Not necessarily. Depends on when the loudness was added. If there's still an uncompressed master somewhere, or multi-tracks, it is possible but anything that has been compressed is almost impossible to decompress.Originally Posted by zumacraig
Not necessarily. Depends on when the loudness was added. If there's still an uncompressed master somewhere, or multi-tracks, it is possible but anything that has been compressed is almost impossible to decompress.
Compression creates distortion, analog or CD. So I don't know what you are describing. There is no reason for compression in digital. In fact the first digital production I bought was Stravinsky's Firebird suite on vinyl. This piece had really huge bass peaks that you could see in grooves.
It's a different game now. Physical sales will never be what they were in "1979," but you can bet that when the major labels start pressing vinyl again, there is a resurgence and money there.
Actually if an analog compression with a smooth non-linear tube like gain curve is used, it can be inverted, of course all assumes high SNR. Remember DBX, there were some records recorded with it:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dbx_(noise_reduction)
This is my take on this question. Regarding the vinyl revival...artists in almost all genres of music are issuing a vinyl counterpart. That says something about the revival of vinyl. So, yes I think there is a revival. Statistics regarding the sales of turntables indicates that too. Regarding which sounds better; I still have around 500 lp's that I play often on my Linn turntable, but I play the CD's even more just for the matter of convenience. Many of the CD's I bought were replacing (suposedly) the LP's I had for years, so I can compare regularlly the vinyl version with the CD version. Conclusion: when I really have the time and want to enjoy music, I play de Lp's; when i'm in a hurry and want to listen to more music, then I play the CD's. To me there is no contest when making a comparison of the same record (vinyl sounds better). I remember once a girlfriend who's favorite record was (and is) The Myths and Legend of King Arthur (by Rick Wakeman). She entered the room and I was playing the CD version of that record (she didn't know that was the CD version) and ask me why it sounded so bad, then I told her it was the CD version. That's my two cents worth opinion.
I know why vinyl is being revived. The baby boomers are passing away and leaving their records to kids who are really adults. Their kids aren't as well off and find it cheaper to "burn" that vinyl to a low cost turntable with a USB output[emoji6]
Fine, but is the reason the record sounds better, the transducers or the CD. I have a Ortofon MC3 high output moving cartridge and a Yamaha PX3 turntable (tangential tone arm) and I transferred Peter Gabriel's Live record to digital. My friend said it sounded great. To me it was too bright and nowhere sounded as natural as the CD. Some of my friends have lost their high freq hearing with age or abuse.
Then we'd just say "Phil's inability to defend himself robbed us of the chance to hear the few good songs on the post-Hackett albums."
Don't know about prog being helped by the new interest in vinyl. Metal/hard rock/retrorock/stoner on the other hand have totally taken the new vinyl interest to heart, so much so that certain bands are releasing new stuff on 7" and LP first, then later on CD. And some metal/hard rock/retro/stoner bands are having trouble meeting the demand for vinyl, for example, it took me almost a year from the release date before I finally found a copy of the first Blues Pills LP. They were simply selling out as soon as they hit the shops (both street and web).
Last edited by PeterG; 06-13-2016 at 09:23 AM.
well, yes, it's novelty for the hipsters - especially those feeling like shitting over their parents' music (on CDs) and going to to the grandpârents' music (on vinyl)... then, there are the crusty ol' nostalgic curmudgeon progheads ... nott a novelty for them
This would also highly depend on where the vinyl was pressed... not sure an Indonesian vinyl pressing of VdGG sounds any better than either the muddy first gen CD or the badly remastered ones.
OK, speakers can definitely alter music coloration, but cartridges?? First time I hear this...
Sort of makes sense, because after all, it's the second link in the hi-Fi chain , right after the stylus and before the amp or pre-amp.
So Phil ruined internet, as well??I'm going to write a science fiction novel in which someone goes back in time to kill Phil Collins just after the release of Wind and Wuthering. This creates a utopian future free of all the things Phil Collins has ruined.
Well, if the gatefolds are interesting, I go for the Mini-Lp vinyl replica... solves my itch, anyways...
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
sounds like a desperate attempt of staying alive in the ballgame until a solution is found...
But also, given the vinyl prices, the profit margins are much higher than for CDs
Also, in 79, the music wasn't nearly as international as it is today.... I'd say that by 79 there was at least two and half continent's worth of inhabitants that still had no access to record shop... let alone electricity.
