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Thread: Symph Prog: Yes! The Symphony: No!

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    Member StevegSr's Avatar
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    Symph Prog: Yes! The Symphony: No!

    Well, to be more precise, I love the classical flourishes, suites, movements and other motifs found in Symphonic style prog, but I never warmed up to listening to classical music straight, either as a piano concerto, or a full blown orchestra performing the 1812 Overture. Does anyone else dig classical music in prog but shun the true classics?
    Last edited by StevegSr; 05-04-2016 at 07:54 PM.
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    Member Sputnik's Avatar
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    Yeah, me. I grew up listening to classical music at home and there is some classical music I like; Holst's The Planets, some Stravinsky, a few other things here or there. But most of it bores me to rages of tears. I've been to Tanglewood, the BSO, Vienna, even subscribed to the Nashville Symphony when we were down there. I've seen great performances of everything from Beethoven to Brahms to Mendelssohn to Mahler to Mozart. Little, if any of it resonates with me. The earlier, the less I like it. Bach I particularly dislike, and Handl and Hayden put me to sleep faster than Sominex.

    I fare a bit better with quartet or small ensemble works, particularly 19th and early 20th century works for saxophone, many of which my wife has played and I found myself enjoying. But overall classical music just doesn't do it for me. I totally respect classical music and realize the kind of talent and dedication required to compose or play that stuff. I just don't largely enjoy listening to it.

    But I love it when rock music borrows elements from classical, in fact that is my favorite kind of music by far. Go figure.

    Bill

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    Member Birdy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    Yeah, me. I grew up listening to classical music at home and there is some classical music I like; Holst's The Planets, some Stravinsky, a few other things here or there. But most of it bores me to rages of tears. I've been to Tanglewood, the BSO, Vienna, even subscribed to the Nashville Symphony when we were down there. I've seen great performances of everything from Beethoven to Brahms to Mendelssohn to Mahler to Mozart. Little, if any of it resonates with me. The earlier, the less I like it. Bach I particularly dislike, and Handl and Hayden put me to sleep faster than Sominex.

    I fare a bit better with quartet or small ensemble works, particularly 19th and early 20th century works for saxophone, many of which my wife has played and I found myself enjoying. But overall classical music just doesn't do it for me. I totally respect classical music and realize the kind of talent and dedication required to compose or play that stuff. I just don't largely enjoy listening to it.

    But I love it when rock music borrows elements from classical, in fact that is my favorite kind of music by far. Go figure.

    Bill
    Pretty much the same with me. The one symphony in particular that I LOVE though is Dvorak's 9th ("From The New World")which is SO melodic and powerful! Every section is great. There are endless things I've "checked out" because I learned that the rock or prog piece that I liked borrowed from classical, such as Renaissance's Cold Is Being track which is taken from Tchaikovsky's 6th(iirc) and such, but usually I can't stay with listening to the whole thing.
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    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    I like some classical music, but it's rarely what I'll choose to listen to, so I guess I'm kind of in the same boat.

    Once we visited Iceland, and drove around the whole ring road there. You see all kind of weird landscapes, glaciers, and interesting things, and we listened to this Grieg CD we had in the car over and over. It included Hall of the Mountain King, and it all fit perfectly. So in a situation like that I really liked some classical music.

    I'm not actually really crazy about orchestras being used in prog recordings. It just doesn't really add that much to me, probably because aside from a soloist, which you rarely get in that kind of thing, orchestras tend to sound pretty much the same to my ears, so the orchestral parts on most rock/prog albums all sound kind of generic to me.

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    Classical music fan here, with some limitations - I generally prefer Twentieth-Century works, whose irregular rhythms and dissonant harmonic language can provide a punch equal to that found in rock. Earlier music often doesn't do it for me. Listen to a good version of The Rite of Spring, for example. Or, for that matter, most Stravinsky.

    Although it's funny, there's a few pieces where I've thought there should be a "prog version". Aaron Copland's Organ Symphony, from 1924, for example, in which Copland uses the organ more as a one-man additional orchestral section than as a concerto soloist. I could have imagined Keith Emerson playing this with ELP or the Nice, although perhaps with an expanded organ part. The first movement's good but rather low-energy, however the second and third kick ass in a rather Gershwin-esque vein.


