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Thread: Hackett reflects on his departure from Genesis!

  1. #51
    Member Rick Robson's Avatar
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    I agree with people here who would rather stay out of senseless discussions about the artistic merit of any of Genesis former member works. This regardless of the fact that all the statements by Hackett about his departure so far don't give the slightest space for such grumpy arguments by the media and as seen by many music forum members.
    "Beethoven can write music, thank God, but he can do nothing else on earth. ". Ludwig van Beethoven

  2. #52
    There are some really great tunes on Still and I'm not even talking about the songs Fish sang on.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oreb View Post
    I think it's sad that Hacket is still going on about a job he lost 40 years ago.

    But not as sad as posters here who have developed their own Good Guys and Bad Guys narrative around events they have absolutely no first-hand knowledge of whatsoever.
    Spot on. Happens every time Hackett is discussed...it's bizarre really

  4. #54
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    ^It didn't. Not aware of a 'TV show theme' that did, although certainly, in the late 70s/early 80s, his Charisma solo albums had a devoted following in the UK and Europe.
    I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here... It's a BBC show (not even sure whether it's radio or TV), and I don't know it's name either §but Second Chance appears to be a US TV show)

    But from what I heard, it's brought him a fair bit of royalties (through airplay, I guess) and I didn't find a single release
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  5. #55
    Member Rick Robson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here... It's a BBC show (not even sure whether it's radio or TV), and I don't know it's name either §but Second Chance appears to be a US TV show)

    But from what I heard, it's brought him a fair bit of royalties (through airplay, I guess) and I didn't find a single release
    Whatever BBC Show it might have been their taste was nothing pop wise about picking Second Chance.
    "Beethoven can write music, thank God, but he can do nothing else on earth. ". Ludwig van Beethoven

  6. #56
    Member Rick Robson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Another was 'Tales From The Riverbank'.

    Anthony Phillips has had the more lucrative career when it comes to TV work.
    I would say likewise about 'Tales From The Riverbank'.
    "Beethoven can write music, thank God, but he can do nothing else on earth. ". Ludwig van Beethoven

  7. #57
    Member 2steves's Avatar
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    I don't think there are bad or good guys but the fact that Tony and Mike decided they would't tour with the Seconds Out line up bothers me as I thought it was an amazing period. Only wanting to be a part of a Peter tour. Also Tony has taken some nasty swipes at Steve---minimizing his influence but has recently back peddled from that

  8. #58
    As much as i admire Hackett for his playing, writing and general all-round good guy reputation, it was his decision to leave Genesis. He wasn't pushed. Naturally he wanted to branch out and perform his own music but at the end of the day, he did abandon the Genesis

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Robson View Post
    As already of public acknowledgement, making pop music never was his cup of tea.



    While I can just partially agree with you, Hackett's singing skills and style were not bad at all, regardless whether liking or not liking his vocals. I'll give you just one example: one can perfectly realize what I mean by listening Serpentine Song.
    Yes, he can sing certain types of songs. But on the other hand, his singing for the most part is not on par with PC, PG or the two guys from Mike and the Mechanics. I am kind of glad it turned out that way as it probably kept him more on the instrumental side of things.

  10. #60
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    As a musician who played many a Genesis song in his day during the 80's to early 90's, I used to look forward to playing their tunes - as opposed to alot of other stuff that was out there in the 80's - We did Abacab, Home By the sea, Land of confusion, Invisible touch- and probably a couple more I can recall. While they weren't incredible songs, at least we respected the musicians, so that it was not as bad as it would have been, had we just played straight pop. The Genesis made many a bad night, seem just a little brighter. What I wouldnt give for a Genesis hit nowadays. as opposed to what is out there now...(shudder)

