I'm Too Old To Prog 'n Roll

**Splicer** · 01-31-2016

After years of denial, I have come to the conclusion that a large portion of new music categorized as Progressive Rock has so much of a Metal influence that I'm hard-pressed to find something I like. Prog Metal is clearly that. However, whether it's Neo or Symphonic, the two of the more melodic styles that I prefer, there is often a sizeable tinge of Metal, usually in the guitar playing. Perhaps it's become a visceral thing for me, but that buzzing sound in the guitar effects that seem derived from the Metal genre are so annoying to me that I simply can't stand hearing them.

I'm clearly showing my age (I'm 52), but I've always preferred that "soaring" guitar sound that, for me, goes from Gilmour to Hackett to Rothery to Stolt. Throw in some Howe flourishes and runs. Throw in some of the Frippish forever-note feedback and I'm good.

Now, Neo/Sympho is not all I like. I'm very much a fan of the jazz influences as well whether Soft Machine or Magma. I like the King Crimson school of music. However, and I hate to put it this way, my "comfort" Prog is the styles I first mentioned. It's the same way that Hard or Post Bop are my preferred Jazz styles and late-Romantic is my favorite classic style.

I'm thinking it's just the way musicians are influenced that's changed. A lot of guitarists are now influenced not by the Blues but by Metal, so they adopt that as the way they play. It's just that the tone of the guitar work and the desire to play shredding solos knocks me out of my moment when I'm listening. At least I have a lot of music that's older to listen to.

**Stumpybunker** · 01-31-2016

Have to say, I've probably moved on from 'Prog', 'neo Proge' and the like. I've always have a roving eye for new musics, even though they become a sum of my musical tastes. For example, Big Big Train a few years ago would've had me shouting from the rooftops. Today, I see and hear the quality, I buy the CDs, but it just doesn't move me like it used to, whereas more'difficult' or avant garde stuff does. Still like to know what goes on in this sphere though, as I hold many fond memories of Prog.

**Rarebird** · 01-31-2016

I still like a lot of music including some metal and I'm 56.

At this moment I'm listening to In Extremo

**bob_32_116** · 01-31-2016

I think there is still plenty of progressive music being made that is not metallic in the slightest, and is also not merely a rehash of the 70's symphonic prog sound.

A couple of Kscope acts come to mind: Nosound, and iamthemorning (mentioned here recently in connection with a new upcoming album). Those artists may be too mellow for your tastes, i don't know, but might be worth checking them out.

**Rick Robson** · 01-31-2016

Funny, Splicer. I was listening to Schubert's Fantasy in F Minor (for 4 hands), when then stumbled upon your thread. And your thoughts brought me into consideration how deeply one's taste can change, at least from my personal experience. Back in the 80's I was amazed at every Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, BS, ACDC, R.J.Dio releases, to name a few. And today, that developed characteristic Metal aggressiveness, already present back then, far puts me off, as well as those typical guitar riffs you mentioned.

I still listen to a bunch of Black Sabbath stuff, though not often, and quite a bit occasionally a few Iron Maiden tracks, but my interests now run through music that conveys a wider emotional pallette to me. Much of the mind blowing music to me today actually expresses an original mix of deep tenderness, intense joy and other intense emotions, feelings and sensations, often by even one sole composition, like the one I was just listening to. Music, though, like any other artistic activity, can rise different emotions, feelings and sensations on each individual.

**Jeremy Bender** · 01-31-2016

I'm 56, when I was in my 20's I would listen to albums a lot, I'd play Brain Salad Surgery or Relayer every day for weeks on end. Now, since I could shuffle off this mortal coil at any moment, I don't do that. I want to hear new stuff constantly, so while I'm listening to Black Sabbath a lot in anticipation of seeing them on the 11th, I usually am constantly in search of new stuff. Thanks to my Dad I've been listening to orchestral music since the late 60's, I got in to opera in 1988 (thank you Benjamin Britten!). I've met a lot of fans of those genres who have huge LP/CD collections but when you look at what those are, there's 32 versions of a narrow range of pieces. My favorite opera composer is Franz Schreker (here's an excerpt from Act IV of his wonderful Der Schatzgräber):

I have every legal (and not-so-legal) recording of Schreker's glorious operas that exist (i.e. are sold and traded), but I'll listen to them once and file them away.