Furthermore, I don't know why the date of 79 springs up (even for vinyl-only figues >> I'd say 82 with Thriller would top 79, despite the musicassette boom), because I believe the 90's were the apex of solid-medium music sales
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
http://fortune.com/2016/04/16/vinyl-...ord-store-day/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_revival
Two pretty interesting pages. Almost 12 million units sold in the US alone is nothing to sneeze at.
For me, it's pretty simple. I hope more prog finds it's way to vinyl, past, present and future.
The older I get, the better I was.
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2523734/th...ALES-900.jpg?5
I don't know why that chart always comes up. The vinyl resurgence is not about how many millions are sold now than vs. the days when it was the dominant format, it's about how many vinyl records are sold as a proportion of the overall sales of physical media. Record stores now devote as much space or more to vinyl over CD, because they *need* to, not because they want to. It's what people who shop at record stores are buying.
Yup, just like in the late 70's pre-recorded musicassettes were solidly eating away at vinyl's shares.
music formats.jpg
Lotsa people blame the CD to have killed the vinyl, but it's actually the cassette that did so (not totally, though)... and the Cd killed the cassette (for good)
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
Well these 60+ years' old ears are pretty shot from listening to both recorded and live music for so many years, so I'll never pretend to be an expert on the sonic qualities of vinyl vs CD.
However, I have to hand it to those marketing guys once more; new releases on 180g vinyl, usually double gatefold, complete with a free CD copy, and if you buy at the right time and from the right source only a few quid more than the CD only.
In this listen anywhere age, that gives me vinyl for the man-cave; CD for the car, and again CD for uploading to the iPod. All in one purchase.
I'm loving it.
She walks like a bearded rainbow.
Do you have any links that back up this claim? It's contrary to everything I've ever heard or read, and contrary to my own experience.
Aren't "smooth" and "non-linear" pretty much opposites?
Well yes, physically changing the waveforms from what was recorded is technically "distorting" it but what I meant is that waveforms can hit 0dB in digital and be reproduced exactly as written -- something vinyl isn't capable of, due to the impossibility of moving a stylus that fast and that far. Because of this ability to encode loudness without waveform distortion, engineers discovered that compressing digital recordings made them sound better to most people (and sound better on cheaper stereos) so the Loudness Wars began.
"Huge bass peaks" on vinyl still had to be brickwall filtered below 50Hz and subjected to the RIAA pre-EQ in order to create a navigable LP groove. No such limitation exists on CD.
Telarc released several early CDs with warnings about high SPLs and warning of speaker damage if played too loud, but when you look at the waveforms they encoded on the discs they are oversaturated -- with clipping (waveform distortion) built-in. That's why they sound loud even when played back at minimal volume.
Last edited by rcarlberg; 06-13-2016 at 05:59 PM.
I have the same turntable/cartridge combination and love it! I have NAD amplification and the Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers. A nice little system that didn't break the bank.
Possible Worlds http://www.possibleworldsband.com
1) Just noticed your avatar - maybe we need a thread on classical music and prog - how much of a crossover really?
2) I think you hit it right in the head - our systems are sensible and great sounding - audiophiles can get pretty crazy - we just like good sound....
v
Telarc recordings never sound loud. How do you know what gave there, the analog section of the CD player or the preamp?Well yes, physically changing the waveforms from what was recorded is technically "distorting" it but what I meant is that waveforms can hit 0dB in digital and be reproduced exactly as written -- something vinyl isn't capable of, due to the impossibility of moving a stylus that fast and that far. Because of this ability to encode loudness without waveform distortion, engineers discovered that compressing digital recordings made them sound better to most people (and sound better on cheaper stereos) so the Loudness Wars began.
"Huge bass peaks" on vinyl still had to be brickwall filtered below 50Hz and subjected to the RIAA pre-EQ in order to create a navigable LP groove. No such limitation exists on CD.
Telarc released several early CDs with warnings about high SPLs and warning of speaker damage if played too loud, but when you look at the waveforms they encoded on the discs they are oversaturated -- with clipping (waveform distortion) built-in. That's why they sound loud even when played back at minimal volume.
Then all you have to do is look at total sales and determine the percentage. CDs are still the major 'proportion' of music sales.
I understand that, but that's where vinyl has gained significantly, and continues to gain. Vinyl revenues continue to gain significantly against the CD and will continue to do so for the forseeable future, as CD sales continue to crater and vinyl sales continue to increase.
What are total (high def, downloads, real time stream) digital sales vs vinyl? I suspect vinyl is puny and there is a trend towards more real time stream sales versus downloads or CDs.
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