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Thread: “Union”- 25 years old

  1. #26
    I recently re-read Bill Martin's book of Yes and consequently listened to it as part of my "re-listening Yes" campaign.
    And I was surprised how not bad it sounds. I'd say at least half of the songs there are strong. They have all Yes elements that we like, including the Voice of Yes!
    And the live videos I saw showed all Yes guys having fun.
    If Union is so bad as How said, I'm wondering what'd he said about the last two miserable disasters that were issues under the glory banner of Yes?

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    RE: MTV introducing people to Yes, I think the only Yes I've ever seen on MTV (and I watched a lot in the day) is the Owner of a Lonely Heart video.

    Is that what others are referring to?
    I think I saw all the Rabin era Yes videos on MTV. I know I saw:

    Owner Of A Lonely Heart
    It Can Happen
    Leave It (there were something like 20 different videos for Leave It)
    Hold On (basically the 9012Live clip, used to promote the 9012Live: The Solos EP)
    Seen All Good People (also from 9012Live)
    Love Will Find A Way (always loved that electric 12 string Rabin plays in this video, also the first place I remember seeing Jon playing his cuatro)
    Rhythm Of Love
    Lift Me Up (which I saw maybe two or three times at the time, then maybe two or three times again during the VH-1 Classic era...had completely forgotten about the acapella intro on the single version)

    Were there any videos for the post-Union albums? I dont' remember seeing any, though I remember seeing them on Letterman when Talk came out, doing Walls, Jon playing cuatro again and Billy Sherwood off to the side strumming away on an acoustic guitar (I remember at first I thought Billy looked a bit like Tommy Shaw).

    Oh and, if we count ABWH, I remember MTV playing the Brother Of Mine video, but I don't think I ever saw the I'm Alive or Order Of The Universe videos anywhere but on the In The Big Dream video release.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Harbottle View Post
    From what I've read, most of them didn't play on the actual song even if they were supposed to be playing on it!
    Yeah, there's no place on the album where all eight band members are heard together. Basically what you have is an ABWH album, with a Yes West EP tacked on. And even then, it's largely believed that Howe and Wakeman aren't really on most of the ABWH material. There's a long list of studio musicians who deputized for Wakeman and possibly also Kaye (one of them being the bass player from Saga...apparently, the studio in LA owned by Saga was one of the ones that was used to record Union, hence he got roped into Jonathan Elias' evil empire). And I've forgotten the name of the studio guy who depped for Howe, but at some point, he did an interview online, and I think he said there's a few places where you hear Howe on that record, but most of the stuff that sounds like Howe is apparently really the studio guy, Masquerade apparently being the main exception.

    I seem to recall at some point a bootleg turned up that had an alternate version of I Would Have Waited Forever that doesn't fade out. It's not much longer, but you do get to hear all of that ride out guitar solo. Still not sure if it's Howe or the studio rat, though.

  4. #29
    BTW, speaking of Yes videos, did we ever figure out what the deal with that Silent Wings Of Freedom video was? It looks like something that might be put out to promote the album, but it seems strange to promote an album by showing clips of them of them breaking down in the middle of a take, and Squire and White talking about how "it doesn't sound as good as the original version" ("original version" presumably meaning "demo").

    the copy I have on a bootleg VHS has chyron at the beginning and end that make it look like it might have been aired on MTV at some point, and the actual footage where they're shown playing the song looks like something that might have been done for a music video, with the entire band playing in one room, w/ Jon not in an iso booth, which is how vocals are generally recording during an actual recording session). But there again, it's an unfinished, with the vocals in the sort of chorus bits missing, presumably to go along with the insinuation that we're watching the band lay down the basic track, before they start adding overdubs.

    So what the frell was this? Was this done for Top Of The Pops or some other TV show, or what? Presumably the chyron was added by some joker after the fact. I can't imagine this actually being shown on MTV as a video, but then, it's kinda disturbing about some of the stuff MTV used to show, viz-a-viz what MTV is now.

  5. #30
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    Top Of The Pops would never have showed that...they had a brief 'album slot' in the very early 70s (to which Yes contributed- long since wiped) but that lasted months, maybe weeks. It's an interesting bit of film, for sure....I feel it shows a growing divide within the band that, of course, soon came to pass.

  6. #31
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    Close viewing of the "Lift Me Up" video shows Mr. Howe did not partake in the staged "miming" sections at all, save the hilarious a cappella singalong at the top. The silhouette of "him" at 2:51 is clearly a stand-in.

    I'm guessing they had to add the live footage to up the Howe presence in the video.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    I think I saw all the Rabin era Yes videos on MTV. I know I saw:

    Owner Of A Lonely Heart
    It Can Happen
    Leave It (there were something like 20 different videos for Leave It)
    Hold On (basically the 9012Live clip, used to promote the 9012Live: The Solos EP)
    Seen All Good People (also from 9012Live)
    Love Will Find A Way (always loved that electric 12 string Rabin plays in this video, also the first place I remember seeing Jon playing his cuatro)
    Rhythm Of Love
    Lift Me Up (which I saw maybe two or three times at the time, then maybe two or three times again during the VH-1 Classic era...had completely forgotten about the acapella intro on the single version)

    Were there any videos for the post-Union albums? I dont' remember seeing any, though I remember seeing them on Letterman when Talk came out, doing Walls, Jon playing cuatro again and Billy Sherwood off to the side strumming away on an acoustic guitar (I remember at first I thought Billy looked a bit like Tommy Shaw).

