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Thread: Wigwam -- Early Finnish Progressive Band

  1. #51
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    re: Dark Album
    Quote Originally Posted by Conti View Post
    Good to know that. Actually I stopped buying their records at Golden Stripes, which for me was a big step down from Nuclear Nightclub. Maybe I should try it someday.
    IF you are a big fan, then Dark Album is well worth owning. I think it has some of Pekka Rechardt's best soloing in Wigwam context as well (one of my favorite 'rock' guitarists and a woefully, woefully unknown player)
    Steve F.

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    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ^

    Well, compared to some of the autotuned retardic rubbish passing as 'pop' today, much of ABBA's stuff would probably rather appear 'progressive'.

    (...)
    I agree.


  3. #53
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffCarney View Post
    Nuclear Nightclub is brilliant pop rock.

    They ran out of steam after that for me. The subsequent albums weren't "bad" or anything but Nuclear Nightclub set a high bar which they couldn't come close to following, IMO.
    I like Lucky Golden Stripes and Starpose more than Nuclear Nightclub. Dark Album is also very underappreciated.
    My progressive music site: https://pienemmatpurot.com/ Reviews in English: https://pienemmatpurot.com/in-english/

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    As for the individual talents of the musicians, Tolonen was probably one of the most accomplished guitarists around at the time. This was a guy with the speed of a Spedding or early McLaughlin, the stamina of a Beck or Akkerman and yet the feel of Hendrix and Green. And he was 17 years old when making his mark. You clearly get the picture when listening to something like the Lambertland album, which is a bonafide virtuoso progressive jazz-rock showcase with astoundingly great songwriting and arrangements to boot, but you really have to dig into his solo material to see the refinements of his craft. Goodness, the guy was still only 19 or something when he made that first solo record of his.

    I have just checked some (more) tunes from Tolonen's first solo album and it is amazing indeed. I will definitely need to grab a copy on CD. Thanks for bringing it up!

  5. #55
    Member Zalmoxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay.Dee View Post
    I have just checked some (more) tunes from Tolonen's first solo album and it is amazing indeed. I will definitely need to grab a copy on CD. Thanks for bringing it up!
    The first 4 are worth trying and also the JTB from '79 which features Apetrea.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    I like Lucky Golden Stripes and Starpose more than Nuclear Nightclub. Dark Album is also very underappreciated.
    I agree. Lucky Golden Stripes is darker and more cumbersome and was also much harder to make than the venerated hit album Nuclear Nightclub, but it has always appealed to me more. Dark Album has some of the pop-Wigwam's best tunes. It is patchier partly because the group had to rework it heavily, after the original version Daemon Duncetan's Request was not deemed up to scratch.

  7. #57
    Member Kanukisbrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    I agree. Lucky Golden Stripes is darker and more cumbersome and was also much harder to make than the venerated hit album Nuclear Nightclub, but it has always appealed to me more. Dark Album has some of the pop-Wigwam's best tunes. It is patchier partly because the group had to rework it heavily, after the original version Daemon Duncetan's Request was not deemed up to scratch.
    If you track down the remainder of "Daemon Duncetan"s Request" (various bonus tracks and sources) and put it back together, you realize what a shame it wasn't released... solid LP with a nice flowing feel rather than the patchyness of the "Dark Album"

    Tracklist "Daemon Duncetan"s Request"
    A1 The Big Farewell *
    A2 Horace's Aborted Rip-Off Scheme *
    A3 Cheap Evening Return *
    B1 The Vegetable Rumble *
    B2 Grass For Blades
    B3 Turn Stone To Bread aka Daemon Duncetan"s Request

    * all these tracks were moved to the Dark Album and were remixed and/or rerecorded


    tracks added to "Dark Album"
    Oh Marlene!
    The Item Is The Totem
    The Silver Jubilee
    Helsinki Nights
    Last edited by Kanukisbrave; 02-10-2016 at 12:34 PM.

    "Angels die, redemption rages
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    And chances are
    This will save your soul or break it forever "

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    I like Lucky Golden Stripes and Starpose more than Nuclear Nightclub. Dark Album is also very underappreciated.
    The same with me.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by regenerativemusic View Post
    Pekka Pohjola I see has many solo albums, some with Mike Oldfield and Pierre Moerlen.

    Just one with Oldfield and Moerlen.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Svetonio View Post
    Nope. It was brilliant vocally fusion i.e. it was prog back in 1975.
    Have fun with genre semantics.

    The important distinction is that, after Pembroke became the leader, the band changed direction quite a bit. Calling it "Pop Rock" works for me. I'd probably call ABBA just "Pop." But, tbh, I don't really give a fuck. If there is a "vocally fusion" genre that some feel better describes this period, then alright.

