Billy Sherwood goal re new Yes music

[Paulrus]

http://www.theuncool.com/journalism/rs136-yes/

THIS was interesting...

It is only after a long pause that Chris agrees to expand on his statement made to Melody Maker that King Crimson mastermind Robert Fripp had “stolen” drummer Bill Bruford from Yes.

“I think Fripp stole Bill’s imagination, one can say that much. Or at least he entreated Bill enough to leave us.”

“He took Bill on a fantasy,” adds Nicki [Squire].

“It was friendly persuasion . . .he played upon Bill’s dreams, I think,” says Chris. “Bill always wanted to be involved in a kind of jazzy thing, but I think Bob Fripp launched him into it prematurely. Bill is a young drummer and he could have waited a few more years before really getting involved in any heavy music. You see, that’s the problem with Bill. He really wanted to get places fast. He rushed into it, I feel, with his eyes a little bit closed. Maybe now he’s finding out the consequences.”

[zeprogmeister]

H&E was a real letdown with slow old fart music. They'd have to do something special to get my attention. I'm not sure if they have it in them. Maybe they need to bring in Horn again as a writing collaborator.

[bondegezou]

Rick was just barely feeling like he was starting to fit in somewhat, but this was only right before Tales happened, and we all know how he felt about that. Strange to think what a short time he was in the band the first time.

Wakeman has only ever been in the band for relatively short times. Geoff Downes now, since re-joining for Fly from Here, has been in the band for longer than any stint Wakeman's done.

Henry

[Adm.Kirk]

And hasn't Kaye played more live shows than any other Yes keyboard player?

In regards to H & E, I really like the album. I've enjoyed it more than FFH. I realize it's no CttE or 90125. One thing Yes has always had, no matter who is in the band, are hooks. I think this is part of the reason Yes has been such a beloved group. They can write a 20 minute piece that goes and does all sorts of things but there are always interesting musical hooks along the way. Fly From Here, Close to the Edge, Revealing Science of God, Endless Dream and any Yes epic really, are all 15 minutes plus and they all have great musical hooks that connect with most listeners on some emotional level. H & E, while not having a big epic, has tons of these little musical hooks. Yes, it's a quieter album and I think it would have benefited from having something that was more "in your face" but, and I have said this before, the lyrical content and overall feel of the record lead me to believe that the band knew what was happening to Squire physically and that informed the album. After Squire's passing I sat down and read the lyrics while listening to the album and so much of what was written seemed to me to be about, at least to some degree, Squire and what he was going through which just made me like the album even more. It's a poignant record for me.

H & E is not a perfect album, but I think it, along with OYE gets unfairly maligned.

Bill

[gearHed289]

I'd like to see Yes write songs about fresh fruit, coziness, owls, and dreamy gazes through frosted windows. Perhaps a number about a magic journey into a land of talking cats & boldly colored grasses. Orange colored bologna sandwiches & chilled green juices. That would be awesome.

Well, yeah, but only Rabin, Wakeman and Anderson (for the bologna part) could pull that off.

Oh god, just please NO. Without Squire it's dead. Heck, even with him Yes were pretty much exhausted as a creative force judging by the dismal effort that was Heaven and Earth. Just keep milking the nostalgia circuit if you must, but PLEASE stop tarnishing that golden legacy with increasingly dire studio albums.

That's some solid stuff there guys. LOL! I hate to say it after years of rolling my eyes at the "No Jon = no Yes" camp, but... No Chris = no Yes for me. Regardless of how many writing credits he had or didn't have, he was always the heart of the band for me. And besides that, no Jon AND no Chris? Forget it. Just my feelings.

[JJ88]

Wakeman has only ever been in the band for relatively short times. Geoff Downes now, since re-joining for Fly from Here, has been in the band for longer than any stint Wakeman's done.

Henry

You have said this before, but Wakeman has been on more albums- certainly more classic ones!

[bRETT]

You have said this before, but Wakeman has been on more albums- certainly more classic ones!

Kaye and Wakeman are tied for studio albums though (if you count Keystudio as one album, assume that Kaye was on all three YesWest albums, and that neither of 'em were on Union).

[JJ88]

^Kaye has also played on several classic Yes albums.

[bondegezou]

And hasn't Kaye played more live shows than any other Yes keyboard player?

Yes. However it's close and, given the earlier shows were usually shorter, it's possible that Wakeman has clocked more cumulative time playing live with the band than Kaye.

H & E, while not having a big epic, has tons of these little musical hooks. [...] the lyrical content and overall feel of the record lead me to believe that the band knew what was happening to Squire physically and that informed the album. After Squire's passing I sat down and read the lyrics while listening to the album and so much of what was written seemed to me to be about, at least to some degree, Squire and what he was going through which just made me like the album even more. It's a poignant record for me.