  6. #6
    When I was 12 I assumed Dennis DeYoung wrote "Little Fugue in G" until I heard my uncle, an organist, play it.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Birdy
    Renaissance's Cold Is Being track which is taken from Tchaikovsky's 6th(iirc)
    It's actually taken from the so-called "Albinoni's Adagio", which is actually not a real work by Albinoni (a Baroque-era Italian composer), but a cleverly done hoax dating back to 1950s IIRC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baribrotzer
    I generally prefer Twentieth-Century works, whose irregular rhythms and dissonant harmonic language can provide a punch equal to that found in rock. Earlier music often doesn't do it for me.
    I see what you mean, but there are a few notable exceptions. Just listen to this piece written in the end of 16th (!) century and tell me its harmonic language isn't strikingly, terrifyingly modern:


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    Member StevegSr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdy View Post
    Renaissance's Cold Is Being track which is taken from Tchaikovsky's 6th(iirc) and such, but usually I can't stay with listening to the whole thing.
    Renaissance is one of my favorite symph prog bands, but I usually skip Cold As Being. Not one of my favorites, but it's probably because it's real classical music!
    To be or not to be? That is the point. - Harry Nilsson.

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    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    I love "classical" probably more than 70% of the stuff discussed here.

  10. #10
    I've never been to an actual live symphonic performance, but my interest in and love of symphonic music (or of other variations: string quartets, solo guitar, solo piano, concertos for any number of different instruments, choral music, opera, etc) is growing and really has only scratched the surface at the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

    It's a different journey for sure, but one well worth taking, at least for me.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    I love "classical" probably more than 70% of the stuff discussed here.
    Same here, if not more.
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    Estimated Prophet notallwhowander's Avatar
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    Good music is good music, man.
    Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world.

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    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    What is "classical?"


    Nah, nevermind...

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    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Same here, if not more.
    I'm being generous - don't want to hurt the proggers feelings

  15. #15
    Certainly prog has increased my appreciation of classical music, not only from those who adapt classical pieces or influence in their music, but also traditionally classical music. While I do try to immerse myself in it at times, I can't say I'm really a fan.

    Course, what I am a fan of are film scores and movie soundtracks. I also like the trend of video game focused orchestras.

  16. #16
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    It really depends on the mood of the day. Sometimes a good symphony is really great. I dont have a deep classical collection, but I do enjoy the basic "Greatest Hits" of Classical music - mostly Beethoven, Mozart, Rossini...Pachelbel Cannon - The stuff a novice would know, but I actually know them in their entirety, I have impressed other classical musicians when I pipe up and say - "Oh thats Motzart - Jupiter symphony" and they say "no, its Bach -blah blah blah... but nice try".... I probably have about 30 Classical CD's - and I listen to one of them about once a month or so.

    I'm not a Huge fan, but I do appreciate the basics. Every so often I hear contemporary Classical music on FM radio, and a lot of it just does not make any sense at all, but the stuff from the last century and back... I'm pretty cool with, even though it would not be my first choice of material. It does slightly beat out classical Jazz though, which is right about even with Big Band swing... Love it all in little pieces -but I'm always ready to move on after a while.

    Probably my Favorite classical work is the Barber of Seville.. - All of it. Not just the bugs bunny parts.

    Someone once said that the definition of an intellectual is a person who can listen to the William Tell overture and not think of the Lone Ranger.... That would NOT be me!

    If you have a classical piece that you think I'd like, make a suggestion - I'm always looking for something new - or old, or whatever.

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    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevegSr View Post
    Does anyone else dig classical music in prog but shun the true classics?
    You have the right terminology at least, "classical music in prog" versus "true classical."

    I was a fan of classical music a long time before classical-influenced prog came out. Always loved the classics (the dynamic, exciting stuff), always will. [Mozart is way too formulaic for me.]

