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Thread: As a Musician, Is It Better To Think More Like You Were Younger?

  1. #26
    Member Mikhael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevegSr View Post
    This is a simple statement which most will not grasp: As a musician, it's better to think that you are still hungry.
    Seconded.
    Gnish-gnosh borble wiff, shlauuffin oople tirk.

  2. #27
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    But hungry for what? Commercial success? or are we talking about being passionate for creating your music in a way that it represents what is in your head? Thats where my passion lies, and only I can prevent my own success in that sense.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    But hungry for what? Commercial success? or are we talking about being passionate for creating your music in a way that it represents what is in your head? Thats where my passion lies, and only I can prevent my own success in that sense.
    Both, for me.

  4. #29
    Member StevegSr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    But hungry for what? Commercial success? or are we talking about being passionate for creating your music in a way that it represents what is in your head? Thats where my passion lies, and only I can prevent my own success in that sense.
    Whew! Hungry to experiment! Hungry to keep learning! Hungry to improve your playing! Your songwriting! Your vocal range!

    Hungry to be better then you were yesterday!

    Kind of like that.
    To be or not to be? That is the point. - Harry Nilsson.

  5. #30
    Member Mikhael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevegSr View Post
    Whew! Hungry to experiment! Hungry to keep learning! Hungry to improve your playing! Your songwriting! Your vocal range!

    Hungry to be better then you were yesterday!

    Kind of like that.
    What he said. Hungry like a wolf. Grr.
    Gnish-gnosh borble wiff, shlauuffin oople tirk.

  6. #31
    Hungry to write new music? You bet I am. I still have a head full of ideas.
    Hungry to get better? Always.
    Hungry for succes? Sure. I hate it to be dependant of social security.

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  8. #33
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if I am still hungry. I just do what I feel like doing, its all about enjoying the process. Success is having spent a few hours in my studio working on songs I've been working on for years. Getting them better. I don't really push myself at all. So any hunger in that sense, doesnt exist. If I listen to a part and decide I can make it better, thats what I do. I'm like putting together the most complex jigsaw puzzle ever. And it doesnt have to be done anytime soon. No pressure to finish. In some sense, I may never finish. As long as I get to create, listen, improve and struggle through parts that are challenging, and eventually triumph. Thats what I love - Its actually the process of creation, not the satisfaction of someone else hearing and being impressed.

    By the way, this happened to me on Wed night... I met up with an old friend who used to play with the Steve Miller band (a long while back), and I just let him hear about 10 minutes of what I was working on. I could see he was really impressed (it could have been my imagination), and he took the earbuds out and said "You really need to do something with this!" I've had conversations with him before about how I dont plan on releasing anything again, and he started up again about how thats just not right. But I told him I get much more out of playing this for people like him and impressing them than I do releasing music. It was very rewarding for me to hear him be so certain that This would go someplace with the right people behind it. I dont know how up to date he is on the state of the music world, but he was impressed and that was very enjoyable, because it was sincere. I dont believe that any music can go anywhere in todays environment. I'm still on a bit of a high, and obviously what I am doing is not self-delusional. - I am always worried that I have a better opinion of my stuff than anyone else. And I kind of assume its nothing special to anyone but me. Glad to know it can still surprise someone who's opinion I respect.

    Anyway, I told him that when its done I'll let him spin it for some "people he knows" - whatever that means.

  9. #34
    Member StevegSr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    I'm not sure if I am still hungry. I just do what I feel like doing, its all about enjoying the process. Success is having spent a few hours in my studio working on songs I've been working on for years. Getting them better. I don't really push myself at all. So any hunger in that sense, doesnt exist. If I listen to a part and decide I can make it better, thats what I do. I'm like putting together the most complex jigsaw puzzle ever. And it doesnt have to be done anytime soon. No pressure to finish. In some sense, I may never finish. As long as I get to create, listen, improve and struggle through parts that are challenging, and eventually triumph. Thats what I love - Its actually the process of creation, not the satisfaction of someone else hearing and being impressed.

    By the way, this happened to me on Wed night... I met up with an old friend who used to play with the Steve Miller band (a long while back), and I just let him hear about 10 minutes of what I was working on. I could see he was really impressed (it could have been my imagination), and he took the earbuds out and said "You really need to do something with this!" I've had conversations with him before about how I dont plan on releasing anything again, and he started up again about how thats just not right. But I told him I get much more out of playing this for people like him and impressing them than I do releasing music. It was very rewarding for me to hear him be so certain that This would go someplace with the right people behind it. I dont know how up to date he is on the state of the music world, but he was impressed and that was very enjoyable, because it was sincere. I dont believe that any music can go anywhere in todays environment. I'm still on a bit of a high, and obviously what I am doing is not self-delusional. - I am always worried that I have a better opinion of my stuff than anyone else. And I kind of assume its nothing special to anyone but me. Glad to know it can still surprise someone who's opinion I respect.

