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Thread: Genesis "new stereo mixes"

  1. #151
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    The other thing which would be a neat addition to the core catalogue would be a 2-cd set of the non-album tracks, most of which have not been released on CD outside of boxes. (One oddity here is 'Twilight Alehouse' which I don't think has ever been on CD in its original mix!)
    A complete B-sides collection would be excellent, but every time I've heard that mentioned in interviews, they were always opposed because they feel it tends to be viewed by the public as a 'new album'. Again, completely out of touch. What music fan doesn't know what a B-sides compilation is??
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  2. #152
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    ^If it's good enough for The Beatles- Past Masters, which had A/B sides not on the UK albums- it should be good enough for them!

    Also they should all be included, none left off because some people don't like them, or given early fade-outs or whatever.

  3. #153
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    The band themselves surely would like B-sides collections from their own musical heroes (Beatles, The Who, etc.) so I can't understand their apathy towards these things. If it was clearly titled "B-sides 1971-1997" or something to that effect, there's not a person on earth who would see it and think "Oh, this must be a brand new Genesis album!"

    It would be great to have them all in one place. Well, I DO have them all in one place, because I've ripped and compiled everything properly into a FLAC playlist that I can stream to the stereo whenever I'd like. So it's not the end of the world. Just frustrating that some bands can be so clueless.
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  4. #154
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alucard View Post
    I found half of the Cd/ DVD releases years ago as a bargain. I think they sold individually the box set cds. I regret a bit that I didn't bought them all, nowadays they are harder to find. One of my favourite is the TOTT one with a concert included. Up to Duke I have everything on vinyl and these are my favourite versions. At one point I got most of the old ugly cover first virgin ones from the public library , but I never compared them to the remix versions. Some fans consider them as the best version.
    way back in the late 90's, my buddies from the RTBF and I made a comparison using radio studio equipment, and indeed those first-generation CDs are along the better ones out there... I fortunately kept mine (in those picture discs boxsets) and gradually replaced the cut-up artworks by buying and reselling on the used records market. I then got the Definitive edition with the Mini-Lp imports and then I got the ND boxset CDs only because of the DVDs on them (I never play the CDs from that boxset) I never bothered with the other later boxsets, but I did buy the TotT 5.1 separately (and found place for it in the green box) but again, only for the DVD.
    I still own most of the vinyls (well I had to rebuy a couple some 16 ti 20 years ago)

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    The Who and Frank Zappa are the only others I know of who imposed this sort of revisionism on their own catalogue. In those particular cases, many of the originals are now available. But not Genesis
    .
    Are the original Who CD remasters/remixes back on the market??

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    I know this has been discussed, but the 2007 Nick Davis mixes are abysmal. I got so fed up because I couldn't listen to how shrill they were I sold my entire post Gabriel box set. I spent weeks reading reviews on which version of cd's to replace and wound up getting the original releases, except for a couple of the first remastered definitive versions.
    I absolutely NEVER play the ND reworks CDs, but kept the box for the DVDs

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    If it was down to me I'd get those Davis stereo mixes off the market ASAP and put the originals out again in newly remastered form. The other thing which would be a neat addition to the core catalogue would be a 2-cd set of the non-album tracks, most of which have not been released on CD outside of boxes. (One oddity here is 'Twilight Alehouse' which I don't think has ever been on CD in its original mix!)

    MMMhhh!!!... no need to do the 80's stuff, so a 70(s single disc will more than suffice (I'm not even demanding the Pigeon EP, FTM, but I'd take them as filler)
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Are the original Who CD remasters/remixes back on the market??
    The Who remixes have never been off the market since they came out- these are the 90s CDs. (Some of them I find very good, some of them I find poor.) The 2cd deluxe editions of Sell Out, Tommy and Who's Next have the original mixes, which is welcome. The original mono mix of My Generation is also available. All their compilations reverted to original mixes.

