RIP Keith Emerson

[boilk]

Here's another example of all the various musicians, whose lives Keith touched. From the Tool web site, a tribute by drummer Danny Carey:

"Keith Emerson was a huge influence on me. Listening to ELP's first five albums literally changed my life and brought me to a new level of musical awareness, so much so that I pursued a career in music. His pioneering work in synthesizers with Bob Moog impacted the face of music and changed it forever. We have lost one of the greatest keyboardist ever to exist on our planet." - DANNY CAREY

neil

[JJ88]

"Okay, here's a question: Do you think there'll be a reassessment of their music, in the wake of Emerson's tragic end? "



errmm.. just talking about the Rock world.

I was only talking about rock critics in that post...most of them have long since made their minds up.

The tributes from across the spectrum among musicians make clear how important he was, however. Same with Chris Squire.

Really both ELP and Yes should have been in any self-respecting 'Hall Of Fame' a long time ago. Personal tastes should not come into it, but they seem to.

[A. Scherze]

It would be so great if the Piano Concerto and The Three Fates became part of the classical repertoire, and perhaps due to the noble efforts of people like Jeffrey Biegel this might just happen. It would be a wonderful and deserved vindication of Keith's music, much more than getting in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, stuff them!

[A. Scherze]

[Sputnik]

Regarding the legacy question, I'd have to say ELP were pivotal in introducing classical music to the rock/pop audience. When I was a young teen, the chances of me hearing Mussorgsky or Copeland without the benefit of ELP were not much better than 0!

It is an interesting question whether ELP's or Emerson's legacy will be reevaluated in the wake of his death. I think it will ultimately come down to a million individual reactions, like this or some others posted here. It's certainly a moment to pause and consider, and if you read a lot of the comments, you get a sense of the magnitude of ELP's impact. Whether that will make a difference in the long-term to the larger story of ELP is hard to say. Time will tell.

But I think we have another glimpse into ELP's legacy as well, in the influence their music continues to have on younger musicians. I can't help thinking that people like Rachel Flowers or the pianist in that video of Stones of Years being attracted to ELP shows that there is some substance and something exciting that continues to catch the ear of talented players within and outside of the rock world. I think that gets beyond the spinning pianos and Persian rugs to what is really great about the music, and hopefully that will be what emerges as their true legacy.

I always thought that Emerson wanted wider acceptance as a classical composer and was crushed when Leonard Bernstein dismissed his Piano Concerto.

That's a bummer, but I'd prefer honesty to being dishonestly coddled. You want to swim in that pool, you'll have to expect extreme scrutiny and a level of criticism the rock critics and audiences are hardly capable of. I'm sure Bernstein was equally critical of composers who came up in the classical tradition. You can take that criticism and let it sting you and give up, or you can use it as fuel for the fire to try harder. That's true for any musician in any style. If you want to be considered the best, you have to earn it.

Within his sphere, I think Emerson earned it. Outside of that is harder to say. Ironically, I think some of his rock stuff, when adapted differently, may be held in greater esteem by the classical world than the Piano Concerto. But if the Piano Concerto gets re-assessed and looked on more favorably, then that is great. It's too bad if it took his death to prompt that kind of re-evaluation, though it appears that's not exclusively the case as some have obviously held different opinions for some time.

Bill

[grego]

I understand how rock and roll was seen as a reaction against an elite bourgeois music establishment perceived as oppressive. The critics' conclusion was that influences from classical, big band, harmonically lush standards and anything academically structured were bad. Blues, country, folk, blues based jazz, and gospel influences were to be praised. This seems to have been the issue with somebody like Peel, whose early musical obsession was with "race music" and blues. The Nice had enough of the folk & blues to keep it palatable to that worldview. ELP dispensed almost entirely with musical colloquialism in favor of something more grandiose and "accomplished."

I gather that third stream jazz had similar critical challenges, but it never attained the cultural currency that ELP & Yes had in their stadium rock concert phase, so the invective wasn't as nasty or monolithic.

