ship/band.

A completely rebuilt over time ship or car can be cosmetically and functionally identical, still able to do all of the things it's been able to do. You can't replace PEOPLE the way you replace machinery and retain the essence.

[Adinfinitum]

So, if a new bass player plays the songs note for note using the same instruments and amp, the band isn't the same? When Yes replaced Peter Banks with Steve Howe, then it wasn't Yes anymore, it was a new band. Should a band change its name every time a member leaves or is replaced?

In trademark law, when licensing a trademark, the licensor has to maintain quality control. When Hostess went belly-up and sold the formulas to Devil Dogs and another company started making them again, in the same packaging, are they no longer Devil Dogs?

The moral and ethical outage over this makes me morally and ethically outraged.

[Frumious B]

So, if a new bass player plays the songs note for note using the same instruments and amp, the band isn't the same? When Yes replaced Peter Banks with Steve Howe, then it wasn't Yes anymore, it was a new band. Should a band change its name every time a member leaves or is replaced?

In trademark law, when licensing a trademark, the licensor has to maintain quality control. When Hostess went belly-up and sold the formulas to Devil Dogs and another company started making them again, in the same packaging, are they no longer Devil Dogs?

The moral and ethical outage over this makes me morally and ethically outraged.

Well, you could probably assemble a group of unrelated players who could stage a far more faithful and technically accomplished performance of, say, Tales From Topographic Oceans than the current Yes could so maybe those guys should be Yes. To me it's really about the albums and the guys who created them. If you want my support then make a record I like. The more records I like that you made, the more I like you and the more likely I am to support your current and future endeavors. It's pretty straightforward. I'm not going to support those who haven't earned my support just because they use the same name as a previous group of players who did earn it, especially if the core creative essence of the old band is so totally and completely gone. Howe is the only person left I'd pay to hear.

[Facelift]

In trademark law, when licensing a trademark, the licensor has to maintain quality control. When Hostess went belly-up and sold the formulas to Devil Dogs and another company started making them again, in the same packaging, are they no longer Devil Dogs?

If the analogy you need to resort to is the "formula" for cheap, mass produced, sugary desert snack products with no nutritional value, then I'd say that the point is already lost.

[helix]

Well, you could probably assemble a group of unrelated players who could stage a far more faithful and technically accomplished performance of, say, Tales From Topographic Oceans than the current Yes could so maybe those guys should be Yes. To me it's really about the albums and the guys who created them. If you want my support then make a record I like. The more records I like that you made, the more I like you and the more likely I am to support your current and future endeavors. It's pretty straightforward. I'm not going to support those who haven't earned my support just because they use the same name as a previous group of players who did earn it, especially if the core creative essence of the old band is so totally and completely gone. Howe is the only person left I'd pay to hear.

is there any way you can tally every single one of your opinion posts on this 'Yes' subject and just assign a link to it??



make sure to put it on Yesfans too. thanks~!

[bRETT]

some would point to the Little River Band as an example!

But the LRB have nobody who was involved in any of their well-known material. A better parallel for Yes would be AC/DC: One classic-era member (Angus/Howe), one familiar face from later lineups (Cliff Williams/Downes) and one who's filled in at different times (Chris Slade/Sherwood). Plus a singer who's associated with another band, though AC/DC of course have a more famous one.

[Adm.Kirk]

We can quibble about Yes/Not Yes until the cows come home. What matters at the end of the day is, if you see them live, did you enjoy the performance? Did they bring you some sense of enjoyment? If so, then who really cares who is in the band.

Personally, I like the current line up. I have zero problems with it. I hope Mr. White comes back strong and playing well. Yes has changed it's members as organically as possible and while I would love Anderson to return or Wakeman, it's not a deal breaker. Downes, Davison, and Sherwood are doing fine. I really feel Sherwood was the right choice and perhaps the only choice for the band and since Squire hand picked him, the argument is pointless anyway. Jay Schellen will do an admirable job on drums and if down the road it become permanent, so be it, but I hope White returns quickly.

I also wonder, even though retired, if any one for a second thought about ringing up Bruford. He would have said no but I wonder if the thought crossed their mind.

Bill

[bondegezou]

I also wonder, even though retired, if any one for a second thought about ringing up Bruford. He would have said no but I wonder if the thought crossed their mind.

Howe and Bruford remain in touch, but (a) he'd obviously say no, and (b) with a tour featuring Tales and Drama, Bruford's little better positioned than any other drummer!

Henry

[Adm.Kirk]

I agree. Just wondered if it was considered, even for a moment. Wouldn't it be interesting though to hear what Bruford would have done with that music?

