ELP albums after Brain Salad Surgery: How do you rate them?

[StevegSr]

Works. Vol.1, Works Vol.2, Love Beach, Emerson Lake and Powell, Black Moon and In The Hot Seat. I've included Emerson's and Lake's one off album with Cozy Powell in the list if members care to offer an opinion on it.

For the sake of thoroughness, how do you rate these ELP albums released after BBS?

[arabicadabra]

Works Vol I - throw away the Lake and Palmer sides and you've got a good album
Works Vol II - throw away
Emerson Lake & Powell - good enough to keep and revisit
Black Moon - ditto
In The Hot Seat - kept for the opening track. Oh and if you don't own the Return Of The Manticore boxed set, the inclusion of a studio version of Pictures At An Exhibition is also well worth keeping

[chescorph]

I wish Works would be as well produced as earlier ELP. And Greg Lake never discovered that Alembic.

[Man In The Mountain]

1. Keith Emerson Band (The ELP album without L&P)
2. Works
3. Black Moon
4. Works II
5. ELPowell (Sorry, never resonated with me except The Score)
6. Love Beach
7. In The Hot Seat

[Yodelgoat]

I stopped listening to ELP after BSS. Not because the later albums were bad per se. I just lost interest. I dont recall what the whole reason, maybe it was that Love Beach cover. Thats a good enough reason isnt it? I was only so-so into works. Live was not my thing at the time.

[Rarebird]

The last 2 albums I bought were Works volume 1 and Works volume 2. And of those I prefer Works volume 1. And then there is Welcome back my friends... My first ELP album. Those are the only 3 I own on vinyl.

[Trane]

WBTTSTNE: too much BSS stuff to be really interesting
W1: maybe enough good stuff to make one OK single-disc album
W2: avoid
In Concert: OK, but not worth keeping
LB: avoid
ELPowell: OK, surprisingly
BM: no real recollection, which goes to show
ItHS: avoid

[JJ88]

I've said on a few threads that the group material of Works Vol.1/2 should perhaps have been released as a one disc album. All the rest is essentially solo material and may have been better released as such, and most of the 1973 tracks don't fit (I make an exception for 'Tiger In A Spotlight'). 'Fanfare...' and 'Pirates' still strike me as the best things from this period, though...both remain great achievements.

There was a thread on Love Beach...'Canario' and 'Memoirs...' are OK, not much more. The rest does nothing for me.

ELPowell is almost strong all the way through. Of what made the original record (not the CD bonus tracks), the weak link to me is the cover of 'Mars'. I see on Wikipedia that Emerson was initially not keen on doing it at all. But the original material is otherwise strong, and pretty much where you'd expect ELP to be in the 80s...more streamlined, but with the basic aesthetics still intact. 'The Score', 'Touch And Go' and 'The Miracle' all hold up very well indeed, and Lake's vocals were still in good shape.

Black Moon...The trudge through 'Romeo And Juliet' aside, I don't think there's any really bad songs, but only occasionally does the material sparkle. I would say the title track, 'Changing States', 'Burning Bridges' (written by producer Mark Mancina) and 'Close To Home' do the name justice, though.

In The Hot Seat is much the same. 'Hand Of Truth', 'Man In The Long Black Coat' and 'One By One' (the latter two being all that remained of Emerson's original vision of a suite based around the Dylan song) are worthwhile. There are otherwise too many Lake ballads, blandly arranged and produced. I've said this before, but I get a perverse kick out of how many times the word 'compromise' is mentioned on this album- it's on at least three songs, pretty much all duds. I think they were trying to tell us something.

[JJ88]

As for the Keith Emerson Band album, I like the instrumentals more than the vocal numbers. But Emerson was on good form here. Those instrumentals could have fit right on the ELP albums of the early 70s. Objectively it's probably better than the 90s ELP albums, yes.

[zravkapt]

Never cared for any of the studio stuff after BSS. Probably one of the main reasons I ignored Emo's solo career for so long.

