Prog-The 100 Greatest Artists of all Time

[Jacob Holm-Lupo]

Yes, I realize now that this list was compiled from readers' votes, and that changes the whole thing of course. Had I checked properly I would have taken it somewhat less seriously. Sometimes it's a relief to be wrong.

[miamiscot]

I love both Magma and Transatlantic. Apparently that's kind of rare.

[moecurlythanu]

Yes, I realize now that this list was compiled from readers' votes, and that changes the whole thing of course. Had I checked properly I would have taken it somewhat less seriously. Sometimes it's a relief to be wrong.

And yet the points you made were quite good, applied in a general sense.

[Jacob Holm-Lupo]

And yet the points you made were quite good, applied in a general sense.

Thanks. I do believe that there are two perspectives you can take on music - the taste perspective and the more, shall we say intersubjective perspective. I don't think there are any absolute truths when it comes to judging the quality of music, but I do think there are certain parameters that can be gauged to judge the significance of a certain band or a piece of music. While you can like or not like Magma (I like them) or Zappa (I'm not crazy about him), you can't deny their huge sphere of influence, their innovations or their prominent place in rock history.

[Patelena396]

It also scares me that some here think that being a *cult band* should not qualify for a good position on the list. Since when did prog fans dismiss cult bands?? Prog is a CULT GENRE, for chrissakes.

For the record, I was not dismissing Magma for being a cult band. I thought I explained that in my post, but perhaps not as clearly as I believed I had. The point being, as I think you now know, is that this is a list compiled from a poll of PROG magazine readers. With that in mind, as with any poll, the chips will fall where they may. There is nothing really authorative about this or any of these types of polls. I never understand why some people take them so seriously. Magma's presence in the middle of this particular list doesn't surprise me. I am sure that they would rate higher in a different poll depending on the publication and the tastes of the people taking the poll. In my opinion and with any due respect, some of the reactions to these polls expose just how pompous some prog fans can be. Obviously, music is important to all of us or we wouldn't be here. For goodness sakes though, understand that there are significantly divided genres and tastes under the umbrella of prog. I have found over time that these different genres (and the fans of each) rarely meet. A look at the recent PE thread on the Top albums of 2015 is verification of that. The prog genre is vast and there is a pretty clear dividing line to be seen here on PE. What side of that line you fall under shouldn't matter. Like these polls, it's all just opinion and people's tastes shouldn't be disparaged. Though we are all talking about "prog" here, what falls under the umbrella of prog is so complex and different that in many ways, we are all not really listening to and enjoying the same types of music. Though it all may be "progressive", IMO it is sometimes akin to fans of country music talking to (or debating with) fans of opera. That comparison may be a little extreme with the subject of Magma at hand, but overall, considering some of the current and legacy responses to these PROG magazine types of polls on PE, I think the analogy makes some sense.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

To be fair, the list is in a magazine that has done a number of similar lists and makes zero pretensions to being completely authoritative or the final say in anything. Critics in this thread are taking this list more seriously than the people who wrote it.

Henry

indeed, this appears to be a case of "consider the source"

if an Avant Prog leaning magazine sponsored a 'greatest Prog bands of all time' one would get vastly different results than this Pop Prog/LCD stuff

[bob_32_116]

I'm worried about the new vocalist for them. Tough act to follow. I didn't like the sample I heard much.

You're saying, better the diablo you know?

[Baribrotzer]

Magma were a band whose reputation lay fundamentally in their role as transcendent creators of a complete musical idiom which influenced a magnificently wide array of artists WAY beyond the limiting constraints of "prog" or "prog circles", far beyond the 70s and even beyond the strands of rock music as such...

And in support of this:

Their recent US tour consisted mostly of full and sold-out houses. Name me one other prog band, even borderline-prog band, with almost zero presence in the States, who can do that. Especially in places like Portland, OR - a city heavy on indie rock, on hipster folk, on roots-rock, and not a "prog town" in any way. Nine-tenths of those people who filled the Aladdin Theater were indie-rock musicians come to see the legend. Now some of the appeal to them may have been the idea of Magma, may be Vander's considerable mojo as one of the greatest living uncompromising musical eccentrics. But some of it was the music. And I'd add that Magma's music, though written by a self-taught composer and built mostly from roots in rock and in modal jazz, represents a sort of parallel invention of classical Minimalism, and can stand right alongside quite a lot of it in artistic quality.

[bob_32_116]

^^ Aah, well if they are playing to sold-out houses, that must mean they have sold out and gone commercial, pandering to the lowest common denominator.

[Bucka001]

^ except that their sold out "houses" are more like one room studio apartments compared to Genesis or Yes' huge mansions ;-)

[bob_32_116]

"I tried to get tickets to the Magma concert, but I couldn't because both seats were already taken."

[Adm.Kirk]

The two that I find to be missing are Trettioariga Kriget and Banco.