    When The Nice and Ekseption came out in 1967, and "Switched-On Bach" in 1968, and Electrophon in 1973, Tomita in 1974, I liked the fact that classical music was finally being goosed up by non-classical musicians. However, most so-called "classical" rock has no classical elements except occasional keyboard flourishes -- which is not the same -- most of it is nowhere NEAR as sophisticated as even beginner's piano exercises. And I daresay a good many of the keyboardists couldn't play a Bach cantata to save their life.

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    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reginod View Post
    I've never been to an actual live symphonic performance
    You sir have a treat in store for you!

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    Member StevegSr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    You have the right terminology at least, "classical music in prog" versus "true classical."

    And I daresay a good many of the keyboardists couldn't play a Bach cantata to save their life.
    How about Wakeman or the late John Tout?
    To be or not to be? That is the point. - Harry Nilsson.

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    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    It really depends on the mood of the day. Sometimes a good symphony is really great. I dont have a deep classical collection, but I do enjoy the basic "Greatest Hits" of Classical music - mostly Beethoven, Mozart, Rossini...Pachelbel Cannon - The stuff a novice would know, but I actually know them in their entirety, I have impressed other classical musicians when I pipe up and say - "Oh thats Motzart - Jupiter symphony" and they say "no, its Bach -blah blah blah... but nice try".... I probably have about 30 Classical CD's - and I listen to one of them about once a month or so.

    I'm not a Huge fan, but I do appreciate the basics. Every so often I hear contemporary Classical music on FM radio, and a lot of it just does not make any sense at all, but the stuff from the last century and back... I'm pretty cool with, even though it would not be my first choice of material. It does slightly beat out classical Jazz though, which is right about even with Big Band swing... Love it all in little pieces -but I'm always ready to move on after a while.

    Probably my Favorite classical work is the Barber of Seville.. - All of it. Not just the bugs bunny parts.

    Someone once said that the definition of an intellectual is a person who can listen to the William Tell overture and not think of the Lone Ranger.... That would NOT be me!

    If you have a classical piece that you think I'd like, make a suggestion - I'm always looking for something new - or old, or whatever.
    Funny about the Lone Ranger!

    Or listen to Vivaldi's "The Four Seasons" and not think of Chardonnay and cheese.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    Probably my Favorite classical work is the Barber of Seville.. - All of it. Not just the bugs bunny parts.
    I need to fix my reading. I just read Barber and thought of the composer Samuel Barber.

  22. #22
    Progdog ThomasKDye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevegSr View Post
    Well, to be more precise, I love the classical flourishes, suites, movements and other motifs found in Symphonic style prog, but I never warmed up to listening to classical music straight, either as a piano concerto, or a full blown orchestra performing the 1812 Overture. Does anyone else dig classical music in prog but shun the true classics?
    There was this phase I went through in the late nineties where it HAD to be Beethoven. Just Beethoven. I liked the straightforward bombast leading to three-minute-long endings. Then that phase ended, I returned my Mom's CDs to her, and I haven't listened to Beethoven since.

    Apart from that, I'm like you. I like classical influences in prog as one of many tonal colors in the palette. I also have to confess I like rock arrangements of classics, like ELP's various arrangements or Paul Gilbert's take on a Haydn piece:



    I wish there were more of those, but I'll settle for the "classical influence" any day.
    "Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)

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    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevegSr View Post
    How about Wakeman or the late John Tout?
    Wakeman, Emerson and van der Linden were classically trained and are exceptions. Most others -- except maybe Moraz? -- were not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Wakeman, Emerson and van der Linden were classically trained and are exceptions. Most others -- except maybe Moraz? -- were not.
    Emerson? Not really - he did take piano lessons from the lady down the street, but was mostly self-taught.

  25. #25
    My all-time favorite piece of music (The Mission recorded live by the Berlin Philharmonic) is considered straight Classical. However, I generally don't listen to straight Classical very often. Some of the worst recordings of Symph Prog feature orchestras. The one that really comes to mind is "The Symphonic Music of Yes". That was just plain horrible.
    But it can be done right, when both the Prog band and the orchestra collaborate in a balanced manner. "Yes Symphonic Live" (recorded in Amsterdam) is a spectacular example of how it can be done right. That version of The Gates of Delerium simply blows away any other version.

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