But ELP were far from being prog shobs. Emerson could play honky tonk, cool jazz, hard rock, foxtrot, blues, ballads, French cabaret, concertos, sonatas( Three Fates), ragtime boogie...I simply don't know a pianist of such wide range of styles, as he was.

[regenerativemusic]

It is an interesting question whether ELP's or Emerson's legacy will be reevaluated in the wake of his death. I think it will ultimately come down to a million individual reactions, like this or some others posted here. It's certainly a moment to pause and consider, and if you read a lot of the comments, you get a sense of the magnitude of ELP's impact. Whether that will make a difference in the long-term to the larger story of ELP is hard to say. Time will tell.

But I think we have another glimpse into ELP's legacy as well, in the influence their music continues to have on younger musicians. I can't help thinking that people like Rachel Flowers or the pianist in that video of Stones of Years being attracted to ELP shows that there is some substance and something exciting that continues to catch the ear of talented players within and outside of the rock world. I think that gets beyond the spinning pianos and Persian rugs to what is really great about the music, and hopefully that will be what emerges as their true legacy.

That's a bummer, but I'd prefer honesty to being dishonestly coddled. You want to swim in that pool, you'll have to expect extreme scrutiny and a level of criticism the rock critics and audiences are hardly capable of. I'm sure Bernstein was equally critical of composers who came up in the classical tradition. You can take that criticism and let it sting you and give up, or you can use it as fuel for the fire to try harder. That's true for any musician in any style. If you want to be considered the best, you have to earn it.

Within his sphere, I think Emerson earned it. Outside of that is harder to say. Ironically, I think some of his rock stuff, when adapted differently, may be held in greater esteem by the classical world than the Piano Concerto. But if the Piano Concerto gets re-assessed and looked on more favorably, then that is great. It's too bad if it took his death to prompt that kind of re-evaluation, though it appears that's not exclusively the case as some have obviously held different opinions for some time.

Bill

If you look at the modern classical world, you have about 250 more or less recent composers who are played by various sized orchestras which go all over the spectrum. The classical audience, as can be seen on a site like talkclassical, are all over the map as to who is good. You have some that love atonal meandering and consider that the best music. This is music that tries at all costs to avoid being musical as most enjoy music. You have a lot of people in the classical world who do not consider the atonal composers as really valid, and are early music enthusiasts, or at least like moderns such as Arvo Part who do sound musical.

[undergroundrailroad]

That's a bummer, but I'd prefer honesty to being dishonestly coddled. You want to swim in that pool, you'll have to expect extreme scrutiny and a level of criticism the rock critics and audiences are hardly capable of. I'm sure Bernstein was equally critical of composers who came up in the classical tradition. You can take that criticism and let it sting you and give up, or you can use it as fuel for the fire to try harder. That's true for any musician in any style. If you want to be considered the best, you have to earn it.

Within his sphere, I think Emerson earned it. Outside of that is harder to say.

As someone whose college education and later career have been immersed in the classical music establishment, I can say a couple things.

First, you're right. The level of scrutiny, analysis and critical comparison that happens in the classical music field is ruthless.

Second, there's not really much benefit to being recognized as a significant classical musician unless you're alive and enjoying life in the top tier of the field. Emerson's output is neither prolific enough nor refined enough to get him into the mainstream of classical music. Unless the rock ensemble is accepted as part of that field sometime in the distant, distant future. Meanwhile, there are thousands of accomplished composers of all eras that never reach the attention of even the most obsessive classical connoisseurs.

Emerson is best appreciated with all the dichotomies, idiosyncracies and contradictions that he raised during the height of his career. His gorgeous and sensitive piano music is so effective because it happens 10 minutes after he was stroking his ribbon controller in an unseemly fashion. His contrapuntal flights of fancy are so intellectually stimulating because they happen 10 minutes before he's jabbing knives into his organ. Athleticism + searching intellect + musical sensitivity + iconoclastic showmanship. That combination will never be emulated on a classical concert stage if the classical music field doesn't change drastically from what it is.

