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Thread: Bandcamp, Apple and the end of downloads

  1. #1

    Bandcamp, Apple and the end of downloads

    Well, this was nice to see.

    https://blog.bandcamp.com/2016/05/19...bright-future/

    In light of a recent report that Apple will soon abandon music downloads (later denied, but undoubtedly containing a certain amount of inevitability), we thought we’d take a moment to update you on the state of Bandcamp’s business and our plans for the future.

    Bandcamp grew by 35% last year. Fans pay artists $4.3 million dollars every month using the site, and they buy about 25,000 records a day, which works out to about one every 4 seconds ...

    Subscription-based music streaming,* on the other hand, has yet to prove itself to be a viable model, even after hundreds of millions of investment dollars raised and spent. For our part, we are committed to offering an alternative that we know works.

  2. #2
    facetious maximus Yves's Avatar
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    Right on Bandcamp! My favorite source for music by a wide margin...
    "Corn Flakes pissed in. You ranted. Mission accomplished. Thread closed."

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  3. #3
    I guess this is where I yell "Get off my lawn".

    I listen to albums in their entirety and this streaming crap can go away. It's as simple as that but I'm a dying breed.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoony View Post
    I listen to albums in their entirety and this streaming crap can go away. It's as simple as that but I'm a dying breed.
    It has nothing to do with being a dinosaur. It's because streaming is too clumsy and impractical. I was honestly surprised (though I probably shouldn't have been) to see the comments about Apple abandoning downloads someday, even if they're vaguely kind-of disputing the rumors and it's not imminent yet. They seem to seriously think streaming can get adopted as an exclusive method to the point where there'll be no need to offer anything else. Really? I still don't see it. There's no sense in depending on something that data-intensive, which the listener can use only when there's a steady net connection... and that's leaving aside that the economic model just doesn't work.
    Last edited by Spiral; 09-07-2016 at 04:17 PM.

  5. #5
    With streaming you do not need a constant connection, your subscription allows downloads to your device for off stream listening. I don't use it myself of course but my kids have subscriptions.


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    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Already a big bandcamp fan in terms the best of the download platforms, this just reinforces them as one of my favorites.
    Ian

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  7. #7
    I like bandcamp and am not knocking it, but come on:

    "Subscription-based music streaming,* on the other hand, has yet to prove itself to be a viable model, even after hundreds of millions of investment dollars raised and spent."

    This is ridiculous. Subscription based music streaming will be the dominant way that music is heard, and that will likely happen inside of 5 years. There will come a time where today's subscription-based music services will be viewed by future generations as "the beginning of how things are now."

  8. #8
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Bandcamp is the only newfangled service I allow on my lawn. It caters to CD fans, download fans, and streaming fans, and in the case of Bandcamp I'm all three.

  9. #9
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    This is ridiculous. Subscription based music streaming will be the dominant way that music is heard, and that will likely happen inside of 5 years. There will come a time where today's subscription-based music services will be viewed by future generations as "the beginning of how things are now."
    I think this is correct for younger generations, and for us NEAR oldsters, Bandcamp is a great transitional platform. Halfway between CD needer and streamer.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunlight Caller View Post
    With streaming you do not need a constant connection, your subscription allows downloads to your device for off stream listening.
    Didn't know that; I stand corrected. I'm not sure how that works with the low storage of most devices, but maybe that's something that'll change again in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    Subscription based music streaming will be the dominant way that music is heard, and that will likely happen inside of 5 years. There will come a time where today's subscription-based music services will be viewed by future generations as "the beginning of how things are now."
    How do you see that happening, then? Do you think customers will start paying more?

  11. #11
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiral View Post
    How do you see that happening, then?
    A lot like Netflix I'd imagine.

  12. #12
    facetious maximus Yves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    A lot like Netflix I'd imagine.
    I believe that is the goal. To make you pay per month and then search the music you want for unlimited streaming. If it comes to that, and I can find all the music I want, I guess I'd have to go that route. But for now, buying downloads works for me.
    "Corn Flakes pissed in. You ranted. Mission accomplished. Thread closed."

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiral View Post
    Didn't know that; I stand corrected. I'm not sure how that works with the low storage of most devices, but maybe that's something that'll change again in the future?


    How do you see that happening, then? Do you think customers will start paying more?
    No. Less, if anything.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiral View Post
    Didn't know that; I stand corrected. I'm not sure how that works with the low storage of most devices, but maybe that's something that'll change again in the future?
    I think hardly any of the kids bother about whole albums, they just cherry pick their current favourite songs and grow bored of them quite quickly, such is the ephemeral nature of pop music.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    No. Less, if anything.
    I don't think that this will have as immediate of an impact on people with strong interests in new music by bands playing styles of music with no chance to have much commercial success (many people in here), and I believe that physical media will occupy a niche market for many years to come, but if we've learned anything over the years, the consumption habits of progressive rock fans are not driving the markets on these issues. That became very apparent to me with the phasing out of high-memory portable devices a few years ago. Although I believe that we're just in a technological holding pattern in that regard (computer memory increases becoming cheaper and smaller with each passing year has been a constant for as long as there has been computers, so TB-level phones are probably not too far away), the message being sent was loud and fairly clear, IMO: personal digital music libraries are not where the future lies. The response by the masses has largely been supportive. People first went to the cloud and now they use Spotify.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    A lot like Netflix I'd imagine.
    That's a good description, but also illustrates why the math won't work. At an initial guess, I'd have to say the 'content providers' (wow, do I hate that phrase) are exponentially more numerous while the customers are less willing to pay. There could very well be fewer customers too.... I'd be curious to see if there are any stats on the numbers of streaming listeners vs. streaming TV viewers.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiral View Post
    That's a good description, but also illustrates why the math won't work. At an initial guess, I'd have to say the 'content providers' (wow, do I hate that phrase) are exponentially more numerous while the customers are less willing to pay. There could very well be fewer customers too.... I'd be curious to see if there are any stats on the numbers of streaming listeners vs. streaming TV viewers.
    Not the exact numbers you were looking for, but:

    US music consumers streamed 317 billion songs in 2015, mostly on Spotify and Apple.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mu...0UK2G620160106


    In 2015, 2.6 million US households were "broadband only" insofar as television viewing.
    http://time.com/3615387/tv-viewershi...ining-nielsen/

    My guess would be that, in 2015, there were roughly 5-10X as many music streamers in the US as video streamers.

    But video streaming is the future of TV as well - television broadcasting as we know it will probably be gone forever in 10-15 years.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    My guess would be that, in 2015, there were roughly 5-10X as many music streamers in the US as video streamers.
    Hmmmm. The best quick rundown I found was here, which lists the top music services and says their users add up to about 180 million (minus any overlaps and without knowing how to factor in Youtube). No wonder it's impossible to really compare.

  19. #19
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yves View Post
    I believe that is the goal. To make you pay per month and then search the music you want for unlimited streaming. If it comes to that, and I can find all the music I want, I guess I'd have to go that route. But for now, buying downloads works for me.
    "and I can find all the music I want" would be the important part. Yeah, if I could I'd probably gladly pay for such a service. But seeing how INCREDIBLY limited Netflix's selection is, and also how totally inadequate every streaming service I've tried is, it will be a long time coming. Even though I don't like the album, I usually check streaming services to see if they have Edith's "A Space Between Ever and Never." Somehow I see that as a bar I've set mentally. But jeez, they'd have to somehow have indie releases, and there are so many they'd never know of. Remember that band called Salem, that sounded a lot like Jethro Tull? I'll bet no streaming service is ever gonna have their CD.

  20. #20
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    But seeing how INCREDIBLY limited Netflix's selection is, and also how totally inadequate every streaming service I've tried is, it will be a long time coming.
    This, this, a thousand times over. The selection on the music streaming services is spotty and the sound quality is not exactly stellar. And don't get me started on streaming movies. Every goddamn time we think of a movie we wanted to see and check Netflix it's not there. Check Amazon, might not be there OR they want you to buy a digital version for $19.99 because the movie studio doesn't want it streamed for $3.99. Remind me again Amazon, what am I paying you Prime for?
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  21. #21
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    This, this, a thousand times over. The selection on the music streaming services is spotty and the sound quality is not exactly stellar. And don't get me started on streaming movies. Every goddamn time we think of a movie we wanted to see and check Netflix it's not there. Check Amazon, might not be there OR they want you to buy a digital version for $19.99 because the movie studio doesn't want it streamed for $3.99. Remind me again Amazon, what am I paying you Prime for?
    I think Netflix is great when they have what you want (and at CURRENT prices). What gets me is how video stores with HVS tapes used to have better selections. Netflix seems not to have heard of Classics. Are there ANY black & white movies on Netflix ever?

    Also, if their rates go up significantly (which I hear they soon will), that will just push me more toward torrents.

  22. #22
    Member lak611's Avatar
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    If it were not for this site I never would have heard of Bandcamp.

    I'll check it out, but I don't know how much I'll use it. I already have a subscription to Google Play Music. I got rid of Spotify and switched to Google Play Music, since that also includes ad-free YouTube.

    I also subscribe to Netflix and haven't had cable TV for over 10 years.

    I mainly stream Google Play Music while I'm at the gym.

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    Laura

  23. #23
    Pendulumswingingdoomsday Rune Blackwings's Avatar
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    hate streaming. they rarely have obscure music. you are subject to if you can get to the streaming. it uses up data. and if you get hacked, suspended or whatever, you lose all your music. Apple is becoming a bunch of fucking dicks-first with telling an entire demographic to fuck off by eliminating ipod classic, now with this no music download bullshit. fuck Apple.
    "Alienated-so alien I go!"

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    Member lak611's Avatar
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    The gym I belong to has WiFi, and I have a 30 GB/month data plan.

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  25. #25
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    This is ridiculous. Subscription based music streaming will be the dominant way that music is heard, and that will likely happen inside of 5 years. There will come a time where today's subscription-based music services will be viewed by future generations as "the beginning of how things are now."
    ..............When the technology drastically improves (as well as having almost limitless global databases at any users disposal), streaming will more than likely boomerang and dominate because the need for actual files (FLAC, MP3, etc) will no longer be necessary , much in the same way MIDI has returned with a vengeance in music creation thanks to the drastic technological improvements of VSTi instruments, but we arent there yet, not by a long shot........................

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