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Robson View Post
    I would say likewise about 'Tales From The Riverbank'.
    I don't think they used his version for the TV show - it dates to the 1960s. Though maybe have changed to his when they made some new episodes in the Nineties.
    So could be Second Chance but I've no idea if it was on BBC or not. What was on the BBC in the Eighties was Hooked. I didn't realise it was him until much later as I was only little at the time but the theme tune did stick in my head. So when I first heard Defector years later I recognised The Show as the theme to a fishing show.
    I'm sure there were other bits borrowed for TV, there is mention of something for a Yehudi Menuhin programme but I have no idea what it was.
    Other than GTR none of his singles sold very well so although he might have made some money from a theme tune it wouldn't have been from single sales.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Robson View Post
    While I can just partially agree with you, Hackett's singing skills and style were not bad at all, regardless whether liking or not liking his vocals. I'll give you just one example: one can perfectly realize what I mean by listening Serpentine Song.
    May I just say that I LOVE Serpentine Song ? It's filled with such grace and elegance. And SH's singing fits in well indeed.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Interstellar View Post
    May I just say that I LOVE Serpentine Song ? It's filled with such grace and elegance. And SH's singing fits in well indeed.
    Agreed, completely -- and songs like that make me unhappy that Mr Hackett feels the need to "process" his voice so much in concert.
    Cobra handling and cocaine use are a bad mix.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by 2steves View Post
    I don't think there are bad or good guys but the fact that Tony and Mike decided they would't tour with the Seconds Out line up bothers me as I thought it was an amazing period. Only wanting to be a part of a Peter tour. Also Tony has taken some nasty swipes at Steve---minimizing his influence but has recently back peddled from that
    It wasn't just Tony and Mike's decision. Phil was involved in that too. Consider that for the majority of their career, and perhaps what they themselves might consider their best years as a band, it was just the three of them.

    And I'm curious what "nasty swipes" you're referring to, because I've yet to see any. Tony is just as critical of his own work as he is anyone else's.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturgeon's Lawyer View Post
    Agreed, completely -- and songs like that make me unhappy that Mr Hackett feels the need to "process" his voice so much in concert.
    Oh, I wasn't aware he did that. You're right, there's really not a need for it.

    This thread reminds me I need to go back and listen to some SH solo stuff. It has been too long.

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by firth5th View Post
    They didn't want to say no.

    They were both pricks about it.

    Collins wouldn't stick around for additional takes.

    Rutherford in his book last year called it " a decent album" and complained that Steve never paid him and Phil for the session work.
    Is it really more than "decent?"

    He didn't pay them? Then I'd say they have a right to complain.

  17. #67
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2steves View Post
    I don't think there are bad or good guys but the fact that Tony and Mike decided they would't tour with the Seconds Out line up bothers me as I thought it was an amazing period. Only wanting to be a part of a Peter tour. Also Tony has taken some nasty swipes at Steve---minimizing his influence but has recently back peddled from that
    The short-lived four-piece lineup was hardly an option. With PG and the classic five-man lineup, the idea was to do The Lamb show (and I assume a couple of encore pieces). When PG decided not to do it, the idea was obviously scrapped, as Phil wanted to drum, but had no desire to sing it. Including Hackett at that point would have limited them to 1971-1977 stuff, which would hardly be a draw beyond a few thousand progheads in each city. Despite what some people want to think, the mass ticket-buying audience does not know or care what "Eleventh Earl Of Mar" is, and to do the kind of tour they would have wanted to do, they needed mass ticket sales. The trio lineup was the only one that made sense at that point. Guaranteed ticket sales, no personnel headaches, and touring the music that they were comfortable playing (To be honest, I can't see how they would have pulled off The Lamb either).

    As for these 'nasty swipes', I keep hearing about them, but never actually hearing them. Banks is rather critical, yes, but as someone else mentioned, he's just as critical of himself, and there are many examples of that. In the thirty-plus years I've been devouring Genesis interviews, I've never seen what I'd consider a 'nasty swipe' regarding Steve. Simply opinions, which some outsiders take far too seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    He didn't pay them? Then I'd say they have a right to complain.
    Agreed... although Rutherford's mention of it in his book didn't come across to me as a complaint - merely a statement of fact.
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  18. #68
    Member 2steves's Avatar
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    Hackett agreed to do Seconds out line up or Lamb option----for me a seconds out line up is a viable option

  19. #69
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2steves View Post
    Hackett agreed to do Seconds out line up or Lamb option----for me a seconds out line up is a viable option
    Progatron just explained very succinctly why it wasn't.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    The short-lived four-piece lineup was hardly an option. With PG and the classic five-man lineup, the idea was to do The Lamb show (and I assume a couple of encore pieces). When PG decided not to do it, the idea was obviously scrapped, as Phil wanted to drum, but had no desire to sing it. Including Hackett at that point would have limited them to 1971-1977 stuff, which would hardly be a draw beyond a few thousand progheads in each city. Despite what some people want to think, the mass ticket-buying audience does not know or care what "Eleventh Earl Of Mar" is, and to do the kind of tour they would have wanted to do, they needed mass ticket sales. The trio lineup was the only one that made sense at that point. Guaranteed ticket sales, no personnel headaches, and touring the music that they were comfortable playing (To be honest, I can't see how they would have pulled off The Lamb either).
    Yeah, these are all good points. That said, if it was something that all four of them really wanted to do, I think it could easily be done. Just because it would not be the most profitable way for Genesis to tour does not mean that it could not be profitable at all. This would not put them same-sized arenas that they played on their reunion tour in the late 2000s, but I don't know why they wouldn't be able to play at venues in the 4000 - 10,000 range, depending on the city.