  11. #61
    Member Jay.Dee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffCarney View Post
    I'd probably call ABBA just "Pop."
    For me they were prog...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBRssEnlOEk

    with a bit a funk...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc8Y0mbvdUk

    and beatlesque touch...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZnwHeSnOJc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iGP5bIjyIc

    with a healthy dose of brass rock inspired by Spencer Davis Group...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKR8nmp1d0k

    and hard-rock guitar riffing...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA_1BA2MrBI


  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanukisbrave View Post
    If you track down the remainder of "Daemon Duncetan"s Request" (various bonus tracks and sources)
    Two bonus tracks on the Love reissue, and the other? Fresh Garbage comp?
    "Always ready with the ray of sunshine"

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanukisbrave View Post
    If you track down the remainder of "Daemon Duncetan"s Request" (various bonus tracks and sources) and put it back together, you realize what a shame it wasn't released... solid LP with a nice flowing feel rather than the patchyness of the "Dark Album"

    Tracklist "Daemon Duncetan"s Request"
    A1 The Big Farewell *
    A2 Horace's Aborted Rip-Off Scheme *
    A3 Cheap Evening Return *
    B1 The Vegetable Rumble *
    B2 Grass For Blades
    B3 Turn Stone To Bread aka Daemon Duncetan"s Request

    * all these tracks were moved to the Dark Album and were remixed and/or rerecorded


    tracks added to "Dark Album"
    Oh Marlene!
    The Item Is The Totem
    The Silver Jubilee
    Helsinki Nights
    I never liked that version of "Grass For Blades", mainly because of Pedro Hietanen's ugly Odyssey sound.

    The original version was accidentally released when "Dark Album was reissued on vinyl in the mid-eighties. When the error was noticed it was withdrawn but there's about 200 copies on circulation.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by strawberrybrick View Post
    Two bonus tracks on the Love reissue, and the other? Fresh Garbage comp?
    The original versions apart from two bonustracks have never been released on cd. "Fresh Garbage" has nothing from "Dark Album" sessions.

  15. #65

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    re: Dark Album

    IF you are a big fan, then Dark Album is well worth owning. I think it has some of Pekka Rechardt's best soloing in Wigwam context as well (one of my favorite 'rock' guitarists and a woefully, woefully unknown player)
    I also vote for Pekka Rechardt as one of my favorite guitarists: his cool arpeggiated chording practically defines the later Wigwam sound and his soloing is always measured and elegant, but full of feeling, as if he's composing it on the spot, not just playing scales. Reminds me of what Steve Vai once said about Zappa: he's still as musical and composed at the end of an eight minute solo as he is at the beginning, while most rock guitarists would be jumping and playing faster and louder, aiming for a big climax. Pekka's playing in the video of Grass for Blades live in the studio is astounding.

  17. #67
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    ^ ^

    As Ben Monder said when I finally saw him play and I said 'hi' to him afterwards and told him that I was a bit fan of his work,

    "Oh! So you're the guy..."

    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  18. #68
    http://www.allthelyrics.com/lyrics/w...#ixzz3zp8PGBX9

    Grass For Blades

    Atomic man, embossed on hues of
    Money greens that swell and ooze, will
    Scratch his chin as if to muse that
    All this winning meant to lose
    Though he slaved and hate his dues
    Here he was, no time to choose
    A way to change and try to fuse him-
    self into the waiting queues of
    those still hoping for some news
    about anything

    "Attack you fools!" the captain bawls
    "I will have your heads upon my walls!" so
    Rows of heroes crouch to crawls, bomb
    Bamboo huts and village halls, smash
    Ping-pong bats with cannon balls, as
    Ali-Baba's sheiks and sauls
    they Debag Goliath as he falls
    and the Statue Of Liberty climbs and mauls
    everything

    "Champagne for the heroe whore
    And watch your step man in all that gore
    But not too much, he'll scream for more"
    El pres. advices from the door
    "For though he's filled from skin to core
    It's not enough he'll whine for sure, so
    Say it's we who keep the score, and
    nail him back upon the floor, yeh"

    So there he works, still at large
    Behind his smiles and his camouflage
    Of nice white coats and college grades that
    Hide blue suits with golden braids
    And though I hope that smell just fades
    It does not go but leads to raids on
    Bamboo huts in the country glades
    Where the people use the grass for blades, ain't that something

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    I can certainly believe this, stressing the 'adequate'. These were the days when rock groups were essentiallly expected to sound *better* in concert than on record, and one would rather not see original material of such a firm nature tarnished by way of sloppy live versions. When listening to Being I hear a most through-composed programme of songs, parts and textures, meaning down to the tiniest detail of how those doubled voices are mixed etc. There's just no way one would have been able to reproduce that in a live setting back in the mid-70s.

    As for the individual talents of the musicians, Tolonen was probably one of the most accomplished guitarists around at the time. This was a guy with the speed of a Spedding or early McLaughlin, the stamina of a Beck or Akkerman and yet the feel of Hendrix and Green. And he was 17 years old when making his mark. You clearly get the picture when listening to something like the Lambertland album, which is a bonafide virtuoso progressive jazz-rock showcase with astoundingly great songwriting and arrangements to boot, but you really have to dig into his solo marerial to see the refinements of his craft. Goodness, the guy was still only 19 or something when he made that first solo record of his.
    As a 1-2 punch, Lambert Land and Being compete with any two albums from the UK during the same era. Or ever?