I think the lyrics of H&E are about ageing and looking back on one's life. They thus then apply to Squire's passing, but absolutely nothing suggests that the band at the time had any idea of Squire's impending fate. Unless everyone is lying for no apparent purpose.

Henry

[Kcrimso]

Yes. However it's close and, given the earlier shows were usually shorter, it's possible that Wakeman has clocked more cumulative time playing live with the band than Kaye.

Wakeman at least has played more notes than Kaye!

[yamishogun]

I think the lyrics of H&E are about ageing and looking back on one's life. They thus then apply to Squire's passing, but absolutely nothing suggests that the band at the time had any idea of Squire's impending fate. Unless everyone is lying for no apparent purpose.

Henry

He was diagnosed with AEL, which wiki says has a median prognosis of just 8 months, so very unlikely that Squire knew until the album was out and they were touring.

[Adm.Kirk]

Yes. However it's close and, given the earlier shows were usually shorter, it's possible that Wakeman has clocked more cumulative time playing live with the band than Kaye.



I think the lyrics of H&E are about ageing and looking back on one's life. They thus then apply to Squire's passing, but absolutely nothing suggests that the band at the time had any idea of Squire's impending fate. Unless everyone is lying for no apparent purpose.

Henry

I guess that settles that! Still, those lyrics to take on much more meaning in light of what happened with Squire. Thanks, Henry.

Bill

[happytheman]

THIS was interesting...

Agree.. enjoyed reading this..

[kid_runningfox]

Yes has made weaker albums in the past, and then returned to make stronger albums. Why presume that one weak album means they're "exhausted as a creative force" rather than that there were specific problems with that album? I know plenty of acts that have made lesser albums than come back later with better albums: King Crimson, Asia, Gong, Steve Hackett, Rush, Marillion...

I mean, if you thought the last, say, 5 albums were all terrible, then fair enough. When you speak of "increasingly dire studio albums", do you literally mean that H&E was more dire than Fly from Here, which was more dire than Magnification, which was more dire than The Ladder, which was more dire than Open Your Eyes? Because that doesn't appear to be a majority view.

Henry

Actually, I would say that every one of those albums is pretty dismal, but H & E set new lows. AFAIC, Yes haven't made a truly great album since 90125. As to the other bands you mention; yes it's largely true that each has seen at one time or another a return to form after recording less-than-stellar efforts. None however has gone as long as Yes has without showing at least some indication that the spark is still there. Also, whether a bad album is the result of in-band feuding or just indicative of a band run its course is immaterial if the end result is dire, imho, and in Yes's case I wonder just how much one cause fuels the other.

[bondegezou]

Actually, I would say that every one of those albums is pretty dismal, but H & E set new lows. AFAIC, Yes haven't made a truly great album since 90125. As to the other bands you mention; yes it's largely true that each has seen at one time or another a return to form after recording less-than-stellar efforts. None however has gone as long as Yes has without showing at least some indication that the spark is still there.

Fair enough. Then, indeed, I think it very unlikely that anything Yes do now is going to be to your liking. Indeed, I wonder why you bother even looking in a thread about a band's new music if you think their new music has been dismal for 18 years, and they've not done anything great for over three decades. I used to love Rush and then they went in a direction I didn't like, and it took me merely a decade to stop buying their albums.

Henry

[kid_runningfox]

Fair enough. Then, indeed, I think it very unlikely that anything Yes do now is going to be to your liking. Indeed, I wonder why you bother even looking in a thread about a band's new music if you think their new music has been dismal for 18 years, and they've not done anything great for over three decades. I used to love Rush and then they went in a direction I didn't like, and it took me merely a decade to stop buying their albums.

Henry

Because I'm curious, and I have genuinely hoped for years that things with Yes's studio output would pick up, only to be sadly consistently disappointed. I did indeed finally give up with H&E, which I have not and will not buy. That said, all of the above is said with sorrow rather than anger, but I do genuinely wish Yes would give it up, and have done for some time. In that sense, Squire's passing seemed like the ideal time to close the book and do something else, but it seems that this will not be the case. It is, of course, their career, but it's sad to see a band whose definitive work I absolutely love slowly and remorselessly grind that legacy into the dust.

[yamishogun]

It is, of course, their career, but it's sad to see a band whose definitive work I absolutely love slowly and remorselessly grind that legacy into the dust.

And I disagree to an extent since like post 90125 Yes. But apart from Talk, I didn't see why I had to listen to a full album where maybe 20 minutes (Magnification) or 30 minutes (The Ladder) was enough.

