The NHL Discussion Thread

[rottersclub]

Bad news out of Ottawa today - Bryan Murray has been diagnosed with cancer. Not details yet, but having just lost his nephew Tim to the Sabres, there is going to be a real vacuum at the top in Ottawa. The two assistant GMs are not IMO ready for the GM's office.

You heard it here first - don't be utterly surprised if Eugene Melnyk sells the Senators to a syndicate of local owners in the next little while - maybe to the same guys who own the CFL and NASL teams in town. Melnyk did a fabulous job of turning more than a billion dollars into a couple of hundred million. He's losing money on the team and the building so he may want to stop the bleeding soon.

[Yves]

Subban's fate is now in the hands of the arbitrator. I didn't think it would come to this but the Habs are sticking to their guns. Makes you wonder if Subban's future will be in the Bleu-Blanc-Rouge long term.

[ForeverAutumn]

Subban's fate is now in the hands of the arbitrator. I didn't think it would come to this but the Habs are sticking to their guns. Makes you wonder if Subban's future will be in the Bleu-Blanc-Rouge long term.

I read an article earlier this week where he was asked whether he would ever want to come back to his hometown and play for the Leafs. His response was that he loves playing for the Habs, thinks they're building a great team, and would be happy to stay there for his whole career. I guess we'll see now whether he really meant it.

What do you love more P.K., the team or the money?

[Klonk]

I hope he stays. Keep all the diving up there and in Pitt.

Seriously though, he's a great player (offensively at least) and it would be a shame if Montreal lost him.

[Birdy]

P.K. Subban just signed with the Habs for 8 years at a mere $9 million/year. As a Hab fan I'm happy he's signed but the price is frickin' ridiculous!!

[Yves]

Huzzah for his agent! People don't realize that the player himself doesn't do anything his agent tells him not to do. Agents are like Wormtongue whispering in their client's ear... I'm glad P.K. will play the bulk of his career here. Of course you know that 4 years from now he'll want to renegotiate his deal!

[Brad to the Bone]

P.K. Subban just signed with the Habs for 8 years at a mere $9 million/year. As a Hab fan I'm happy he's signed but the price is frickin' ridiculous!!

The new contract makes Subban the 3rd highest paid player in the league after Ovechkin and Malkin!

[Klonk]

Wow...good for him! I guess. Keep yer head on a swivel next season, buddy!

[oilersfan]

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/lh...anadiens-meth/

Could one of the effects be a willingness to overpay blueliners?

[Reginod]

So, mebbe it's a bit early, but who's ready for the PEFHL this year? As pitiful as the Canes are likely to be, fantasy may be all I got . . . . . . . . .

[TheLoony]

Today the NHL announced plans to expand into four cities.

I think they are bonkers. They should contract or move Florida, Phoenix, NYI. But they want more television money and gate revenues. Las Vegas couldn't support a IHL team in the '90's, why would they support a team now? I kinda know Las Vegas, having grown up here, and I'd honestly say it's not a good idea, no matter how much I would love to have a team here. I'd go so far as to say it's a bad idea to put a team here.

Most people would say Toronto doesn't have a team now, so why two? Seattle and Quebec City I don't see as much of a problem. Contract one team and move the other two, that makes more sense. Then think of new teams in a few years, if this works out.

What say you all?

[ForeverAutumn]

The league is denying the report.

As for Toronto, while you could say that we don't have a team...each and every single game is sold out. Just try to get tickets for a Leafs game without going to scalpers or knowing someone with season tickets and let me know how you fare. Regardless of going almost 50 years without a Stanley Cup and only making the playoffs once in the last nine seasons (and it was only a half season to boot), Toronto bleeds blue.

Not only does every game sell out, the seats that we pay $50 each for Lacrosse, sell for $275 for the Leafs. And still, they sell out.

There are enough hockey fans here to support a second team. There are enough disgruntled Leafs fans to welcome a second team. The pressure on the Leafs to perform better than the new team could only make the club better and create a stunning rivalry. I think Toronto, or a city within driving distance to Toronto, would be a profitable choice. And what does the league care about? Profits.

I agree that a team in Las Vegas would be a dumb move. We were in Vegas in April and looking for the Playoff lines. When we asked for the hockey sheets we were greeted with blank stares and responses asking "ice hockey"? The people we spoke to there appear to have no clue about hockey.

[Yves]

It's about collecting the franchise fees and then hoping the owers in these new cities keep pumping money into their teams. I think they'll just be diluting a product that is already a watered-down version of the hockey I grew up watching..

[Scott Bails]

Horrible, horrible idea. Bettman at his best.

[ForeverAutumn]

It's about collecting the franchise fees and then hoping the owers in these new cities keep pumping money into their teams. I think they'll just be diluting a product that is already a watered-down version of the hockey I grew up watching..

Yeah. Apparently the league doesn't have to share the expansion fees with the players, so there's huge profit to be shared among the owners.

[Scott Bails]

Yeah. Apparently the league doesn't have to share the expansion fees with the players, so there's huge profit to be shared among the owners.

No, franchise fees are usually only shared by owners - like revenue sharing.

[ForeverAutumn]

BAHAHAHA! This is real. Go to http://mapleleafs.nhl.com for proof.

10612948_709955382409674_761687764068679045_n.jpg

[Klonk]

The league is denying the report.

As for Toronto, while you could say that we don't have a team...each and every single game is sold out. Just try to get tickets for a Leafs game without going to scalpers or knowing someone with season tickets and let me know how you fare. Regardless of going almost 50 years without a Stanley Cup and only making the playoffs once in the last nine seasons (and it was only a half season to boot), Toronto bleeds blue.

Not only does every game sell out, the seats that we pay $50 each for Lacrosse, sell for $275 for the Leafs. And still, they sell out.