    Some of the original Who CDs are nice, like the Genesis ones. A Quick One will always be a pretty ropey production/mix but the old 80s Polydor CD seems about as good as it will ever sound. The original Live At Leeds also sounds nice to me, quite a different mix to all the extended reissues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    The band themselves surely would like B-sides collections from their own musical heroes (Beatles, The Who, etc.) so I can't understand their apathy towards these things. If it was clearly titled "B-sides 1971-1997" or something to that effect, there's not a person on earth who would see it and think "Oh, this must be a brand new Genesis album!"

    It would be great to have them all in one place.
    I think the Collins era especially had some real gems that were better than what made the albums. With Gabriel, I don't think that much of 'Happy The Man' really but 'Twilight Alehouse' has grown on me over the years.

    Of course one wonders if the shelved Gabriel-era single of 'Wooden Mask'/'Going Out To Get You' exists. If there is a Genesis holy grail, that has to be it.
    Last edited by JJ88; 01-10-2019 at 01:31 PM.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by squonkduke View Post
    Supper's Ready from the TM Productions edition of the full 'Genesis Live' 2LP acetate is not so bad...

    That is a great version of Suppers Ready - I wish that it was included in the Gabriel box. The sound quality sounds good to me. I wonder why it has never been released.

  7. #157
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    I never thought there was anything wrong with that version either. For it to have not come out at the time was understandable (Foxtrot was their first album to make the UK chart so commercially they probably didn't justify a double album at the time) but decades later, no.

    A few other live things which have not seen release- the other tracks from the Shrine show, 'The Musical Box' and 'Watcher...'. I later discovered these (and indeed 'It', which they re-recorded for some reason) were on an ancient bootleg, As Though Emerald City.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    A few other live things which have not seen release- the other tracks from the Shrine show, 'The Musical Box' and 'Watcher...'. I later discovered these (and indeed 'It', which they re-recorded for some reason) were on an ancient bootleg, As Though Emerald City.
    I suppose you're talking about tracks that should have logically come with stuff that was released but somehow didn't, because otherwise there's just so much that could have been released but wasn't.

    Regarding the Shrine show, I believe it is true that the multitrack they had was missing the end of it and the 2 encore tracks. They could have gone with the soundboard to fill the gap since it's far from bad (and they could have added Peter's stories from the latter part of the show which are missing too). It has been rumoured that a second, complete, multitrack of that same show surfaced a few years after the Archive box set was released.
    Not just a Genesis fanboy.

  9. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Ted View Post
    That is a great version of Suppers Ready - I wish that it was included in the Gabriel box. The sound quality sounds good to me. I wonder why it has never been released.
    I'd have to go over it and concentrate on each of their parts, but there must be something there that one of them didn't like. A bum note - probably Tony being overly critical.
    No matter what anyone says, you are the decider of how you will listen to music.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Splicer View Post
    I'd have to go over it and concentrate on each of their parts, but there must be something there that one of them didn't like. A bum note - probably Tony being overly critical.
    I'm not sure there was any notion of this being considered and vetoed. It would have made sense to release it as a bonus on the reissue of the Genesis Live album since it was originally meant to be included. Maybe the band don't own the source tape Or maybe they just forgot about that version altogether.
    Not just a Genesis fanboy.

  11. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Splicer View Post
    I'd have to go over it and concentrate on each of their parts, but there must be something there that one of them didn't like. A bum note - probably Tony being overly critical.
    Or probably Tony's wife burnt the breakfast toast that morning on the day they picked what was going in the box.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    I suppose you're talking about tracks that should have logically come with stuff that was released but somehow didn't, because otherwise there's just so much that could have been released but wasn't.

    Regarding the Shrine show, I believe it is true that the multitrack they had was missing the end of it and the 2 encore tracks. They could have gone with the soundboard to fill the gap since it's far from bad (and they could have added Peter's stories from the latter part of the show which are missing too). It has been rumoured that a second, complete, multitrack of that same show surfaced a few years after the Archive box set was released.
    Yes.

    The thing with 'It' is that there was a different ending when they played it live, with the explosion.

