Most Un-Prog Song Ever?

[StevegSr]

MacArthur Park by Richard Harris:https://youtu.be/iplpKwxFH2I

[moecurlythanu]

[Digital_Man]

I disagree with Macarthur Park. I think that's actually very prog for a pop song especially for the time.

[Baribrotzer]

MacArthur Park by Richard Harris: https://youtu.be/iplpKwxFH2I

I'd say quite the opposite: In spite of coming out of California, being something closer to a micro-sized Broadway musical than any kind of rock 'n roll, and using a real orchestra instead of Moog, Hammond, and Mellotron, it was a big influence on early prog. Seven minutes long? Check. Multiple bridges? Check. A middle section that's really more like another song of its own? Check. Elaborate musical development? Check. A generally grandiose esthetic? Check. Impenetrable lyrics? Check. An impassioned but vocally so-so singer? Check.

What about it isn't prog?

[Digital_Man]

^ Yes, the influence on early prog is evidenced by the fact that Beggar's Opera(an English "proto prog" band) did a cover of it.

[rcarlberg]

I’d say you can’t get less prog than this

I am old and PC and feminist enough to ask, why the HELL is hip hop so misogynist?

[Baribrotzer]

I am old and PC and feminist enough to ask, why the HELL is hip hop so misogynist?

The best explanation I can give is that a lot of hip-hop is about projecting a persona - a rapper rapping "in character". And a lot of the time that specific character is the Ultimate Alpha Male: a Bad Boy From The Mean Streets, for whom the world is there for the taking. He can steal anything he desires, beat any man that crosses his path, and have any woman he wants. So, since women are a dime-a-dozen to him and instantly replaceable, he can treat them with contempt and suffer no consequences.

[WeepingElf]

Can at least brings in some ethnic influences and adventurous rhythms -- although I'd call them more "Krautrock" than "prog."

Indeed Can were Krautrock, not prog. Some people say that Krautrock was just German prog of the '70s, but it is not as simple as that. Sure, there are similarities: the intent to create art rather than just entertainment, the breaking out of the mould of the pop single, the experimentation with novel sounds and technologies, the progressive mind set. That is quite a list of things common to both. But there are also important differences, mainly that Krautrock relies on the repetition of simple patterns rather than on structured multi-part forms. You need not be schizophrenic to like one and to dislike the other or vice versa. There is also actual German prog of the '70s from bands such as Eloy, Hölderlin or Novalis, even if the boundary between German prog and Krautrock is not always easy to draw.

There is also a dark "yin" to the bright and colourful "yang" of prog, however - a tradition ranging from the Velvet Underground via Throbbing Gristle and Einstürzende Neubauten to Tool, Meshuggah, Mastodon and their ilk. A kind of artistic rock music that, as opposed to the socially progressive prog, is cynical and nihilistic. Whatever it may be named. This "yin" current is mostly not right-wing (rather, pessimistic about the possibility of social progress), but there are some far-right artists in this tradition such as Von Thronstahl and Sol Invictus.

[rcarlberg]

The best explanation I can give is that a lot of hip-hop is about projecting a persona - a rapper rapping "in character". And a lot of the time that specific character is the Ultimate Alpha Male: a Bad Boy From The Mean Streets, for whom the world is there for the taking. He can steal anything he desires, beat any man that crosses his path, and have any woman he wants. So, since women are a dime-a-dozen to him and instantly replaceable, he can treat them with contempt and suffer no consequences.

Doesn't really answer the question of why it's so popular... even among women.

[syncopatico]

Doesn't really answer the question of why it's so popular... even among women.

because people are stupid.

[Zeuhlmate]

[moecurlythanu]

^ That one did come to mind too.

[Baribrotzer]

Doesn't really answer the question of why it's so popular... even among women.

Because lots of guys want to be that kind of Alpha Male. It's the whole image of the macho outlaw. What you're hearing is the sound of Joe Sixpack's fantasy life. And women - or at least some of them - are just crazy about Alpha Males and think they can domesticate a macho outlaw with love.

[Mike D]

Well, this is a strange thread. That's saying something for this place.

To the O.P. do you mean the most un-prog song by a prog band? Or, do you mean the most un-prog song by anyone, period? Because the latter is so wide open as to be meaningless.

But don't let me spoil anyone's fun. There are already some good posts on hip hop. This is a confusing genre for anyone who didn't grow up with it and that would include me. The best of that stuff might just be up there with the most progressive music of this era, even though a lot of it might grate against what I want to consider as music.

[rcarlberg]

because people are stupid.

Sig file!

[Progbear]

Because it's another form of art-rock. It's like the Velvets: They were trumpeted by the hip critics as "an authentic American rock 'n roll band, of great purity and passion" (very close to an exact quote from somewhere), and not generally recognized as the other branch of art-rock - the one coming out of the New York art world, with well-documented ties to Beat poetry and classical Minimalism. But I'd argue that they were no less artistically calculated and no more "genuine" or "spontaneous" than any prog band - they just sounded cruder, so they were viewed as the real deal, as some sort of artistically deep, very intelligent garage band.

See also: Slapp Happy, who did the same thing with pop music. On the surface, there’s nothing different here that was on the top 40 hit parade of the day (apart from Dagmar’s rather...odd vocals). Then you look deeper and find lyrics about Arthur Rimbaud, Michelangelo, etc. etc.

[Soc Prof]

The Dead Kennedys, "I Like Short Songs." Here are the lyrics:

Rick Wakeman, eat your heart out.
I like short songs (repeat 13 x)

[The Dark Elf]

[regenerativemusic]

Richard Harris on SCTV

[moecurlythanu]

^ Fail. It's about smokin' dope.

Edit: Jesus. <sigh> The Pass the Dutchie, that is.

[The Dark Elf]

^ Fail. It's about smokin' dope.

Edit: Jesus. <sigh> The Pass the Dutchie, that is.

There aren't a large amount of prog songs concerning smoking pot that I can recall. Particularly prog songs with a pseudo-reggae theme singing about smoking dope. With grade school kids as band members.

[moecurlythanu]

There aren't a large amount of prog songs concerning smoking pot that I can recall. Particularly prog songs with a pseudo-reggae theme singing about smoking dope. With grade school kids as band members.

Irrelevant. The fans trump the subject matter...Next!

[Big Ears]

Musical Youth were produced by Peter Collins.

[GuitarGeek]

Because it's another form of art-rock. It's like the Velvets: They were trumpeted by the hip critics as "an authentic American rock 'n roll band, of great purity and passion" (very close to an exact quote from somewhere), and not generally recognized as the other branch of art-rock - the one coming out of the New York art world, with well-documented ties to Beat poetry and classical Minimalism. But I'd argue that they were no less artistically calculated and no more "genuine" or "spontaneous" than any prog band - they just sounded cruder, so they were viewed as the real deal, as some sort of artistically deep, very intelligent garage band.

Well, when you consider that they were managed by Wes Warhammer, you have to reckon there had to be something (ahem) "artistic" going on there.

[GuitarGeek]

The frell is this? Amateur hour?! You guys need to spend some time exploring the dregs of pop music, which you clearly haven't.


Appearing in a German softcore picture doesn't make you "prog" (whatever the frell that is)

No, having a former Lucifer's Friend/future Uriah Heep vocalist in your group doesn't make you "prog" either

And certainly singing a song associated with the Bellamy Brothers in German still doesn't make you "prog".