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Thread: Legendary bands that hated each other!

  1. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    I think the only friction would be in the pre-Zeppelin days. Moon recorded "Beck's Bolero" with Jeff Beck and Jimmy Page. Moon was in one of his "gonna leave the Who" phases and Townshend accused Beck and Page of trying to steal his drummer.
    Entwistle was also supposed to be in on that deal, but didn't show up for the Beck's Bolero session. I remember he was asked once if he ever thought about leaving The Who, and he said something like, "I thought about leaving every other week!". Apparently, contractual obligations caused the collapse of the Moon/Entwistle/Beck/Page alliance, so Beck went on to form the first Jeff Beck Group, Moon and Entwistle went back to dodging punches from Daltrey and Townshend, and Page disappeared into obscurity.

  2. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by gpeccary View Post
    Who knows what happened between Ponty and Zappa?
    The story I heard was that Ponty regarded his solos as actual compositions, and thus expected to get a cut of the publishing for anything that made it onto record or whatever. Supposedly, Ponty was the only musician Frank ever worked with that he had nothing nice to say about.

  3. #178
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Ponty regarded his solos as actual compositions, and thus expected to get a cut of the publishing for anything that made it onto record or whatever.
    That doesn't sound unreasonable to me, given that Ponty's solos could take up a substantial portion of the songs he was on.

  4. #179
    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpeccary View Post
    Who knows what happened between Ponty and Zappa?
    http://www.united-mutations.com/p/jean_luc_ponty.htm

    Search on that page for "Alain".

  5. #180
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    The thing that shocks me with 'Beck's Bolero' is, this was recorded way back in 1966! Astonishing.

  6. #181
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    Steppenwolf had a good feud between John Kay and Goldie McJohn. Kay was getting the group back together in the 80's, and would not invite Goldy back. I heard all about from Goldy's point of view, he was hanging around our band, trying to convince us to fire our keyboardist and hire him. Goldy still does what he can to get along, but he signed away a LOT of his interests in Steppenwolf and proceeded do waste his assets away. Too bad. I talked to him about 10 years ago and he tried to convince me to quit my day job and go out on the road with him....

    He still thinks John Kay ripped him off.

  7. #182
    ^^ I've always wondered about that. John has always done so much humanitarian works that being like that doesn't ring true to me.
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  8. #183
    Member Koreabruce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Entwistle was also supposed to be in on that deal, but didn't show up for the Beck's Bolero session. I remember he was asked once if he ever thought about leaving The Who, and he said something like, "I thought about leaving every other week!". Apparently, contractual obligations caused the collapse of the Moon/Entwistle/Beck/Page alliance, so Beck went on to form the first Jeff Beck Group, Moon and Entwistle went back to dodging punches from Daltrey and Townshend, and Page disappeared into obscurity.
    On a related note, here's an interesting vignette, paraphrased, from Mick Wall's book When Giants Walked the Earth: Page had been trying to assemble a kind of "supergroup" with himself, Jeff Beck, Moon, and Entwistle, and he really wanted Steve Marriott to be the singer. He put feelers out to SM about it, hoping to steal him away from the Small Faces, and the latter was thrilled with the idea. Then a message was delivered to Page from "the business side" of SM's band, saying, "How would you like to play guitar with broken fingers?" Since "the business side" of Marriott was Don Arden, the self-proclaimed "Al Capone of Pop", this threat was taken very seriously.

  9. #184
    Member Joe F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    Steppenwolf had a good feud between John Kay and Goldie McJohn. Kay was getting the group back together in the 80's, and would not invite Goldy back. I heard all about from Goldy's point of view, he was hanging around our band, trying to convince us to fire our keyboardist and hire him. Goldy still does what he can to get along, but he signed away a LOT of his interests in Steppenwolf and proceeded do waste his assets away. Too bad. I talked to him about 10 years ago and he tried to convince me to quit my day job and go out on the road with him....

    He still thinks John Kay ripped him off.
    Iirc, you're from Washington, right?

    Goldie called me on the phone around '84-'85 for an add my band had in The Rocket looking for a keyboardist for a Progressive rock band. The add specifically said we played all original music. Goldie proceeded to ask me if we could play some cover songs and do regular weekend gigs. I told him no, and that was that. I think he said he was working at a golf course somewhere at the time.

  10. #185
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe F. View Post
    Iirc, you're from Washington, right?

    .

    Yep. until '99 Now happily Living in Texas. That 84-85 time was well after he gave up on us ever hiring him. Wow, the Rocket, Now that's a blast from the past.

    My Brother lives in Bothell, plays in local bands as a guitarist - do you still play?

    ronmac I have never heard anything about John Kay than what I heard from Goldy - I have no idea what "deal" he made with John - or whoever, but I do know he was not in contact with John at the time, and was at least a little bitter about his circumstances.

  11. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Koreabruce View Post
    On a related note, here's an interesting vignette, paraphrased, from Mick Wall's book When Giants Walked the Earth: Page had been trying to assemble a kind of "supergroup" with himself, Jeff Beck, Moon, and Entwistle, and he really wanted Steve Marriott to be the singer. He put feelers out to SM about it, hoping to steal him away from the Small Faces, and the latter was thrilled with the idea. Then a message was delivered to Page from "the business side" of SM's band, saying, "How would you like to play guitar with broken fingers?" Since "the business side" of Marriott was Don Arden, the self-proclaimed "Al Capone of Pop", this threat was taken very seriously.
    Don Arden later managed both Black Sabbath and ELO, referred to by Bev Bevan in his book as "the Godfather", apparently meaning it literally. Don's daughter, of course, is now Sharon Osbourne.