    The 2nd Archive box seemed to try to round up songs not previously on live albums but again left many gaps, particularly from 1976/7- 'Eleventh Earl Of Mar', 'In That Quiet Earth', 'White Mountain' etc. A disc of non-album tracks- the ones they included on the set do fit on one disc- and then a few discs of live material would have been better IMHO. Maybe they could have included a 1980 Lyceum show in full. (Wouldn't have minded losing some of Collins' banter...)
    Last edited by JJ88; 01-11-2019 at 07:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post

    The 2nd Archive box seemed to try to round up songs not previously on live albums but again left many gaps, particularly from 1976/7- 'Eleventh Earl Of Mar', 'In That Quiet Earth', 'White Mountain' etc. A disc of non-album tracks- the ones they included on the set do fit on one disc- and then a few discs of live material would have been better IMHO. Maybe they could have included a 1980 Lyceum show in full. (Wouldn't have minded losing some of Collins' banter...)
    It seems the original plan was more along these lines as they were going to release two 4-disc box sets to cover the Collins-era. That would have allowed for much more material and possibly a full show on each. Apparently that was vetoed by the record company. So the band may not be entirely responsible for the missed opportunity of the second Archive box, which indeed tries to get the best of both worlds by gathering the B-sides and live tracks that were not on live albums, but succeeds at neither.
    Not just a Genesis fanboy.

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    ^Two 4 disc sets does seem like overegging the pudding really. But one would have been good!

    The Gabriel-era set seems to have sold much better, although both are out of print now, and have been for around a decade, I think.

  15. #165
    The Trick of the Tail remix sounds great IMO, and I enjoy it more than the original. W&W sounds good as well. There’s some good in these remixes.

  16. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Score2112 View Post
    The Trick of the Tail remix sounds great IMO, and I enjoy it more than the original.
    So you like "Entangled" being robbed of all its subtle dynamics?

  17. #167
    Member zorknapp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    Mike, I read your comment on Facebook the other day, that TabletopGenesis podcast will be tackling The Lamb Lies Down...this should be a good one!!!!
    Indeed! We're recording next weekend, so I better start boning up on The Lamb... The poll for favorite Lamb track is up on the tabletopgenesis.com website.

    We still have a number of episodes in the bag, it's just that Simon's been busy with music and life stuff, so hasn't been able to get around to finishing off the production on the episodes. Next episode out will be our interview with Richard MacPhail (very fun!), and if I remember correctly, we have episodes for "So" and "Genesis Live" recorded...

    Much happening soon on the TG front!

    Thanks for listening.

    Mike
    Tabletop Genesis - A Genesis and solo career focused podcast, featuring the opinions of Tom Roche, Stacy Godfrey, Simon Godfrey, Eli Noetinger, and Mike Lord - Listen on I-Tunes, or at http://tabletopgenesis.com/ Twitter: @genesistabletop Facebook: www.facebook.com/TabletopGenesis

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    Quote Originally Posted by yesstiles View Post
    So you like "Entangled" being robbed of all its subtle dynamics?
    Trick is the worst of all for me, and 'Entangled' is a total botch job- in the end section one of the guitars is out of synch!

  19. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by yesstiles View Post
    So you like "Entangled" being robbed of all its subtle dynamics?
    The "heavier tunes," such as Dance on the Volcano, as well as Squonk, with increased bass/bass pedal sound good. Same with In that unquiet slumbers/quiet earth on W/W. There's stuff to like there, not all about the subtle dynamics of one tune for me.

  20. #170
    Member yesman1955's Avatar
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    Another interesting side note about mid-career Genesis: they seem to re-release their albums about every 10 to 12 years. For example: Trick was originally released on LP, 8 track & cassette in 1976. In 1986, it was released as a CD. In 1994, it was released again as a remastered CD as the Definitive Edition and finally in 2007 as a remixed CD & 5.1 DVD. Evil plan to drain our pocketbooks? Maybe, but it could also be them just trying to keep up with improvements in sonic technology to present their old music in the best possible way. Or it could be both. 😉

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Yes.