Bill

[Farpoint Kevin]

I certainly understand where the folks are coming from who say it's not Yes without certain members...At the same time, I can't fault Steve Howe and company for continuing to make a living doing what they do. It's not like they are deceiving anyone as to who's in the band..If you don't want to go, by all means don't go! And to me, I think a lot of it comes down to whether or not they continue to make good music, and that's going to vary greatly from person to person. I've seen Yes 7 or 8 times, the last time with Benoit David on vocals. They put on a GREAT show...not the best Yes show I'd seen, but not the worst. And I really enjoyed FLY FROM HERE quite a lot. I don't rank it as highly as anything from TYA through GFTO, but it's better than at least 5 or 6 Yes albums, in my opinion. I haven't seen the lineup with Davison and Sherwood, but I do think Sherwood has been around long enough and contributed enough to be considered a valid member, especially after being personally chosen by Squire as his replacement. And as for new music, HEAVEN AND EARTH was just OK to me (although I do love "Believe Again" and a couple other songs), but I think if the current lineup was to come out with a true masterpiece of an album, it would certainly boost the "legitimacy" of the lineup. Is that likely at this point? Well, let's just say I'm always hopeful.

Having said all that, I have my tickets to see AWR in November!

EDIT: I forgot to mention, I think Jay is a killer drummer and will do a fine job...but still wish all the best to Alan and hope for a speedy and complete recovery!

[Progatron]

I certainly understand where the folks are coming from who say it's not Yes without certain members...At the same time, I can't fault Steve Howe and company for continuing to make a living doing what they do. It's not like they are deceiving anyone as to who's in the band..If you don't want to go, by all means don't go!

I agree with this. I have no problem with them touring under the Yes banner - more power to them, I hope they have continued success and people enjoy the music. I'm just personally not going to go anymore, because to me some of those personalities are integral - it IS more than just the notes being played in the right order (for ME). When I saw them in 2002, it was Anderson/Squire/Howe/Wakeman/White. Seeing them play "Revealing Science" and "Awaken", with Squire stealing the show, and Wakeman playing his moog solo, Jon lost in his cosmic space (but nailing every song)... it was a concert I'll never forget. Simply majestic, and that's not exaggeration. Now, though, it's Howe... and four completely different guys rounding out the band. Rick & Jon were gone, then Chris sadly... and now, not even Alan is there (temporarily, I know). I know it wouldn't be the same for me. I might come away thinking "They were pretty good, actually" - but that's hardly the same tingly experience I had last time. I wouldn't care if Keith Richards took four completely different musicians on the road and called it The Rolling Stones, but I wouldn't go to that either.

This is not meant as harsh criticism, it's just how I feel. I like Downes, I like Sherwood, and I think Jon D. is great... but it just ain't the same. I do, however, continue to buy the live releases and at least check them out from the comfort of my living room sofa with a cold beverage.

I'll always love them - I'm just not going to be in the audience anymore... I hope my seat is filled by someone who maybe never got to see them before!

[Fracktured]

There's 2 Yes's touring this year, so every Yes fan wins.

[Obscured]

There's 2 Yes's touring this year, so every Yes fan wins.

3 if you count Anderson-Ponty Band's earlier tour.

[Farpoint Kevin]

I agree with this. I have no problem with them touring under the Yes banner - more power to them, I hope they have continued success and people enjoy the music. I'm just personally not going to go anymore, because to me some of those personalities are integral - it IS more than just the notes being played in the right order (for ME). When I saw them in 2002, it was Anderson/Squire/Howe/Wakeman/White. Seeing them play "Revealing Science" and "Awaken", with Squire stealing the show, and Wakeman playing his moog solo, Jon lost in his cosmic space (but nailing every song)... it was a concert I'll never forget. Simply majestic, and that's not exaggeration. Now, though, it's Howe... and four completely different guys rounding out the band. Rick & Jon were gone, then Chris sadly... and now, not even Alan is there (temporarily, I know). I know it wouldn't be the same for me. I might come away thinking "They were pretty good, actually" - but that's hardly the same tingly experience I had last time. I wouldn't care if Keith Richards took four completely different musicians on the road and called it The Rolling Stones, but I wouldn't go to that either.

This is not meant as harsh criticism, it's just how I feel. I like Downes, I like Sherwood, and I think Jon D. is great... but it just ain't the same. I do, however, continue to buy the live releases and at least check them out from the comfort of my living room sofa with a cold beverage.

I'll always love them - I'm just not going to be in the audience anymore... I hope my seat is filled by someone who maybe never got to see them before!

That doesn't sound like harsh criticism at all. It sounds like a reasonable opinion. I get it.

[gearHed289]

Nicely said Progatron, I'm with ya. And looking forward to ARW in the fall.

[miamiscot]

I agree with this. I have no problem with them touring under the Yes banner - more power to them, I hope they have continued success and people enjoy the music. I'm just personally not going to go anymore, because to me some of those personalities are integral - it IS more than just the notes being played in the right order (for ME). When I saw them in 2002, it was Anderson/Squire/Howe/Wakeman/White. Seeing them play "Revealing Science" and "Awaken", with Squire stealing the show, and Wakeman playing his moog solo, Jon lost in his cosmic space (but nailing every song)... it was a concert I'll never forget. Simply majestic, and that's not exaggeration. Now, though, it's Howe... and four completely different guys rounding out the band. Rick & Jon were gone, then Chris sadly... and now, not even Alan is there (temporarily, I know). I know it wouldn't be the same for me. I might come away thinking "They were pretty good, actually" - but that's hardly the same tingly experience I had last time. I wouldn't care if Keith Richards took four completely different musicians on the road and called it The Rolling Stones, but I wouldn't go to that either.