Bill

[Baribrotzer]

The Aladdin is, in fact, about a 700-seater, and is usually home to artists like Richard Thompson, John Mayall, the Hawaiian slack-key guitar masters, John Prine, and so forth. Plus a few of the older jazz greats, but it's mostly rootsy folk of the sort its fans, who congratulate themselves upon their good taste even more than any prog fan, describe as "real-deal music".

[Rufus]

Genesis where considered a 'cult' band during the PG era, they where nowhere near ELP and YES in the popularity stakes but their standing in prog in immeasurable!

[zombywoof]

The Aladdin is, in fact, about a 700-seater, and is usually home to artists like Richard Thompson, John Mayall, the Hawaiian slack-key guitar masters, John Prine, and so forth. Plus a few of the older jazz greats, but it's mostly rootsy folk of the sort its fans, who congratulate themselves upon their good taste even more than any prog fan, describe as "real-deal music".

Oh but Richard Thompson is pretty 'real deal' if you ask me!


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[Baribrotzer]

Oh but Richard Thompson is pretty 'real deal' if you ask me!

I'm not saying he isn't. Or, that any of them aren't. But that phrase contains an implication that only "authentic" folk, or roots, or singer-songwriter music are the "real deal". Now if you see music as a choice between true folk traditions on the one hand, and false lowest-common-denominator commercial product on the other, that's probably true. But that isn't at all the case, in my opinion - there's a lot more music than just those two kinds, and shoehorning everything into one or the other does almost all of it a disservice and becomes an exercise in self-righteous snobbery. An artist can be genuine by being true to a tradition, but he can also be genuine by being true to himself, whether the result fits neatly into a recognized tradition or not. Of which Vander & Co. are an excellent example.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Highly recommended genre!

[Steve F.]

Thanks, Scissor Man. Providing a 'wiki' link didn't really answer my question at all. When I said 'comment' - I meant, on their artistic quality (which you did).

Re: Plastic People of the Universe

They and their KGB 'minder' stayed at my house once. Now that's artistic quality.

[zombywoof]

I'm not saying he isn't. Or, that any of them aren't. But that phrase contains an implication that only "authentic" folk, or roots, or singer-songwriter music are the "real deal". Now if you see music as a choice between true folk traditions on the one hand, and false lowest-common-denominator commercial product on the other, that's probably true. But that isn't at all the case, in my opinion - there's a lot more music than just those two kinds, and shoehorning everything into one or the other does almost all of it a disservice and becomes an exercise in self-righteous snobbery. An artist can be genuine by being true to a tradition, but he can also be genuine by being true to himself, whether the result fits neatly into a recognized tradition or not. Of which Vander & Co. are an excellent example.

Except true 'folk' tradition and Richard Thompson have almost nothing in common! I've always thought of him as a progressive artist in his own way. Mirror Blue, for instance, is an exceptional progressive work in terms of songwriting, production, and arrangement. In that case, I'd argue that Thompson is true only to himself - as his career (particularly in the 80's and 90's) has been anything but traditional.

[Reid]

Can anyone comment on Plastic People of the Universe? That name is intriguing!

I bought a 2 disc compilation, and it was a major disappointment. They are not accomplished musicians. In fact, they are not even good musicians. A little green rosetta...

[zombywoof]

I bought a 2 disc compilation, and it was a major disappointment. They are not accomplished musicians. In fact, they are not even good musicians. A little green rosetta...

But how are the ideas, man? The ideas?

[Reid]

But how are the ideas, man? The ideas?

Fairly rudimentary. They do have some low-fi, garage rock charm, but they are not exactly Henry Cow or the Magic Band.

[Baribrotzer]

It's a sort of crude Velvet-ish psych, with long jamming sections in each song - or at least that's what they were like live when I saw them a number of years ago. Their lyrics, though, might have had more going on: not speaking the language, I couldn't tell, but I remember the sax player introducing one song in his heavy accent with, "Thisss song eeesss about somevone who eess ver-r-ry constipated, and tr-r-r-rying to passss a Gr-r-r-reat Stone." Which could have meant quite a bit more behind the Iron Curtain than the juvenile Zappa humor it initially seems like. Badly dated and not terribly good music, but important for what it was historically: They're one of the few rock bands that actually made it into the straight-up history books, and you can never take that away from them.

[Steve F.]

But how are the ideas, man? The ideas?

IMO, quite good

[Steve F.]

I bought a 2 disc compilation, and it was a major disappointment. They are not accomplished musicians. In fact, they are not even good musicians. A little green rosetta...

You can NOT take the PPU out of their context (operating secretly and illegally with the ENTIRE weight of the state against them, for no reason OTHER THAN they wanted to be musicians and they failed their audition to 'become' musicians by the rules set by the state, and so they chose to ignore those rules) and judge them fairly or truly understand them or their bravery and strength.

IMO.