    Oh and, if we count ABWH, I remember MTV playing the Brother Of Mine video, but I don't think I ever saw the I'm Alive or Order Of The Universe videos anywhere but on the In The Big Dream video release.
    There is a video for Fly from Here.

  8. #33
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    Last show I ever saw at Richfield Coliseum.....and the first show I ever saw at The Nutter Center in Fairborn Ohio....5th row, stage level, In-The-Round....the stage turned and put Steve Howe right in front of me as his guitar spewed forth the classic opening from Yours Is No Disgrace...magical [as for the album, it really sounds dated now, and sits waaaaaaay down my list of favorites from the band]

  9. #34
    Re: Silent Wings Of Freedom promo

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    It's an interesting bit of film, for sure....I feel it shows a growing divide within the band that, of course, soon came to pass.
    Which is why it seems so strange to me, that a promo film like that would be done, basically showing that sort of tension, which you'd typically expect the "PR machine" would want to avoid exhibiting to the public.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by jrw View Post
    There is a video for Fly from Here.
    Is there really?! I wonder if it's ever been shown on TV, or is that just like a Youtube "trailer" or what?

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Is there really?! I wonder if it's ever been shown on TV, or is that just like a Youtube "trailer" or what?
    here you go. i can spot stansted airport and trevor horn but not much else familiar!


  12. #37
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    It was the last time that Yes achieved great commercial success, back in those days of course you couldn't hear an album before you bought it.

  13. #38
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    A couple of months ago I decided to finally take the plunge and get the remaining Yes albums that were missing from my collection (as cheap second hand copies, of course). Those were Union, Talk, and Heaven & Earth. Out of these three I have easily enjoyed Union the most, because at least it has its moments.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    RE; 'Lift Me Up'. The instrumental intro is neat but it's another one from Trevor Rabin which I feel is a good AOR track but doesn't really feel like Yes to me personally...kind of like a harbringer
    Yes, I always thought that song was a hamburger. Lift me up and flip me over, grill me on both sides with onions, lettuce, and pickles, and get a clown to sell me.
    Hurtleturtled Out of Heaven - an electronic music composition, on CD and vinyl
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  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by 2steves View Post
    the Yes west stuff is pretty boring and awful---except for a few moments on The more we live----the ABWH stuff had some really interesting moments--the first two tracks are rocking---Silent Talking is very exciting---Ankor and Take the water are very good---Without hope is good---Dangerous isn't very good---but Holding on has some great moments--sounding like KC--80's version. So-conclusion---ABWH should have stayed together.
    ABWH had already effectively broken up. It's not ABWH on those tracks! It's A, probably B, very little W or H.

    Henry
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  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by jrw View Post
    There is a video for Fly from Here.
    Directed by Trevor Horn's brother, who's a TV director.

    Henry
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  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    And I've forgotten the name of the studio guy who depped for Howe, but at some point, he did an interview online, and I think he said there's a few places where you hear Howe on that record, but most of the stuff that sounds like Howe is apparently really the studio guy
    Jimmy Haun, who was in the initial CIRCA: line-up and has worked with Jonathan Elias on other projects, and is on Steve Porcaro's forthcoming solo album.

    Interview: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/iv/jhinterview.htm

    Henry
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  18. #43
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    I loved this album at the time. Like a lot of people, I was thinking this album must be as good as I hoped it would be. After a while I realised it wasn't!

  19. #44
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    I still don’t love it or hate it. The album is certainly in the bottom 3rd of my Yes collection, but I do enjoy some of it. The tour was amazing though. Saw it twice and they remain two of my all time favorite Yes shows.

  20. #45
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    I still listen to FFH and I still think Benoit voice has more substance and nuance than JD. But live he wasn't very good.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    ABWH had already effectively broken up. It's not ABWH on those tracks! It's A, probably B, very little W or H.

    Henry
    I was just impressed he didn't explain something to the effect of "Steve is doing his best but was letdown by the rest of the band".

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by iguana View Post
    here you go. i can spot stansted airport and trevor horn but not much else familiar!
    I still wonder if it's actually been shown anywhere, or is it just something the band (or record company) did to put up on Youtube or whatever.

    I remember Pat Metheny being asked about the videos he did in the 80's and early 90's, and he said it was the biggest waste of time and money he'd ever been involved in, probably because he wasn't into the whole "music video" thing in the first place, and secondly, there weren't the kind of outlets of jazz music videos (especially after HBO pulled the plug on Video Jukebox and VH-1 stopped showing New Visions) as there were for rock or pop music.

  23. #48
    I get that there was controversy about the album, but for me, it was all about the tour.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    ABWH had already effectively broken up. It's not ABWH on those tracks! It's A, probably B, very little W or H.

    Henry
    in all fairness, the album appeared on ARiSTA records – who signed ABWH in 1989 – and not on ATLANTiC/ATCO, YES’ regular company at the time. in a strict business sense one might view it as ABWH’s second coming. with loads of extra ingredients.

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by iguana View Post
    in all fairness, the album appeared on ARiSTA records – who signed ABWH in 1989 – and not on ATLANTiC/ATCO, YES’ regular company at the time. in a strict business sense one might view it as ABWH’s second coming. with loads of extra ingredients.
    Yes, it is much closer to being the second ABWH album than it is to being the third YesWest album. It's just that ABWH was rapidly becoming a fiction.

    Henry
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