    Trying to find a YT video for Cheap Day Return, my fave from the Dark Album.
    "Always ready with the ray of sunshine"

  20. #70
    Stuff touched on or hinted at in this thread that I second, or agree with or whatever:

    Pembroke's last album (If the Rain Comes) is really good. Surprisingly so, once you get past the first, rather low-key track. On the whole, it has more of Pembroke's quirky, edgy side and less of his straight-ahead, rootsy tendencies. And that is a good thing. IMO it's comfortably better than Wigwam's Light Ages, way, way better than Titan's Wheel, and probably a shade better than Some Several Moons too.

    Rechardt's Snakecharm from 2007 was also quite nice. His guitar work had been a bit too muted on the reformed Wigwam albums, but that wasn't a problem on Snakecharm.

    And Pembroke is sorely undervalued as a lyricist.

    I also like the darker, more cynical LGS&S just as much (and sometimes a bit more) than the lighter Nuclear Nightclub. The two are yin and yang. Both excellent.

    Dark Album is very different but also really good and it sucked that Wigwam essentially faded away afterwards.
    I'm glad that they re-formed in the 90s and 2000s and would love to see them make another rekkid. Not holding my breath though.

    Jukka Tolonen is wonderful. So was Tasavallan Presidentti.

    What I have from Pohola and Gustavson is, on the whole, excellent and sometimes fantastic. ...jaloa ylpeyttä yletän... ylevää nöyryyttä nousen is great but I really love Valon Vuoski. Wonderful, meditative and indulgent, like only good progressive music can be.
    Pohola's music was consistent and often brilliant, from Pihkasilmä kaarnakorva up through Views. It's also really funny how many different ways Keesojen lehto was released. Was it a Pohola album, or a Mike Oldfield album? Depends on the version you have, I guess. But if I had to cite a gun-to-my-head favorite Pohola rekkid I just might say Space Waltz.

    It's sad that Ronnie Osterberg died, especially so young. He went virtually unnoticed, but how many drummers could have so successfully navigated as many distinctively talented composers and strong musical personalities?
    Hired on to work for Mr. Bill Cox, a-fixin' lawn mowers and what-not, since 1964.

    "Arguing with an idiot is like playing chess with a pigeon. It'll just knock over all the pieces, shit on the board, and strut about like it's won anyway." Anonymous

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  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by strawberrybrick View Post
    As a 1-2 punch, Lambert Land and Being compete with any two albums from the UK during the same era. Or ever?
    Yes, I would concur. But that's what you get with music academy buffs who fall to the temptations of 60s Dionysian values and simply freak out accordingly. I think one of the basic reasons why Tasavallan and Wigwam became so remarkably distinctive was that they essentially worked out from a 'first principle'; rather than wanting to "sound like" any given other artist, they built on ground influences to carve out their very own - thus landing on the same Level as some of the names they are usually compared with.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  22. #72
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    Although I'm familiar with many of Tolonen's solo records, I still need to buy most of them. Maybe in my next trip to Scandinavia I'm able to find them somewhere. I remember buying Pohjola's second and third records on Digelius in Helsinki, I wonder if they are still in the business.

    Regarding Tasavallan, I only own Lambertland, which is great. Do they have anything as strong as this?

    Based on the recommendations on this thread, I've just ordered Dark Album. Thanks.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Conti View Post
    Regarding Tasavallan, I only own Lambertland, which is great. Do they have anything as strong as this?
    Not really, although their second album (simply called Tasavallan Presidentti from late 1970) and Milky Way Moses (1974) are both solid. The former is more of a brassy yet guitar-heavy 'proto-prog' kind of affair, while Moses follows on the heels of Lambert Land but lacks the possessed energy and blunt display of virtuosity found there. I don't think the melodic material is quite as strong either. But still worth hearing!
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  24. #74
    Member viukkis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conti View Post
    Although I'm familiar with many of Tolonen's solo records, I still need to buy most of them. Maybe in my next trip to Scandinavia I'm able to find them somewhere. I remember buying Pohjola's second and third records on Digelius in Helsinki, I wonder if they are still in the business.

    Regarding Tasavallan, I only own Lambertland, which is great. Do they have anything as strong as this?
    Digelius is still going strong. There's also Record Shop X that ships worldwide and has loads of Finnish prog CDs available in mid-price.

    IMO Lambertland is easily the best Tasavallan Presidentti album, but the follow-up album Milky Way Moses is quite good too, although a bit patchier and feels a little padded out at times. The title track is nevertheless as good as anything on Lambertland. The first two albums are more proto-proggy with a different singer and obvious blues influence, a bit in the vein of Traffic or early Jethro Tull. I like them too, but not for the same reasons as Lambertland.

  25. #75
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    ^ what he says.
    Tolonens soloalbums - the first is my favorite, later on he gets more and more jazzfusionmainstream and the Finnish folk elements disappears.
    There is some good acoustic albums later on.

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