As for prog, I'm almost a stereotype of the "Loves the Big 5/6/7 during their early 70's period + likes Neo- bands like Marillion and IQ" type.

**spacefreak** · 01-31-2016

The new ones were almost all, metalheads as teens. All of them grew up on that metal guitar sound. Better avoid neo and current sympho, things won't change in the future.

**Progatron** · 01-31-2016

I like prog and I like metal, but I tend to prefer they stay separate with only a couple of exceptions. What I really can't stand is when a prog band I really like suddenly shifts into that bland prog-metal territory (Knight Area, Arena, etc.)... what a waste. I have a stack of PROG magazine sampler CDs that probably 75% consists of metallish stuff that did absolutely nothing for me. Not a trend I care for.

**bob_32_116** · 01-31-2016

There is a bunch of current Australian bands that seem to be labelled as "progressive". Karnivool are a typical example. Whenever I hear any of the stuff it always sounds to me like "prog metal", and the metal is well to the fore, often bordering on thrash. You lhave to listen for the progressiveness, if indeed it's there at all.

**JJ88** · 01-31-2016

I totally agree. That shred-guitar style is bland-ola to me by now and very samey- stuck in the 1980s 'big hair' era. You can play fast, we get it. What new ideas can you bring to the table.

**Jerjo** · 01-31-2016

After spending almost a couple decades listening to prog metal I've pretty much given up on the genre. I still listen to Rush (to a ridiculous degree), Tool, and the more metallic Porcupine Tree releases but that's about it. Tastes change and evolve y'know. In fact, other than my personal top ten prog acts, I don't listen to much prog anymore. Stoner has pretty much taken up the bandwidth that was occupied by prog metal and even a lot of prog. Newer metal, with those cookie monster vocals, staccato riffage, etc does nothing for me.

**StevegSr** · 01-31-2016

I'm not too old to rock and roll. I'm just too old to breakdance on my head while going down a banister.

And I'm still waiting for the a new Cynic album.

**Patelena396** · 01-31-2016

My issue isn't so much with prog metal. For the most part, I have never gravitated to that form of the genre much. I make if a point to not live in the past with prog or music in general and I still buy a a lot of new progressive rock. There is some good stuff out there, but if I am being fully honest, very little of it takes me to the level of excitement of the classic prog that I loved when I was younger. Part of that could be that I am getting older but I also wonder about just how much music that there is out there these days. Is it too much of a good thing? Overall, it is wonderful that the modem music scene has created a platform for so many bands and solo artists to get their musi out there. On the other hand, I wonder if there was something to the old days when the record labels would work to distinguish between the good bands and the ones who were capable of greatness. I don't know what it it is really and don't get me wrong, I still really enjoy a lot of the newer progressive music that I hear. That said, albums that I would call truly essential come around somewhat infrequently these days.

**zombywoof** · 01-31-2016

I've heard prog, I've heard metal. I'd prefer to hear things I haven't heard before.

**Rick Robson** · 01-31-2016

Originally Posted by zombywoof

I've heard prog, I've heard metal. I'd prefer to hear things I haven't heard before.

I'd feel the same on here, but regarding every music form per se it's such a vast world that I am always opened to new discoveries on them. Apart from that, I'd also prefer to hear again and again things I've heard before but still love them as much today.

**MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER** · 01-31-2016

I too have noticed that more newer bands seem to be adding that Metal-ic sound to their palette. I listened to the new Special Providence album and they gone almost completely Prog Metal now. That sound wears thin very quickly. I don't mind a Metal-ic bridge in *some* songs on an album, but a whole album of that sound is grating...
less is more in the case of the Metal sound for me too

**rickawakeman** · 01-31-2016

I dig Arena (heavy neo) and Threshold (prog metal.) What are the differences between the two? Is it the "heaviness" of double bass drumming and some shredding that differentiates the two subgenres?

