Progressive Rock is Dead

[Zeuhlmate]

Perhaps somewhat ironically, the last thing those with "progressive ears" should be doing at a discussion board like this is focusing on how the music is labeled, if it fits in a box, and judging how "progressive" it is or isn't. It's not productive, imo, and closes the mind.

#flonkus

[Scrotum Scissor]

The way I see it, it was historically a fan-driven, industry-manufactured label. AFAIC, it means nothing. This idea that the music an artist creates has to continue to evolve, progress, and fold upon itself is not a sustainable concept, don't you think?

First of all, the "Prog" abbreviation means absolutely nothing - I wholeheartedly agree. As for music evolving and/or progressing and indeed continuing to do so, heavy metal has essentially done exactly that since inception. The fact that many or most Steppenwolf or BTO or Uriah Heep or Iron Maiden fans wouldn't be caught dead with a CD by PsyOpus or UnExpect [sic] or perhaps even wouldn't acknowledge the relation to begin with, doesn't change that. Can progressive rock develop/evolve/progress any further from today? Well, some fo the most creative acts around (such as SGM or Extra Life) have long since folded, Kayo Dot have taken to reinterpreting 80s alternative aesthetics of then-indie rock/pop - so maybe not. However, the question itself aschews the terrible fact that pop/rock music at large is succumbing altogether. As such I also agree with Dave Kerman on his current position; thank the powers for as long as there's music to be had at all.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Perhaps somewhat ironically, the last thing those with "progressive ears" should be doing at a discussion board like this is focusing on how the music is labeled, if it fits in a box, and judging how "progressive" it is or isn't. It's not productive, imo, and closes the mind.

I do concur. Which is partly why I wrote 'yes and no' in my initial post.

[notallwhowander]

The way I see it, it was historically a fan-driven, industry-manufactured label. AFAIC, it means nothing. This idea that the music an artist creates has to continue to evolve, progress, and fold upon itself is not a sustainable concept, don't you think? In fact, the vast majority of artists identified as prog rock in the 70s either turned more mainstream or maintained a consistent sound/groove for most of their tenure.

It's only because we - as fans - decades later on a site like Progressive Ears have gotten obsessed with the term "progressive" that we have created this standard or ethos, in large part ex post facto. As a result, we look down on artists who do not "progress" and simply want to play in the established style that was created. I have never been quite able to understand that.

From my perspective, there is more great music out there than EVER before. It takes some dedication and open-mindedness to discover it, but it's out there. You know it. I know it.

Perhaps somewhat ironically, the last thing those with "progressive ears" should be doing at a discussion board like this is focusing on how the music is labeled, if it fits in a box, and judging how "progressive" it is or isn't. It's not productive, imo, and closes the mind.

#flonkus

Indeed!

While I am sympathetic to all the hair-splitting that comes with such an ambiguous label such as "progressive rock," the heart of a forum like this is sharing music we like, no matter from whence it comes. We use a handful of "cannonized" rock bands from the '60s and '70s as kind of common reference point, and move on from there. The rest is simply amusing ourselves with the abstruse properties of language.

[NogbadTheBad]

I'm in two camps on this, is it relevant in the universe of music? Probably not for those who have a fairly narrow definition of the genre but if, like me, you include bands like Swans & Radiohead in prog then they certainly get coverage. But I personally don't really care if its relevant or just niche. There are loads of interesting new and old bands out there still releasing music and touring. Would it be great if my personal heroes could make a permanent living on this stuff? Yes. But as long as there are artists who love making, releasing and touring this stuff, however sporadically I'll continue to hunt it out buy it & go to the gigs. I see young bands like Bent Knee, cellar & point, Panzerpappa, Jack O The Clock, Make A Rising and PoiL and I've excited for what is new out there.

[Svetonio]

Look at the small numbers participating here and on progarchives. (...)

Progarchives public forum is a dying place, but prog music is very lively.

[Facelift]

Look at the small numbers participating here and on progarchives. Or attending festivals and gigs.

Listen to the music…endlessly repetitious.

It's become a genre for musicians with chops to show off in a meaningless stream of copycat renditions of what people have come to define as 'progrock'. The opposite of musicians who inspired a new label that became a new genre called progressive rock, whose fondest ambition was to sound like no one else.

In my humble opinion.

If you think I'm wrong, I'd love to hear something to change my mind.

Progressive rock mostly died in the late '70s. If you're saying that the present-day prog revival is dead, I would disagree. It was never all that large to begin with, and being definitionally "progressive" was never a significant factor at any point in the revival, anyway.

[Svetonio]

Prog magazine printed an article by The Enid's Robert John Godfrey a couple of issues back, in which he voiced similar views.

The magazine kindly published my response in the latest edition:

"Dear Prog

I read Robert John Godfrey’s recent article with a mixture of sadness and frustration, and while I can understand the points he’s trying to make, ultimately I feel his views are misguided.

He aspires to a rainbow culture for all the talents that he feels is non-existent, but my experience is the exact opposite. Music of a progressive nature is thriving, with the advance of technology encouraging artists to work collaboratively and create music without boundaries. You only have to look to an issue of Prog to read about how artists from varied backgrounds are creating music together via web technology in a way that would previously have been too expensive, or would have been discouraged by record companies seeking to pigeon-hole their artists for marketing purposes.