[Troopers For Sound]

I've said on a few threads that the group material of Works Vol.1/2 should perhaps have been released as a one disc album.

In the Macan book he suggests the following album could have been made in 1977:

side 1
Tiger in a Spotlight
Apple Blossoms
Brain Salad Surgery
Pirates

side 2
Bo Diddley
So Far to Fall
Fanfare for the Common Man
Show Me the Way to Go Home

I've had that set up as a playlist for a few years now and really enjoy it.

I get something out of all of the post BSS records...with the exception of In The Hot Seat which I personally find to be awful. About the best I can say for it is that the strongest tracks mentioned are just about equal to the weakest tracks on Black Moon IMHO. I like Black Moon quite a bit though, partly nostalgic as it was the tour when I got to see them.

Matt.

[JJ88]

^I suggested a shorter album- Fanfare, So Far To Fall, Tiger, Pirates and Show Me...All bar one song recorded in 1977.

The 1973 tracks other than Tiger just don't fit to me. All of the others had even already seen release on B-sides and a flexidisc ('Brain Salad Surgery', and it also turned up on the B-side of 'Fanfare...'). They just have that 'offcut' feel to me anyway, not really fitting onto an album.

As for Bo Diddley, I've never heard their version of that.

I forgot about In Concert/Works Live...I find it astonishing 'Pirates' was not included on the expanded Works Live version. What on earth was whoever put this together thinking??

[Scrotum Scissor]

I kinda like "Pirates" and some of the brassy jazz-rock/funk things by Palmer on Works, and there are parts of the piano concerto that are at least very listenable. Other than that I find ELP post-Brain to constitute a most horrid listening experience. A couple of the tracks from the ELPowell record would make for fine 80s downhill-skiing-commercial-jingles, but not too much else - for me.

[Sputnik]

I don't thoroughly like any ELP album after BSS. The one I like best is ELPowell. Toss away Love Blind and Lay Down Your Guns and I think that is a solid album with some material that almost touches the greatness of their 70s output. But I really dislike those two tracks and feel they weigh the album down.

As with many, I like parts of Works Volumes I and II. I love Pirates and Fanfare plus a few scattered tracks on the Lake/Palmer sides, and I like a lot of the material on Works II, so I have a CDR that compiles all that. It's a decent listen, but as individual albums I don't rate these as highly. They are very uneven.

I no longer own Black Moon, Love Beach or In The Hot Seat. I'd rate them in that order, but I don't think any of these are very good albums. I have the ELP live from the Albert Hall, and that has anything from Black Moon I might have wanted. I put Love Beach and Hot Seat together at the way way bottom, really among the worst rock albums I've ever heard. Almost unthinkable one of my favorite bands could have produced them, but the same goes for Yes (Open Your Eyes) and some of those later Genesis albums, so it's not ELP are alone.

I'd personally add the KEB album, probably up there under ELPowell, alongside my Works compilation. It's a solid listen, but I don't find the suite particularly coherent or particularly spectacular (save the section that incorporates Holst). I also think the rhythm section on the album is dull as dishwater, giving the music a somewhat generic quality. But there's nothing on this album that sends me screaming from the room, and I actually quite like the writing on the separate tracks And the updated version of Barbarian.

Bill

[JJ88]

Lake essentially gave us 'Lay Down Your Guns' Part 2 with 'A Farewell To Arms'. Neither is that great, no. 'Love Blind' is certainly quite AOR for them, and I'm not over-keen on some of the keyboard sounds chosen (well, it was the 80s!), but Lake's voice still had gravitas at the time, so it sounds better than it is.

I forgot 'Step Aside', I really like that one- a very quirky, jazz-tinged number.

The only other problem with the ELPowell album for me is that cavernous 80s reverb. It has not aged well. You hear the same sound on Asia and GTR albums.

