Not in Praise of Lists

[bondegezou]

I sometimes see people posting long lists of albums. The best of 2015, the best proto-prog, the best avant-prog of the last decade, and so on. I don't find these long lists very useful; I don't have time to explore 30 albums someone has recommended. Recommend me one or two, and I'll listen but what can I do with these lists?

I thought this was an interesting comment on the subject: http://www.rochester.edu/College/tra...x.php?id=16352 It's about books rather than music, but the same principle applies.

Henry

[battema]

Well...

I don't look at every list, or every item on every list. But I do look for common threads among folks whose tastes/opinions align somewhat with my own. For example, I checked out Hooffoot because enough folks mentioned them in their various 2015 Best-Of lists. If people only listed one or two, it'd be harder to pick up on some of the more outside ideas.

Just my $0.02.

[nosebone]

I love lists

[moecurlythanu]

I agree with Henry. I even like lisps better than lists, and I don't like them very much.

I do make an exception for shopping lists, though. If I don't take a list with me when I go shopping, I always forget something.

[ronmac]

I love lists

I love lists of lists.

[JKL2000]

You could:

1. Pretend they don't exist.
2. Block the original poster.
3. Flag the thread.
4. Just skim the list.
5. Start an alternative thread that uses a different format.

[undergroundrailroad]

I love making lists for myself. Enormous, sometimes pointless lists. Sometimes they're overwhelming and too big to encompass in a lifetime. Sort of like having 2 hours to visit the Louvre. Sometimes I use the lists of others to augment my own; that's the biggest reason I'd go out to seek a list.

The one thing I don't like about lists is they give the list maker an excuse not to go in-depth about any particular item. The bigger the list, the less in-depth one tends to be. A list gives binary information - is something included in the list or not? Now on the other hand, annotated lists, those are the bees knees!

Lists suck when the list maker is sharing the list to indicate his own comprehensive mastery of a subject. A list can indicate the opposite. Lists of things are easy to make. Intelligent discussion of an item on the list takes insight. When you see a long list made by somebody, feel free to ask them what they think about an item a third of the way down. Don't be surprised if it takes a few days for them to answer.

It's inherent in a forum that draws collector types for there to be lists. Nobody is forcing anybody to read the lists, no matter how ill-advised. Sort of like nobody would be forced to listen to a new Yes album should they make one, no matter how ill-advised.

It does make sense to keep list threads segregated from the main forum. I know from experience, once list makers starts making lists, they can be hard to stop.

My wife can't stand looking at lists, being given lists or making lists. So from that perspective, Henry, I understand where you're coming from.

[bob_32_116]

I think it depends on what the list is supposed to be for. If it's a list of recommendations, say "favourite electronic artists", then a bare list without individual descriptions doesn't help much, and the longer the list, the worse it is, because it's going to contain good, bad and indifferent all mixed in and you could waste a lot of time checking them all out for yourself.

Something like "Today's Featured CD" is much more useful to me. It's in a way the very opposite of a list. It explores one work in depth; most of them are unfamiliar to me, and they often generate discussion and information about the artist's other work, and about related artists.

[notallwhowander]

Yep. The long lists tend to deaden the impact of the recommendation, imo. I usually skip right over them. But then, I assume that the long lists were made for the joy of making a long list, simply because the poster can make a long list. Or, it could be a rather shotgun approach to see if anyone else enjoys the same obscurities. In other words, an actual recommendation may be far from the main point in posting a long list.

Also, sometimes it comes across as showing off and rather hipstery. However, that's a rather dim and uncharitable view.

[MJBrady]

After having had severe brain issues(tumor, hemorrhage, tbi), lists have become an essential part of my day to day survival in this world of information, certain threads here at PE provide nice examples of not only new music, but the obscure and forgotten old stuff as well, so for my tastes, lists are great. It seems easy enough for the OP to simply skip over them rather that trying to decipher them or explore their depths. Just my take. On another note, It is very nice of folks here to actually go to the trouble of offering this compilations of lists to help the scene thrive, it can't hurt any.

[JKL2000]

My wife can't stand looking at lists, being given lists or making lists.

Does that include menus?

My wife used to like making lists but I think she sort of outgrew it.

The only kind of lists I make are shopping lists, to-do lists, and packing lists.

I'm really not a big fan of list threads myself. I don't mind looking at other peoples lists, but usually can't bring myself to make my own. To difficult to a) recall everything and b) make choices.

[bob_32_116]

My favourite list:

The_Leaning_Tower_of_Pisa_SB.jpg

[Oreb]

"This is no way to exist,
With some girl who keeps a list
Naming all the boys she's missed
And longs for in the morning"

- Richard Thompson

[walt]

I'm feeling listless lately.

[Jerjo]

I used to thrive on the things but now, it's been there done that. I usually ignore list threads. I'd rather have a dialog about music or listen to camples than peruse lists. Note, this does not include lists regarding hot actresses of the 60s and 70s.