Nowadays we have labels like Kscope that have built a roster of acts thriving on diversity and progression as artists. Every new Kscope release is an autobuy for me, often taking a leap in the dark, occasionally feeling out of my comfort zone, but ultimately enjoying broadened horizons and a richer musical palette. Judging by your readers’ letters every month, and their reactions to your sampler cds, progressive-inclined music is still pushing boundaries and reaching out to new listeners.

I agree with RJG’s view that the genre should continue to evolve, but it seems singularly bad–tempered of him to criticise some musicians as dreary technicians. In these days of manufactured mainstream music, any artist picking up an instrument should be applauded and encouraged.

Similarly, his suggestion that we need a clearance of those artists who do not live up to an ideal is troubling – what would be the criteria, and who would decide? Wouldn’t that create the same blinkers and prejudices that RJG claims he discarded?

Music of a progressive nature is flourishing without the need for the kind of artistic purge RJG advocates, and I find it somewhat sad that in the twilight of a remarkable and recognised career, he should be burdened by such a cynical attitude towards those musicians who fall short of his lofty ideals.

It’s all good music Robert, even the comfort food!"

Congrats!

[Firth]

Somehow you're blatantly missing the main point. Country or pop music do not by their very name attest to being transcendently creative or generating development. The basic artistic ethos - historically as well as etymologically - of progressive rock *does*.

You missed my point that it's all relative. There is no absolute definition of being transcendently creative. And being repetitive can be within a song, song to song, or album to album.

[Scrotum Scissor]

it's all relative. There is no absolute definition of being transcendently creative. And being repetitive can be within a song, song to song, or album to album.

I know what you mean, and I agree to some extent. But the dilemma for both "Prog" and progressive rock (if it still exists) is the fact that its definition primarily rests on the perception of external voices. Outsiders presented With its history and ethos basically expects it to live up to an overall virtue contained in the name itself.

[TheLongshot]

First off, no genre of music ever truly dies, as long as there are fans of it. There will always be people moved to make music along the same lines. Given that there are still prog festivals and that there are new bands all the time, no, I don't think the genre is dead.

What this thread is more arguing is, is Progressive Rock creatively bankrupt? Yes, there will always be the bands who play "in the style of" and continue the sound of the 70s. But, given the loose definition of Progressive Rock, I do think it gives a lot of band who are hard to categorize a place for fans to wrap their minds around it. While Prog is full of retro prog bands, there are certainly other bands who do their own thing and aren't much representing the 70s sound.

It is only natural that retro prog becomes a big thing, given that as we get older, we get more set in the things we like and want more of it. Also, as bands get older, they tend to be less creative, often stopping making new music at all, either because they don't have the drive or the market isn't there. Personally, I find nothing wrong with that.

That being said, I'm also the kind of guy who describes my music taste as someone who likes good music. It happens that much of it is considered in the Progressive Rock genre, but not exclusively.

[miamiscot]

Prog's Not Dead

(well, maybe it is but it will always live in my heart...)

[Supersonic Scientist]

Ref: Bruce Jenner pic


Close this thread now...

[Shadow]

Ref: Bruce Jenner pic


Close this thread now...

That is the new face of PROG! Don't know what direction to go.

[progeezer]

As was stated previously (paraphrased), subjective good & bad is all there is.

Any discussion beyond that is inevitably circular and as productive as what comes out of The Donald's mouth.

That said, while my forensics days are blissfully over, have at it, kids!

[JKL2000]

<<In my humble opinion.

If you think I'm wrong, I'd love to hear something to change my mind.>>

Sorry, I'm not interested in your rotten bait.

[mozo-pg]

You accomplished your goal of stirring up a bee's nest. Some thoughtful posts though.

[Dave (in MA)]

[REDACTED]

[Dave (in MA)]

Progarchives public forum is a dying place

Maybe the fact that so many of the progarchives twits insist on including half a page of animated blinking gifs used as their .sigs, might have something to do with it. It certainly discourages me from going their more than once in a blue moon.

I can't believe I typed "their". What an idiot

[NogbadTheBad]

[Vic2012]

^

Where do you get those?

[moecurlythanu]

^

Where do you get those?

progarchivestwits.com/downloads

[NogbadTheBad]

https://media.giphy.com/media/UtE9jtei0w5G0/giphy.gif

[zumacraig]

I like Neal Morse's definition of 'prog'. He sees it as one part of a song progressing to another and so on. Makes sense given the music he makes. Stuff that is supposed to be 'really progressive' usually is dissonant and unlistenable to me. The evolution of music doesn't necessarily mean it's progressing the medium. There's only so much that can be done with the instrumentation and musical notes available for creating music.

The latest third wave stuff has acquiesced in to this reverb heavy light metal with a shitty singer and maybe a keyboard. There's tons and tons of these bands. In the 70s there were less than 50 prog bands, no? I like a compelling melody that sticks with me and solos and musical sections that are at least compelling and hopefully visceral. One thing I don't get is calling all these bands retro. In some ways they are, but none sound as 'good' as the 70s stuff. I wish the scene would progress towards better production integrating the best of the retro sound (warm, immediate) and the best technology we have.

IMHO

[Phlakaton]

Listen to the latest Yugen, Schnellertollermeier, the Celler and Point, the Blue ship (all records from the past two years) and come back here. See if you still think progressive is dead.

Yup. There is some totally badass stuff out there - Yugen and Cellar are two that resonate bigtime - Cellar is to my ears something different - derivative - yes - but a new angle on things for me. Dead - no way.