I'd personally add the KEB album, probably up there under ELPowell, alongside my Works compilation. It's a solid listen, but I don't find the suite particularly coherent or particularly spectacular (save the section that incorporates Holst). I also think the rhythm section on the album is dull as dishwater, giving the music a somewhat generic quality. But there's nothing on this album that sends me screaming from the room, and I actually quite like the writing on the separate tracks And the updated version of Barbarian.

Bill

The suite itself is very fragmented, which I find a drawback. When you look at an epic like Tarkus, there's an ebb-and-flow to it, with themes appearing throughout the song. This is just a bunch of songs, by contrast.

Marc Bonilla's guitar tones and his occasional vocal 'growl' are very 'rawk n roll', as well, so that element is very different from ELP. But I guess that's what was wanted.

[Werbinox]

ELP has albums after Brain Salad Surgery?

[Werbinox]

ELP has albums after Brain Salad Surgery?

Obviously sarcastic. Truth is I dont like any of them except for Works Vol. 1. That one is actually a treasure trove of interesting music,

[mx20]

I kinda like "Pirates" and some of the brassy jazz-rock/funk things by Palmer on Works, and there are parts of the piano concerto that are at least very listenable. Other than that I find ELP post-Brain to constitute a most horrid listening experience. A couple of the tracks from the ELPowell record would make for fine 80s downhill-skiing-commercial-jingles, but not too much else - for me.

This sums up my position nicely, though I always *wanted* to like their post-BSS material better. I adore parts of WV2, but one thing always annoyed me about those two Works albums is the inclusion of so many outside players. I haven't looked at these LP sleeves in ages, so remind me: aren't many of the musicians uncredited? On Emerson's material, for example? Maybe I'm misremembering.... Anyway, a song on an ELP album with a random studio drummer or a different bass player is just an attempt at cashing in.

I really like the BSS outtakes on WV2, but those should probably just get shuffled into my BSS playlist.

[Sputnik]

I forgot 'Step Aside', I really like that one- a very quirky, jazz-tinged number.

One of my favorite songs on the album and a unique one in their catalog. They could have done a bit more with it, imo. but it works in this arrangement.

The only other problem with the ELPowell album for me is that cavernous 80s reverb. It has not aged well. You hear the same sound on Asia and GTR albums.

Yeah, that's the 80s. Generally I agree with you, but I'd actually say for this music (and even some on the first Asia album) this production works OK. It gives is a "big" sound. I wonder, though, if that is part of what makes Step Aside work so well. They turn that cavernous production down a notch, and it really stands out sandwiched between those two reverb-drenched ballads.

The suite itself is very fragmented, which I find a drawback. When you look at Tarkus, there's an ebb-and-flow to it, with themes appearing throughout the song. This is just a bunch of songs, by contrast.

Yep, my impression as well, and in many cases not really the best "songs" either, imo.

Bill

[Werbinox]

Wait, made a huge oversight - the Emerson, Lake, and Powell album kicked my ass when it came out. Listened to it a few months ago and still enjoyed it. Not one to play a whole lot, but it was important to me during that period of my life, so I gotta give it props.

[noisynoise]

One of my favorite songs on the album and a unique one in their catalog. They could have done a bit more with it, imo. but it works in this arrangement.

Yeah, that's the 80s. Generally I agree with you, but I'd actually say for this music (and even some on the first Asia album) this production works OK. It gives is a "big" sound. I wonder, though, if that is part of what makes Step Aside work so well. They turn that cavernous production down a notch, and it really stands out sandwiched between those two reverb-drenched ballads.

Yep, my impression as well, and in many cases not really the best "songs" either, imo.

Bill

Somehow, to my ears, the "80's Production" on ELPowell is more tasteful than that on Asia or GTR, and has aged better. That album was my entrypoint, and as such holds a special place in my heart, but I think it still holds up. The Score/Learning to Fly/The Miracle is programmed perfectly, essentially making an ad hoc epic (the opening beat to LTF hits in time from where TS ends, and LTF flows into TM).