    It just seems clear, though, that there was never much interest in this sort of thing from Collins/Rutherford/Banks. They didn't view a Hackett reunion in the same way as a Gabriel reunion; likely because of what it would have meant for Rutherford and Banks to reunite with Gabriel, they guy they started the band with. The same feelings weren't there for Hackett. You get the feeling, from the interviews, that Collins/Rutherford/Banks didn't necessarily view their post-Hackett material as being as sharp a departure from their past as fans do. Abacab seems to be the only album where they set out to intentionally do something that sounded different (for them). So, it probably would feel very unnatural for those guys to do a tour that limited them to the 1970-1976 albums, so that they could re-create what, in retrospect, was a short, transitional era of their existence. They had already been playing a lot of these songs in tours since 1978 without Hackett anyway, and they probably don't feel that they were any worse for it.

  21. #71
    Member Gerhard's Avatar
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    It would have been nice if they had toured with both Hackett and Stuermer last decade. Do a set with Hackett, concentrating on the 70's material through W&W, and a set with Stuermer, featuring ATTWT and newer.

  22. #72
    Another contributory factor to Hackett's isolation could have been as result of Messrs Banks, Rutherford and Gabriel's English private school experiences, especially the boarding variety. Having been shipped off to one these establishments an early age, the need to develop independence and to be able to emotionally shut-down, is paramount for survival. Products of these schools are unlikely to be the most emotionally demonstrative of individuals and at times their actions can be perceived as verging on the autistic

  23. #73
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    I hate three man Genesis. With a passion. But understand this: Phil didn't kill Genesis, all three of them are guilty of crimes against humanity.
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  24. #74
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    Just because it would not be the most profitable way for Genesis to tour does not mean that it could not be profitable at all. This would not put them same-sized arenas that they played on their reunion tour in the late 2000s, but I don't know why they wouldn't be able to play at venues in the 4000 - 10,000 range, depending on the city.
    Right, but it just isn't their style to go back to the small venues. Not since 1980, anyway, when the first leg of the Duke tour they went back to the small theatres in the UK (that they came up the ranks playing in the early 70s).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerhard View Post
    It would have been nice if they had toured with both Hackett and Stuermer last decade. Do a set with Hackett, concentrating on the 70's material through W&W, and a set with Stuermer, featuring ATTWT and newer.
    Again, I agree. But it's naive for any of us to think they'd be into playing a lot of that stuff. Banks maybe... Collins and Rutherford less so. Particularly Collins, who would almost certainly not want to sing a large portion of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vonta Jitty View Post
    Another contributory factor to Hackett's isolation could have been as result of Messrs Banks, Rutherford and Gabriel's English private school experiences, especially the boarding variety. Having been shipped off to one these establishments an early age, the need to develop independence and to be able to emotionally shut-down, is paramount for survival. Products of these schools are unlikely to be the most emotionally demonstrative of individuals and at times their actions can be perceived as verging on the autistic
    Excellent point. Collins was the happy-go-lucky joker who lightened the mood between those guys and their admittedly petty arguments, and made fast friends. But Hackett was, by all accounts, more quiet and reserved. Had he remained in the band throughout their 80s mega-success, things would be different today. But he never had the same chance to form the bond that the trio have with one another.
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  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Vonta Jitty View Post
    Another contributory factor to Hackett's isolation could have been as result of Messrs Banks, Rutherford and Gabriel's English private school experiences, especially the boarding variety. Having been shipped off to one these establishments an early age, the need to develop independence and to be able to emotionally shut-down, is paramount for survival. Products of these schools are unlikely to be the most emotionally demonstrative of individuals and at times their actions can be perceived as verging on the autistic
    So that's where the "quiet desperation" thing comes from, eh? So I imagine your scouses, your Brummies, your Cockneys, those guys don't have that problem, since the working class types don't get to go to boarding school, do they?

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