**progeezer** · 01-31-2016

I'm a mere child of 71, and while most of my younger metal proclivities have faded into the sunset, I still love and listen to Maiden to this day. They will always be a PROG-metal band to me. They're just that much better technically and more creative than others of their ilk imo. YMM, of course, V.

If you factor in bands like early DT, Symphony and Kings X, Morglbl (Christophe told me once that he was weaned on metal in France), as well as my penchant (fetish?

) for "beauty & the beast" bands like Nightwish, Within T, Epica & Lacuna Coil that I still enjoy, maybe I spoke too soon about fading proclivities

.

**rickawakeman** · 01-31-2016

I don't think it's a matter of age as much as sensibilities. I have a penchant for the heavier side of the spectrum due to Deep Purple having been my portal to prog album back in '71. My prog bud abhors heavy stuff with any hints of metal.

**yamishogun** · 01-31-2016

Originally Posted by rickawakeman

I dig Arena (heavy neo) and Threshold (prog metal.) What are the differences between the two? Is it the "heaviness" of double bass drumming and some shredding that differentiates the two subgenres?

I assumed I was the only Threshold fan on PE and not a prog metal fan apart from them (I wouldn't even say they are prog metal but others seem too). I haven't gotten into the last two albums since as with Threshold, they seem to be recycling older ideas, so I was mostly into them from 2001 to 2009. The band's sound is also a little too polished for me.

**Digital_Man** · 01-31-2016

I've noticed the metal "infiltration" in modern prog too. I'm not sure what band started this all. Maybe Porcupine Tree. Prog and metal used to be pretty separate for the most part but overly crunchy guitars somehow made their way into regular prog. Not all newer prog does the metal guitar thing but a lot of it does and it's not all prog metal proper.

Some early examples imo:

Some Flower Kings albums

Porcupine Tree - in absentia (possibly earlier) 2002

Magic Pie - Motions of desire (first album) 2005

White Willow - Storm Season 2004

Arena - Immortal? 2000 (I didn't first hear this one until maybe 3 or 4 years ago)

I'm sure there are plenty of other examples even earlier but the first times I noticed it in a big way was mainly with those.

**Digital_Man** · 01-31-2016

Originally Posted by Progatron

I like prog and I like metal, but I tend to prefer they stay separate with only a couple of exceptions. What I really can't stand is when a prog band I really like suddenly shifts into that bland prog-metal territory (Knight Area, Arena, etc.)... what a waste. I have a stack of PROG magazine sampler CDs that probably 75% consists of metallish stuff that did absolutely nothing for me. Not a trend I care for.

I feel pretty much the same way although I am starting to become more open to prog metal especially if the lead singer doesn't sound like James LeBrie. I think maybe it's the synthesizers that don't really fit in with metal. I don't mind the long compositions and complexity but the keyboards don't really go with metal imo. Maybe if they used organ it would be ok. I've never had a problem with vintage Deep Purple for that reason. Sometimes the heaviness just doesn't really mix with what most prog bands are trying to accomplish. All in my opinion of course.

**Jerjo** · 01-31-2016

Originally Posted by progeezer

as well as my penchant (fetish?

) for "beauty & the beast" bands like Nightwish, Within T, Epica & Lacuna Coil that I still enjoy, maybe I spoke too soon about fading proclivities

.

Jebus, that Nightwish live video of Over the Hills and Far Away with that soprano in the lace-up white dress. As Mick once sang, "you'd make a dead man cum"

**Liquid Tension** · 02-01-2016

I'll soon be 52 and I'm drifting a way from the softer prog music more and more each year... I mostly entertain it now because of the wife and daughter so I have something to listen to in the car with them...

Give me those metal flourishes anytime and I can never get enough of the older Opeth or Pain of Salvation sound...