I was excited about Black Moon when it came out, but I never come back to it. In the Hot Seat is beyond bland, it wouldn't even make a good Lake solo album.

[Mister Triscuits]

There's a lot of good material scattered throughout the Works albums, but I wish more of it had been properly arranged and developed into actual ELP recordings. The Concerto has lots of great ideas, but I just don't find it convincing as a serious classical composition. I also feel there's also a mushy sound to the orchestra parts--I'm not sure if it's down to the orchestration, the performance, the production, or a combination of the three--that undermines the impact of the piece. I really wish Emerson had used these ideas for one or more band epics. A couple of the Lake solo songs--the ones where he wasn't too busy channelling Neil Diamond--would also have made for decent band tracks. I can imagine "C'est la Vie" given a more elaborate arrangement, a la "Still...You Turn Me On." (Even as it stands, I know Emerson actually wanted to play the accordion part, but Lake snubbed him by using an anonymous session man. Lake also mixed out Emerson's piano part from one of the tracks he did play on. Can't you boys play nice?) "Fanfare" has never worked for me. I find the arrangement dull and monotonous compared to ELP's other classical reworkings. For god's sake, bring back the Hammond and the Moog!!! "Pirates" is one of only two tracks on either of the Works volumes that I find really, unreservedly great and worthy of the ELP legacy. And that despite the fact that it's a touch slick for ELP; no room there for any real keyboard freak-outs.

I'm surprised at how favorably "Tiger in a Spotlight" seems to be viewed. I always thought it was no more than one of those goofy throwaway tracks along the lines of "Are You Ready Eddie" or "Benny the Bouncer" which most of the folks around here despise. The fact that it serves as an album opener on WV2, and is in fact one of the better tracks on the album, just shows how low the bar had suddenly gotten. I adore the "missing" title track from Brain Salad Surgery, but of course I'd heard it before. The rest is a ragbag and sounds like it. And I really wish they had been more forthcoming about who actually plays on what on both of the Works albums.

I've always defended Love Beach for being more than half good. The first five tracks are useless dreck, but "Canario" and "Memoirs" are fine.

The original side one of ELPowell is terrific. I remember the thrill of first the opening of "The Score" and knowing that ELP were back, and then laughing out loud at the "show that never ends" reference. The second half isn't up to the same standards. "Touch & Go" is pretty good; I liked it better after seeing it performed live. But then side two sags badly with forays into AOR, goofy faux-jazz, and a mawkish ballad before turning the voltage back up with a good but not great classical adaptation.

Black Moon was a big disappointment to me. Not horrible--that would be next--but not much good, either. By far my favorite track on the album is the jackbooted stomp through "Romeo & Juliet," which I find hilarious. I'd like to think that the hilarity was intentional.

In the Hot Seat: garbage. Completely dispensable. A terribly sad send-off for one of the greatest bands in prog.

[JJ88]

(Even as it stands, I know Emerson actually wanted to play the accordion part, but Lake snubbed him by using an anonymous session man. Lake also mixed out Emerson's piano part from one of the tracks he did play on. Can't you boys play nice?)

The daft thing is, Emerson played the accordion part live anyway.

Sadly they were a fractured band by this point. Perhaps that's ultimately why so much solo material was put out on a group project and why there's mystery over who played what, to paper over the cracks.

'Tiger In A Spotlight' is OK, but not a substantial song by any means. They'd been riffing on the exact same chord changes since 1970- watch that film from that period, released under various titles like Masters From The Vaults etc.- so it had been around for a while as well. But it did endure in their set-list, so does have an importance in that respect.

[StevegSr]

1. Keith Emerson Band (The ELP album without L&P)

TKEB may be a fine solo album but I don't know how you consider it to be ELP with L and P.

[StevegSr]

A couple of the tracks from the ELPowell record would make for fine 80s downhill-skiing-commercial-jingles, but not too much else - for me.