This is not meant as harsh criticism, it's just how I feel. I like Downes, I like Sherwood, and I think Jon D. is great... but it just ain't the same. I do, however, continue to buy the live releases and at least check them out from the comfort of my living room sofa with a cold beverage.

I'll always love them - I'm just not going to be in the audience anymore... I hope my seat is filled by someone who maybe never got to see them before!

Not harsh at all. Well thought out and very reasonable. I will go see them Wednesday. I do not expect to have the same reaction to them I had in 1976 when I first went to a Yes concert but I will say that they were VERY good last year in Dayton playing with Toto.

I, for one, will not go to see ARW simply because I've never been a fan of the Rabin-era material (from which the set list will undoubtedly be culled.) To each his own.

[Sunlight Caller]

Well put Progatron... I saw my first show in '77 and to see that lineup reunited and playing the classics was special. I have kept pace with recent tours though, and saw the Benoit fronted line-up twice and the Davison one three times. I was a little ambivalent about attending, but I have enjoyed each and every one of those gigs. Sure it's nostalgia and nothing like their heyday, but it's also 40 years on. I'm not sure where I bow out, it's pretty close I think, but I have persuasive mates!

I'm interested in ARW for curiosity reasons but like JJ88 the prices are keeping me at home, as they are my persuasive mates. I feel they have this wrong, but perhaps sales returns are better than I predict.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ProgArtist]

I went and saw Yes last summer but my friend who usually attends with me declined just as he had the last time I saw Yes without Jon Anderson. I almost didn't go, but a day or two before the concert I thought "my favorite band is coming to town and I'm not seeing them???" I enjoyed the show despite it being at the bottom of the 7 Yes concerts I've seen since I became a fan in the early 90's. Howe was in fine form and Billy really surprised me, especially given that OYE and The Ladder are in my bottom three Yes albums (H&E grabs the other spot at being slightly better than OYE). I realize that my opinion of those albums is more about his compositions and style than anything else, but I still didn't expect him to be such a competent bass player. Alan did just fine, but I wasn't expecting him to wow me at this point in the game. Still, his long tenure with Yes does seem to give some more credibility to the band, and I have a lot of respect for him based on his past work as well as his seemingly positive disposition. Here's hoping for a quick return to health!

[battema]

I was on the fence about seeing Yes this time around (Drama is a favorite album of mine, but the last time I caught the band the performance was fairly lackluster), but based on the videos from the opening shows I went ahead and got a ticket for the DC show.

Like others...I respect folks who don't want to go based on the changes. For me personally, Downes is as strong a draw as Howe, especially if we're talking about Drama. It'll be great to hear him tear through those tunes. I will miss Squire/White behind them, but am willing to give Sherwood & Schellen a fair shake.

I am also seeing ARW in the fall, mostly because I do really dig Jacaranda and would enjoy seeing Rabin live again. In both cases (ARW and Yes) I'm not expecting either to turn out some EPIC performance that will blow away any/all other Yes concerts. But it will still be nice to see them.

[Dan Roth]

And it is now official, Schellen is officially the drummer in Yes:

https://www.loudersound.com/news/dru...ermanent-basis

“We're all delighted to welcome Jay officially into the fold," exclaims guitarist and longest-serving member Steve Howe He's been a great support throughout the last seven years, and we couldn't have found a better all round team player.”

“I am thrilled to become the new drummer with Yes,” adds Schellen. “I grew up playing along to Yes records and I am proud to have worked so closely with my musical hero and great friend Alan White these past few years. I will strive to honour his memory as we drive towards the future with the band.”

[Baribrotzer]

And it is now official, Schellen is officially the drummer in Yes:

I wonder how the contracts work for Yes, who is an official band member and who isn't. In some bands (the Stones, for example), they'd all be sidemen except for Howe and maybe Downes - or even everybody except for their manager, since none of them are original.

[zeprogmeister]

I think Howe is the only one with an ownership share in the band now, so I'd imagine everyone else is on contract.

[bondegezou]

I wonder how the contracts work for Yes, who is an official band member and who isn't. In some bands (the Stones, for example), they'd all be sidemen except for Howe and maybe Downes - or even everybody except for their manager, since none of them are original.

I don't know what the current arrangements are. A while back, Howe and White owned the band, so presumably they took profits, but there was a subsidiary company for live work with Downes also a co-owner, so presumably all three of them took profits there. Sherwood and Davison appeared to be employees, while Schellen was still paid on a session basis.