[bob_32_116]

Listeriosis [li-steer-ee-oh-sis] noun, plural listerioses [li-steer-ee-oh-seez] Veterinary Pathology.
1. a disease of wild and domestic mammals, birds, and occasionally of humans, caused by a bacterium, Listeria monocytogenes, and characterized by lack of control of movement, paralysis, fever, and the compulsive compilation of lists.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

After having had severe brain issues(tumor, hemorrhage, tbi), lists have become an essential part of my day to day survival in this world of information, certain threads here at PE provide nice examples of not only new music, but the obscure and forgotten old stuff as well, so for my tastes, lists are great. It seems easy enough for the OP to simply skip over them rather that trying to decipher them or explore their depths. Just my take. On another note, It is very nice of folks here to actually go to the trouble of offering this compilations of lists to help the scene thrive, it can't hurt any.

I like when people post *specific* lists with a narrow target. Say, in a thread of 'best Electronic Prog albums of the 70s"
What I don't like is when some of the list makers then proceed to ignore the "70s" part and post albums from the 80s - 2010s or worse yet ignore the "best" part and list every single Electronic Prog artist they can think of.

I will go through a list methodically and investigate anything I haven't heard of before if the list maker is a person whose taste in music I trust.

[Zeuhlmate]

Listening can be useful

[Halmyre]

eJQenRQh.jpg

[Splicer]

Lists and rankings and halls of fame are all too subjective when it comes to art. Someone is going to say that The Force Awakens is the best film of the year and someone else is going to say some depressing indie film is the best. Who's right and why are they right?

[Vic2012]

Everything has to be labeled, compartmentalized, ranked, sorted, listed, alphabetized, chronologized (not sure that's a word), etc. I don't mind "Rank 'Em" lists as long as the OP isn't too anal retentive. Like when someone starts a thread and asks for Top-10, Top-15, 20, etc. and a poster doesn't adhere to the exact number the OP asks for, and then the OP throws a hissy fit, it sucks all the "fun" out of it. I'd like to hear what some of the psychologists here have to say about this obsessive need to list, compartmentalize, rate, rank, etc. music, sports, art, whatever. I'm pretty sure I read a post on PE years ago by a female member who said that most men have some form of mild autism.

[mkeneally]

Listomania

[Sputnik]

I'd like to hear what some of the psychologists here have to say about this obsessive need to list, compartmentalize, rate, rank, etc. music, sports, art, whatever.

In his book Thinking, Fast and Slow, Psychologist Daniel Kahneman talks about categorization and compartmentalization as a very natural action of the human brain. It makes us really good at certain kinds of things, like recognizing danger or coming to conclusions where swift action is required. It's also what makes us bad at certain other kinds of thinking, like statistical thinking, because our brains are lazy and we tend to fall back on those categorizations, which often mislead us into making an intuitive but incorrect choice.

I think the lists and categories are people's way of sorting out a lot of information so they can act on it. Kanheman basically says it's useless trying to be rid of categorization, it just isn't going to happen. It's what humans do. I agree, one can take it too far and get too caught up in categorizing or listing. But there are definitely some uses for lists and categories that are helpful, and probably at some level everyone does these things, sometimes perhaps without even recognizing they are doing it.

I loaned the book to my father-in-law or I'd post a couple of passages from Thinking, Fast and Slow that speak to this issue. It's a really good book for those interested in that kind of stuff, I recommend it.

Bill

[PeterG]

As much as I love lists..hello!

I find it more useful when someone is really passionate about one individual band or one specific album and creates a new thread for it recommending that we all listen to that band or album, in cases like that I often do go away and listen to it.
In that way I have discovered several bands here on PE that I like, SGM, Big Big Train, Karda Estra, Faust, Nektar, PFM to name just a few that I hadn't heard of before joining PE.

However, when someone comes across as all fired up about 30 new albums or 30 new bands, I rarely take any notice.

[Vic2012]

In his book Thinking, Fast and Slow, Psychologist Daniel Kahneman talks about categorization and compartmentalization as a very natural action of the human brain. It makes us really good at certain kinds of things, like recognizing danger or coming to conclusions where swift action is required. It's also what makes us bad at certain other kinds of thinking, like statistical thinking, because our brains are lazy and we tend to fall back on those categorizations, which often mislead us into making an intuitive but incorrect choice.

I think the lists and categories are people's way of sorting out a lot of information so they can act on it. Kanheman basically says it's useless trying to be rid of categorization, it just isn't going to happen. It's what humans do. I agree, one can take it too far and get too caught up in categorizing or listing. But there are definitely some uses for lists and categories that are helpful, and probably at some level everyone does these things, sometimes perhaps without even recognizing they are doing it.

I loaned the book to my father-in-law or I'd post a couple of passages from Thinking, Fast and Slow that speak to this issue. It's a really good book for those interested in that kind of stuff, I recommend it.

Bill

Good post. I was mainly referring to stuff that isn't what I'd consider all that important, like music, movies, art etc. Yes, music is important but it's not about life and death is what I mean. For example, I really would prefer to have all my CDs sorted in ascending, alphabetical order (not by genre, or year of release), but because I don't have room to store them the way I'd like to, I just have them in boxes with the spine up so I can at least see the titles. I've given up on keeping them in order. It's too much work for something that isn't that important. I'll spend just as much time sorting them as I would just scanning the boxes for what I want.