Yes didn't grind its legacy into the dust. It fell off a cliff with Heaven and Earth (No way I'd buy this one)

[ThomasKDye]

I do genuinely wish Yes would give it up, and have done for some time.

WHY???!!!

If you don't like new Yes, don't buy their albums. There's no reason to wish Yes would stop other than the fact that their story doesn't fit your defined parameters. It's so not anyone's effing business what a band does.

I'm off the Marillion bus for good, but I'm not saying they should hang it up and stop. That's just flat out douchey and the mark of an asshole.

This so reminds me of the people who wished Bob Dylan would have died in his motorcycle accident so he could have been a "legend."

[kid_runningfox]

I'm off the Marillion bus for good, but I'm not saying they should hang it up and stop. That's just flat out douchey and the mark of an asshole.

It's called an opinion, and has no bearing on anybody's reality but my own. And as an opinion I have every right to hold it, as you have your own contrary view.

Jesus, when I see posts like the one above I remember why I stopped posting here for so long...

[Patelena396]

It's called an opinion, and has no bearing on anybody's reality but my own. And as an opinion I have every right to hold it, as you have your own contrary view.

Jesus, when I see posts like the one above I remember why I stopped posting here for so long...

I can relate to this and took a similar stance about not posting a few months back. I think the secret is to enter certain threads with a significant amount of caution. Particularly Yes threads, with Neal Morse threads running a close second. For whatever reason, those threads tend to go the most sideways. As for the subject at hand, I personally would never say that I am DONE with a band that I am a fan of. I was not particularly fond of 'Heaven & Earth and I too have been somewhat disappointed with the last few Marillion albums. That said, I would never close the door completely on a band or musician who acquired my admiration previously. Mainly, because they have already proven many times that they are capable of entertaining me. I like bands that switch things up and I don't expect to always be over the top about everything that they record. I look forward to whatever this current incarnation of Yes comes up with in the studio. I am sure it will be different than 'Heaven and Earth' and my hope is that it will be great. I would never ignore It though.

[Mstove]

It's called an opinion, and has no bearing on anybody's reality but my own. And as an opinion I have every right to hold it, as you have your own contrary view.

Jesus, when I see posts like the one above I remember why I stopped posting here for so long...

It doesn't explain why you think they should give it up and stop, though. It is completely reasonable to not like what someone has been producing and not want to ever purchase their work in the future. But, why should that mean they should stop? I get that is your opinion, but my question is why? Personally, I find it unlikely that anything new from them will do much, if anything, for me and unless I hear it first probably won't buy it. But, if they do something new it won't harm me in any way, so I don't care if they put something out.

Not aimed just at you - but I really don't understand wanting someone to stop putting out music just because one doesn't like it. It isn't forced on anyone (well, some pop music is if you leave the house, but that is a different thing).

[Sean]

I think those that say "stop! no more!" probably just feel things have slipped so far that there is no turning the boat around at this point and it's better to just call it a day than continue to put out albums they consider sub par. Again, it's down to those "personal" opinions.... Asking the band to just stop though is unlikely regardless the context. They will call it a day when they feel like it and it won't be prompted by any fan's comment.

[Sunlight Caller]

God knows I love Yes, their music and machinations have intrigued me since I fist encountered CTTE as a 70's teenager. I'm with the Kid here, and feel that their studio output has run its course, and to me they are quite simply one key member too few to count as the Yes I knew and loved.

That said they will probably carry on, as is their entitlement, and because of allegiance to the logo I'm sure I'll end up wondering and will pick up whatever they put out. I guess while people will pay then they will be encouraged to play.

I still enjoy the live gigs, they give me and my mates a night out and a connection to those halcyon days of our youth. I'm not sure what I'll feel about them without Squire when they next reach our shores though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Magic Mountain]

I think those that say "stop! no more!" probably just feel things have slipped so far that there is no turning the boat around at this point and it's better to just call it a day than continue to put out albums they consider sub par. Again, it's down to those "personal" opinions.... Asking the band to just stop though is unlikely regardless the context. They will call it a day when they feel like it and it won't be prompted by any fan's comment.

Don't forget the embarrassing situations they placed themselves in over the last several years, such as their appearance on the Colbert show, the under rehearsed shows with Styx, the playing of "We are only aliens from the future", and slow tempos of classic songs just to name a few off the top of my head. It just shows their lack of professionalism and commitment. So people think if they're not committed and acting professional, then why continue playing?

[ThomasKDye]

Imagine if it were reversed. If someone told you to stop making your living because you were "embarrassing" them. That's all I'm saying.

"I wish them well but I'm probably done buying their albums" is much more classy than "Why don't they stop?"