[Paulrus]

Ironically, I think some of his rock stuff, when adapted differently, may be held in greater esteem by the classical world than the Piano Concerto.

Completely agree.

[JJ88]

^Macan argued similarly in his Endless Enigma book. One underrated composition for me is the bit before the drum solo in 'Tank', that's very complex and Zappa-esque IMHO.

I think the Piano Concerto worked better for me when he translated the last part of it into a rock arrangement.

[-=RTFR666=-]

I always thought that Emerson wanted wider acceptance as a classical composer and was crushed when Leonard Bernstein dismissed his Piano Concerto.

Where was it documented that Bernstein dismissed the concerto?

KE in his memoir (relying on memory here) tells about Bernstein slagging the Nice's "America" when all the hullaballo about that number was in the press; then, when they finally meet later, he writes that where Bernstein was condescending in that first conversation, Bernstein wound up visiting the studio (with Greg present and smoking a joint) to go over what was in progress and offer Keith pointers (when Leonard wasn't wanting to bend Keith over the piano, as Keith insinuates).

[oilersfan]

Where was it documented that Bernstein dismissed the concerto?
.

Partially in a Greg Lake interview featured in the 'Beyond the Beginning' documentary.

[-=RTFR666=-]

Partially in a Greg Lake interview featured in the 'Beyond the Beginning' documentary.

Thanks, I'll have to check that out...

[infandous]

Partially in a Greg Lake interview featured in the 'Beyond the Beginning' documentary.

Yeah, but even that is not very clear. Lake says Bernstein said: "It reminds me of Grandma Moses" (which might imply he though it was somewhat amateurish I suppose). Then he shrugs and has a bewildered look before laughing. So I get the impression Greg found the comment baffling and that Keith was maybe disappointed that he didn't give it unqualified praise (did Keith even understand the reference?). Just my impression (I just watched the documentary a couple weeks ago). I do think I read elsewhere though were Greg says that Keith was devastated that Bernstein didn't like the piece, but does Keith say that anywhere? If so, I haven't seen it.

[regenerativemusic]

It's sad that Keith didn't see this as a sign, like Wakeman probably did, that the worldly "entertainment" system wasn't something to take at face value. Wakeman was also an alcoholic but eventually got victory over it.

[Mr.Krautman]

We all know (and appreciate) Emerson's renditions of classical themes but the other way is no less interesting and prove how great a composer he was. Personally, I don't find this inferior in any way to Bernstein's (best) work.

[Baribrotzer]

Yeah, but even that is not very clear. Lake says Bernstein said: "It reminds me of Grandma Moses" (which might imply he though it was somewhat amateurish I suppose). Then he shrugs and has a bewildered look before laughing. So I get the impression Greg found the comment baffling and that Keith was maybe disappointed that he didn't give it unqualified praise (did Keith even understand the reference?). Just my impression (I just watched the documentary a couple weeks ago). I do think I read elsewhere though were Greg says that Keith was devastated that Bernstein didn't like the piece, but does Keith say that anywhere? If so, I haven't seen it.

I know what Bernstein was talking about. There's a difference between music written by someone with no training, even someone quite talented, and someone who has had formal training in composition. I can't really quantify it - although I've tried - but I can hear it. And in prog, I've heard more than a few "primitive" (in the sense of "primitive" painters like Grandma Moses) attempts at classical music, where a composer knows what classical music sounds like and tries to make music that sounds like that, but doesn't really understand the structural nuts and bolts behind it at a very deep level. As opposed to a trained classical composer, who has studied form and harmony and analysed pieces in class, learned how and why they work, and understands the full harmonic and structural vocabulary of the medium he's working in.

EDIT: I should add that Bernstein had a related opinion of George Gershwin, as may be found in The Joy of Music: That Gershwin had formed and developed his style without formal training and it showed, but his ear for a melody was so superb that his weak and impressionistic sense of structure and development didn't matter.