    The thing with 'It' is that there was a different ending when they played it live, with the explosion.

    The 2nd Archive box seemed to try to round up songs not previously on live albums but again left many gaps, particularly from 1976/7- 'Eleventh Earl Of Mar', 'In That Quiet Earth', 'White Mountain' etc. A disc of non-album tracks- the ones they included on the set do fit on one disc- and then a few discs of live material would have been better IMHO. Maybe they could have included a 1980 Lyceum show in full. (Wouldn't have minded losing some of Collins' banter...)
    Archive 1 benefitted from only having a handful of songs that were already released live and having a bunch a material that wasn't already released. Looking back, many aren't happy with PG's reworked vocals and some of the early stuff my have been better left in the can.

    Archive 2 was faithful to not including anything that was already released live but some of the choices seemed questionable. The 12inch mixes, the 10 minute Mama work in progress instead of the long version that was released backed by the long version of Its Gonna Get Better. It seemed a bit disjointed. Maybe the cancelled Archive 3 had something to do with it. I'm not a bootleg fan but I have heard some of the concerts from 76 to 80 really should be cleaned up and released.

  22. #172
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    ^^^ I think the early stuff on Archive 1 is pretty fantastic to have, personally. It may not be to everyone's tastes but I have a fondness for that early period - and for so much of that stuff to have been recorded and never released, gave that box a 'treasure trove' quality to me.

    I also really enjoy the Mama work in progress version. I've got the long version you mention on the Mama 3" CD single, so that's not a loss for me, although obviously most people won't have that. Agreed about the 12" mixes, those are appalling. And as I always mention, leaving out certain b-sides because the band doesn't like them anymore really gives that box an incomplete feel. Again, I've got those two tracks elsewhere (in original and later mixes) but for people who wanted them all in one place, it was a missed opportunity.
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  23. #173
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangram View Post
    Archive 1 benefitted from only having a handful of songs that were already released live and having a bunch a material that wasn't already released. Looking back, many aren't happy with PG's reworked vocals and some of the early stuff my have been better left in the can.
    isn't that the goal of such an archival boxset, though??

    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    ^^^ I think the early stuff on Archive 1 is pretty fantastic to have, personally. It may not be to everyone's tastes but I have a fondness for that early period - and for so much of that stuff to have been recorded and never released, gave that box a 'treasure trove' quality to me.
    absolutely...

    It's quite informative to see how the band evolved between FGTR and Tresspass
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  24. #174
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    ^ I only ever had one 3" CD single (by the band The Alarm)! Does my current OPPO Blu-Ray player even accommodate those? I have no idea.

  25. #175
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    ^I do have the 3" CD of Spot The Pigeon- they go in the middle part of the drawer so should work on anything which has that.. One of the few places you can get 'Match Of The Day' on CD...might be the only one with the original mix, although the song is on a Charisma 3cd set.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangram View Post
    Archive 1 benefitted from only having a handful of songs that were already released live and having a bunch a material that wasn't already released. Looking back, many aren't happy with PG's reworked vocals and some of the early stuff my have been better left in the can.

    Archive 2 was faithful to not including anything that was already released live but some of the choices seemed questionable. The 12inch mixes, the 10 minute Mama work in progress instead of the long version that was released backed by the long version of Its Gonna Get Better. It seemed a bit disjointed. Maybe the cancelled Archive 3 had something to do with it. I'm not a bootleg fan but I have heard some of the concerts from 76 to 80 really should be cleaned up and released.
    I hate Gabriel's overdubs on the first box. People always say 'many live albums were overdubbed in the 70s' but the clue is 'in the 70s'. Not 20 odd years later by a singer who may have improved technically but sounds very different to how he did then. I find it such a shame because on paper that first box would have been one of the best ever released, IMHO.

    As for the second, yes, it's patchy. I'm not a big fan of 80s 12" mixes so those held no appeal for me personally. That's 30-odd minutes I'd much rather have been used on something else.

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