    Anyway, I told him that when its done I'll let him spin it for some "people he knows" - whatever that means.
    Well, the desire to improve your music is a sign of hunger to me. As I said, if you make some part of your personal music world better then it was just a second ago, you have hunger. You have a pulse and you're moving.

    As far as making it in the commercial world, that is difficult, more now then ever, for a prog muso. Sometimes we doubt our commercial drive because it is a difficult road to travel and the disappointments both financially and emotionally are very great. I was lucky enough to make a living in rock when record companies were as big as movie studios and their directors had vision. Sometimes, misguided, but they had it. I was around to see many prog musicians, that I considered to be friends, call it quits in the early eighties, when it seemed that no one wanted to hear about them. I wish some could have stayed active, but they had families to look after and persued different options. But a couple persevered and actually make a modest living form their music now.

    You just never know how things will turn out, but I always felt they had a bit more hunger then the ones who gave it up. JMO, on that one.
    To be or not to be? That is the point. - Harry Nilsson.

  10. #35
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    ^^^^ I agree that you never know how things will turn out, but I would miss working in the studio if I didnt do it (Almost every day). The people who have quit music all together are missing something in their lives. I dont know if they actually miss it, but I certainly would. I dont miss playing bad covers in bars at all, but composing never gets old. There are all kinds of surprises, like when you finish a particularly challenging drum part and it is spot on. Or suddenly the vocals sound like they do in your head.

    I often wonder if musicians who feel like they have to produce new music - Say Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson who feel they owe their fans a new album every couple of years get the same level of enjoyment producing the music that I have - They always work under a deadline, but letting stuff go before its actually done must be hard. Perhaps they are so used to it that they understand that is the way it has to be for them. I cant imagine them recording an album without supporting it with a tour. I dont think they'll make money off of just album sales.

  11. #36
    A deadline can be stimulating as well. A bit of pressure I like. And perhaps letting it go at some point, without being able to perfect it, till all the live is sucked out might be not unwelcome as well.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    A deadline can be stimulating as well. A bit of pressure I like. And perhaps letting it go at some point, without being able to perfect it, till all the live is sucked out might be not unwelcome as well.
    Deadlines in a recording studio can be a blessing or a curse. Some musicians dig deep when under pressure and come up with something amazing and some just choke. And the wild thing is that it can be the same musician on two different deadlines!
    To be or not to be? That is the point. - Harry Nilsson.

  13. #38
    Be yourself. If I consider how many times I've should have died doing whatever the hell it was I doing 30 or 40 years ago, I certainly couldn't put myself in that frame of mind now.
    "And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision."

    Occasional musical musings on https://darkelffile.blogspot.com/

  14. #39
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    ^^^Yeah, that frame of mind when put in perspective, was really dopey (pun intended) As I look at what I would accept then as excellent musicianship is nowhere near what I expect now. I actually think things have worked out better for me by only being partially successful in music in my younger years. Nowadays, its all about the process of creation. In my earlier days, we couldnt wait to get the songs out of the studio and on to the vinyl. Now I feel no pressure to do anything but get it right. There are always new ideas coming along, and I'm kind of slipping behind on those, but they can stew for a while before I actually start to work on them. Not to mention, all my material seems to fit together nicely, so the new tends to sync up with the old. Perhaps when I'm done I'll have four or five hours of related material. That may be a reason that I will never let it go - because it just might be - a little boring to others. But if it makes me happy, why does that matter? I hear melody where someone listening for the first time may miss it and think " man, this is boring" But after a listen or two it becomes a little more familiar and thats when you can start to appreciate the effort that has been put in. Who actually enjoyed Tales from topographic Oceans the first time they heard it? I dont pretend to be anywhere near the talent Yes was, but I get the idea that music should become more interesting with repeated listens.