[MusicWarrior]

Yeah, but even that is not very clear. Lake says Bernstein said: "It reminds me of Grandma Moses" ... So I get the impression Greg found the comment baffling and that Keith was maybe disappointed that he didn't give it unqualified praise (did Keith even understand the reference?). Just my impression ... .

That's quite unlikely Keith's impression, he knew quite well with whom he was talking (BTW a very close friend of Aaron Copland.) Bernstein never was an easy character in the classical milieu, but even so one can never take as granted it was criticism over Emo's work.

That episode reminds me of another one I happened to aknowledge not long ago, which can illustrate better Leonard Bernstein's character:
In April 1962, Bernstein appeared on stage before a performance of the Brahms Piano Concerto No. 1 in D minor with the pianist Glenn Gould. During rehearsals, Gould had argued for tempi much broader than normal, which did not reflect Bernstein's concept of the music. Bernstein gave a brief address to the audience starting with "Don't be frightened; Mr Gould is here..." and going on to "In a concerto, who is the boss (audience laughter)—the soloist or the conductor?" (Audience laughter grows louder). The answer is, of course, sometimes the one and sometimes the other, depending on the people involved."[28] This speech was subsequently interpreted by Harold C. Schonberg, music critic (uhh) for The New York Times, as abdication of personal responsibility and an attack on Gould, whose performance Schonberg went on to criticize heavily. Bernstein always denied that this had been his intent and has stated that he made these remarks with Gould's blessing.

[regenerativemusic]

I didn't at first get the "primitive" aspect of Grandma Moses and instead thought it was more an accusation against the quality of the piece. Good call.

[ProgArtist]

We all know (and appreciate) Emerson's renditions of classical themes but the other way is no less interesting and prove how great a composer he was. Personally, I don't find this inferior in any way to Bernstein's (best) work.

Wow- really nice!

[Sean]

On his carpel tunnel-

http://www.laweekly.com/music/why-we...ndrome-6723079

"Musicians can't talk about their injuries because then they won't get hired anymore"

[Baribrotzer]

We all know (and appreciate) Emerson's renditions of classical themes but the other way is no less interesting and prove how great a composer he was. Personally, I don't find this inferior in any way to Bernstein's (best) work.

There's actually a bit of similarity between the two, and in a way, they're mirror images of one another. Bernstein was trained as a classical composer, but loved popular music. He is probably far better remembered for West Side Story, one of his essays into Broadway, than for any of his more formal works. However, even those formal works tended to be neither fish nor fowl - his own favorite of his large oeuvre was Mass, a huge and sprawling goulash of classical composition, Broadway-like songs, awkward attempts at rock, jazz, and singer-songwriter folk, experiments in atonal, aleatoric, and electronic techniques, and much more, all set to an often-awkward libretto by Stephen Schwarz. It's as "pretentious" as anything that ever came out of prog, and far more badly dated than most of it. But, like a lot of prog, it also contains flashes of brilliance and some amazing passages that make the whole thing worthwhile. (If you're interested, get the original 1971 version on Columbia, conducted by Bernstein himself. Even with its dated timbres in the "rock" sections, it contains the best performances.)

[undergroundrailroad]

Emerson
Zappa
Bernstein

All were working the same thing from different angles almost simultaneously. Emerson was the last to survive of that breed. There's really nobody like that anymore who brings classical to a wider and more contemporary stage in a sophisticated and entertaining way. I mean, there's Trans-Siberian Orchestra...

[undergroundrailroad]

Cool. Unreleased Keith.

Three movement string quartet with a couple sweet lyrical movements and an obnoxious blues.

http://slippedisc.com/2016/03/grippi...tring-quartet/

[MusicWarrior]

Cool. Unreleased Keith.

Three movement string quartet with a couple sweet lyrical movements and an obnoxious blues.

http://slippedisc.com/2016/03/grippi...tring-quartet/

Thanks a lot for that! Gonna listen to it ASAP. One more genuine prove that Emo's music actually stood the test of time!