    Going back to the Beck/Page point for a second, I think another source of bad energy between the two of them was that, apparently, Page was the one who wrote Beck's Bolero, but Jeff co-opted it by giving it that title and using it on his record. I've always been curious about that, though. I get the impression that Jeff was/is a hard person to get along with. Note that each of the bands he was in, he wasn't in for very long. I believe The Tridents were only together for a couple years, he managed to get fired from The Yardbirds after something like just 18 months, both versions of the Jeff Beck Group and BBA each only lasted a couple years. For a long stretch, it seemed like every time he went on the road, it was a different band (to be fair, though, he didn't much touring during the 80's or the 90's). Maybe he's mellowed as a senior citizen, but I remember hearing all kinds of stories about his temper back in the day.

    I can't remember if it was Beck or Page who was asked once about how the relationship between the two of them was, I think at some point in the 80's, and the response was something like "I don't call him, and he doesn't call me". But then the two must have at least enough of a "mutual respect" for each other to perform during the Ronnie Lane ARMS benefit concerts in 1983 (the first time all three Yardbirds lead guitarists had performed together in public).

  12. #187
    re Steppenwolf: I remember in the Behind The Music show on them, John Kay said he fired Goldie from the band, originally, because Goldie would do acid, and as a result do stuff that was "offensive to outsiders". I don't know why a "bad ass rock n roll band" would care what "outsiders" think of the behaviour of the band members, but apparently Kay thought enough of the matter to fire Goldie over it. Or at least that's what he said on that occasion.

    Then in the late 70's, after Steppenwolf had finally broken up, some promoter offered John Kay some ridiculous amount of money to reform the band and go back on the road. Kay said he didn't see the point of doing a "farewell tour" (or whatever officially statement he had given announcing the break up of the band), to only go back on the road or whatever. The promoter then offered Goldie McJohn and Nick St. Nicholas (Steppenwolf's original bassist, who had also been kicked out of the band, apparently because Kay didn't like the way he dressed) a similar offer, so they struck a deal whereby they'd be allowed to use the Steppenwolf name for a couple years, but they gave up any claim they had on royalties or residuals for the band's recordings. At the time, nobody knew there was gonna be a big 60's nostalgia thing that was going to get in during the 80's, so they probably thought it was a good deal. And obviously it wasn't. John Kay described the matter as "I set a trap, and they fell into it", like he deliberately frelled them over, and he didn't care it was (at the time) 25 years later, and he was still frelling them over.

    At least, that's the way they made it sound on Behind The Music. At some point, I recall reading the band's Wikipedia page, and there that whole "Goldie and Nick using the Steppenwolf name" period seems to be much more convoluted than the way the VH-1 people made it sound.

    I also seem to recall hearing a couple times that Kay had to go back on the road in the 80's to "repair" damage to the band's reputation caused by "bogus" bands claiming to be Steppenwolf (that's literally how magazine article I read back in the 80's put it).

  13. #188
    ^^ Not liking the clothes Nick was wearing is an understatement. He was off the deep end. The shit he was coming onto stage with was total glam (or worse) and just didn't fit the band image at all. The VH1 show painted a pretty sympathetic picture of the incident, and St. Nicholas in particular, but John simply had had enough.

    John's biography is a good read.
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  14. #189
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    they struck a deal whereby they'd be allowed to use the Steppenwolf name for a couple years, but they gave up any claim they had on royalties or residuals for the band's recordings. At the time, nobody knew there was gonna be a big 60's nostalgia thing that was going to get in during the 80's, so they probably thought it was a good deal. And obviously it wasn't.
    This was the story I heard as well-- Kay allowed the Steppenwolf name to be used by a bunch of ex-band members to tour without him, in exchange for them giving up royalties on existing recordings. Then the CD revival happened, Kay didn't have to share any of the royalties, and the touring Steppenwolf band(s) made a few bucks on the county fair circuit but nothing ongoing. Kay came out smelling like a rose!

  15. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    This was the story I heard as well-- Kay allowed the Steppenwolf name to be used by a bunch of ex-band members to tour without him, in exchange for them giving up royalties on existing recordings. Then the CD revival happened, Kay didn't have to share any of the royalties, and the touring Steppenwolf band(s) made a few bucks on the county fair circuit but nothing ongoing. Kay came out smelling like a rose!
    I don't think that's correct at all. From what I understand, he had nothing to do with the fake band and was forced to reform a group and call them John Kay and Steppenwolf. He has consistently been very adamant about this and protecting the legacy of the band.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  16. #191
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    Page and Beck made their peace at some point. I recall an interview with both of them in a guitar mag over a couple decades ago and they talked about jamming in Beck's garage on a semi-regular basis. Apparently when he's in the UK, a Mr. Richards often joins them. Mr. Clapton, not so much. At Beck's now legendary Ronnie Scott gig, Page and Plant are at a table.

    In the early 80s, Kay made an album under the John Kay and Steppenwolf for Nautilus, an audiophile label. A store I worked in stocked it. Sounded damn good but I don't think anyone other than Kay was in the original band.
    Last edited by Jerjo; 03-12-2016 at 11:49 AM.
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