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    Wow, thats quite a unique situation you find yourself in Enid. I started my live music career in a similar situation, though not to the extent you have experienced. I joined a well known band from a little town, Olympia, Wa. And so I moved there with my wife and kid. The band was the biggest thing going in town, and for some reason, everyone knew about the change that had taken place. The band had fired the lead vocalist/Bass player, and I was his replacement. They had just released their first album, and so I was called upon to suddenly be a singer, who was replacing a popular singer. It was exciting to be out in public and have people treat you like you were someone who was special. Anywhere that people under 30 hung out, I was suddenly a center of attention. In malls, I would get stopped talked to and waved to. Like I say, Olympia was an small town, and the band was kind of considered The big thing. I recall my first local gig with the band - we had played several gigs in the surrounding area, Seattle, and the surrounding areas, where the band was just considered a good, semi popular local band. There was no drama. Then we came to play in Olympia, and the atmosphere became completely different. Fans of the old bass player were upset and were telling people I sucked, and the band was ruined. Others were just curious to see if the band had changed at all. The place reached capacity and then some and they turned people away, and they still hung out outside in the parking lot. Anyway, it was quite the drama. I did my best and people seemed to really like the change. It was strange to be playing original songs and seeing the people in the audience singing along. Where I really seemed to make the grade was in my ability to totally nail Tom Sawyer and Limelight - I have Geddy like qualities in my voice. And apparently - we totally rocked the place. I was not used to such adulation. Apparently the guy I replaced had issues with his voice cracking at the wrong time, and he could not consistently sing his own parts from the record. Thats why they decided to replace him. Incidentally, I did get to know him and we got along very well, although he was obviously a little hurt that he was let go. He didn't blame me for it.

    Anyway, with all that said the band became much more popular, and I enjoyed about 3 years of living the rock star life - Without being rich. We were a very much in demand bar band, and in a small town, we were local stars. People thought we were much more famous than we were. Anyway, I would have people follow me home from gigs, occasionally we were pestered in public, but it was just an amazing feeling. I experienced it on a very small scale, but I was fortunate enough to be with a band in its climb. We actually became quite well known in the Seattle area. I did radio spots, played some really big local gigs - like Bumpershoot where there were 100K people there. Seattle international Raceway...

    We never got signed - we were always just on the edge of it. The main reason why was because we werent willing to give everything away for nothing. Labels wanted bands that they could really manipulate, that asked for nothing in return. We made our living playing cover music and we would intermingle our own originals, and we got away with that alot. The bands that put out albums and only played thier own songs basically starved. We got away with doing a blend of covers and originals. People would tell me that they had no idea the song they heard us play had been an original.

    Anyway, those days are long behind me now, and I look back with a fondness for that era of my life, but I enjoy having holidays, steady paychecks, health insurance etc...

    But in deference to you Enid, I NEVER had anyone throw money at me to buy one of my songs. that would have been a problem I would have loved to have. Unfortunately for almost all of us, those days are forever gone. You may be able to sell your music if you are really exceptional, but I'm sure we all miss, to some extent the "fame" that has died from the music scene. With just a few exceptions. and they are getting old, and will probably pass away far sooner than we are ready to let them go. I was watching an interview with Geddy and Alex today, and thought "here's two guys who are still able to live the dream" I will miss it when we no longer have them with us. Out of the thousands to tens of thousands of famous Rock musicians, we only have a handful who can still demand attention. That makes me sad.
    I really enjoyed your post! Thanks for sharing your experiences.

  16. #41
    I was in a composer's collective for about four years. It was an excellent group of people that really enjoyed each other's company for that time being. The group was mainly for "experimental" composers. There were some field recording, homemade instruments, mild industrial like people, oddball electronic pop, and so on (www.sonicabal.com is the site, kind of cool it's still up since we stopped meeting around 2004). I would join another one in a heartbeat. There is something about group energy where the sum makes the individuals shine and do things they might not have ordinarily done. There were a lot of really high caliber people in it that were music grads, label owners who also wrote/performed, and so on.

  17. #42
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevegSr View Post
    This is a simple statement which most will not grasp: As a musician, it's better to think that you are still hungry.
    thats a motivator, for sure......but I think that more applies to guys like me that play covers for a living over finding the creative inspiration for originals

  18. #43
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    I was in a songwriters group when I lived in Seattle. I quit after a few months because the most successful musician in the group was the guy who wrote (this is not a joke) The shutdown jingle for Microsoft Windows. Yes, I kid you not. Now thats a prog song if there ever was one. The guy who ran it was once married to Bonnie Raiett (however you spell it) So it was a pretty good group of people, to be honest, but the idea that a guy who wrote a 3 second jingle was the guy getting all the attention, and the concentration was on making a living by writing something like that, was, well, a bit depressing. Plus the keyboardist from the Motels was always there trying to get me to buy his services in the studio... LIke I need an average at best keyboardist to lay down parts I can do with one hand by myself....

    He kept assuring me that having his name on the demos would definitely get me noticed... The Motels? Really? Only the lonely was OK, but c'mon... he wanted thousands too... "Yeah, um... well I'll get back to you..."

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