There are enough hockey fans here to support a second team. There are enough disgruntled Leafs fans to welcome a second team. The pressure on the Leafs to perform better than the new team could only make the club better and create a stunning rivalry. I think Toronto, or a city within driving distance to Toronto, would be a profitable choice. And what does the league care about? Profits.

I agree, Esther. Look at the rivalry between NYR and NYI? It's still one of the best in the game. Toronto would have no prob embracing another team and I think it would make for good hockey.

Quebec City would probably work out the same way.

Seattle I even think would fill seats no prob though there is some doubts.

Vegas is just fuckin' stupid.

[Klonk]

It's about collecting the franchise fees and then hoping the owers in these new cities keep pumping money into their teams. I think they'll just be diluting a product that is already a watered-down version of the hockey I grew up watching..

...but I also agree with this. The game has been watered down dramatically with the expansion that's already taken place. 4th line plugs will magically be 1st line go-to's.

So, with the exception of Las Vegas (Seattle I'm on the fence with), I think it may work.

[Scott Bails]

...but I also agree with this. The game has been watered down dramatically with the expansion that's already taken place. 4th line plugs will magically be 1st line go-to's.

So, with the exception of Las Vegas (Seattle I'm on the fence with), I think it may work.

So, the answer is not expansion, but to move teams that aren't successful in their current cities.

[Klonk]

I'd climb aboard that train.

[TheLoony]

So, the answer is not expansion, but to move teams that aren't successful in their current cities.

The way I see it, get NYI a arena that's not dilapidated(to say the least) as that market can stand multiple teams, move Florida and Phoenix as those are the two big problem teams. Forget about Vegas and if they want, expand just one team, maybe a new one in Toronto with Seattle and Quebec getting the other two.

I know that's too logical, as the need for more money outweighs everything. Miami and Phoenix haven't worked and aren't going to. Miami just sucks for sports all around and Phoenix had to be run by the league at one point so why have teams there that others would like to have and would actually support?

Does expansion really equate to diluting the sport? There are a few billion people on this planet, so they tell me, so why is it so hard to find a few hundred that can play a game well? I hear this about other sports so it's not just a hockey specific question, just mentioned earlier and something I've always wondered about. I can see how expansion teams suck and could help the argument but that alone seems misleading. I don't know, hence why I'm asking.

[Yves]

I heard the Canes were a team that could be moved, more so than the Panthers...

The NHL doesn't care where a team is, it only cares about how many zeroes there are in the bank account of the potential owner. I like the idea of Seattle and of course Québec is a no-brainer, pending a new arena. I'm not sold on another team in the Toronto area though. As Esther pointed out (in trying to make the opposite argument): Toronto bleeds blue. I don't see another team getting any sort of support in that area. I know they talked about Hamilton, and there's an existing rivalry due to the CFL, but I'm not sure a team can make a go of it there. It would be like placing a team in Laval (just north of Montreal and with a population around 1 million people) and expecting Habs fans to switch allegiances. The Original 6 have been around too long to expect a fragmentation in any of their markets.

[Reginod]

Speaking as a fan of "one of those teams that ought not to be there" I can say that it's tough going in the non-traditional markets mainly because of the difficulty in putting a consistently playoff-worthy team on the ice. Loony, you mention Miami and Phoenix, but why not Tampa? Probably because Tampa is the only one out of all the non-traditional franchises that actually seems to have its shit together on the ice year in and year out.

In these markets where the people didn't grow up with hockey, the visibility of the game needs to remain very high, and obviously the best way to do that is to win. The only way to develop more of a hockey culture is to win. There is no widespread hockey culture in these markets to help through the lean years, the way there is in Winnipeg and Edmonton and Calgary and Ottawa. I wonder sometimes if lack of such a culture internally hurts teams like the Canes and Panthers and Yotes . . . . . . . . "Who cares if we win and make it to the playoffs, when sun and beaches and babes and the golf course are just around the corner? Nobody here in Raleigh or Miami or Phoenix really cares, anyway, do they? Yaahhh, we'll get 'em next year eh?"

I think it was Dan Patrick that was (jokingly?) mentioning on the radio that the Canes should move to Las Vegas . . . . . . . but if they can't work it out in Raleigh I doubt they'd do any better in the desert. Sad thing is, the Canes actually do have a pretty solid core of serious hockey-loving fans, but the overall support seemingly has eroded a little bit every year since they made it to the Eastern finals in 09. And they seem pretty much poised to tank on the 2014-15 season already. I dunno exactly what Ron Francis' plan is, but in the short term it hasn't involved any high-profile signings. And Peter Karmanos just seems delusional.

So is it a good idea to create more such teams in more such markets? Ask Steve Yzerman. On the surface, when you have 3 teams like the Canes, Panthers and Yotes for every one Tampa (and even they have had their inconsistencies), the math doesn't look very good.

[ForeverAutumn]

I'm not sold on another team in the Toronto area though. As Esther pointed out (in trying to make the opposite argument): Toronto bleeds blue. I don't see another team getting any sort of support in that area.

I'm not saying that it would be easy, but I think it could work. Several things would have to happen IMO.

1. It has to be a Toronto team as in have Toronto in the name. Marketing is everything.
2. The stadium has to be accessible by public transit. Hamilton would not work, too far and not accessible. Markham would work. It is directly North of Toronto (I actually live in Markham, 1.5KM outside of Toronto city limits) and accessible by public transit. Mississauga would also work.
3. The ownership has to be willing to invest in both players and management who can WIN. Toronto bleeds blue, but they are also sick and tired of supporting a losing team. Believe me when I tell you that this is a frustrated city.
4. Tickets have to be available. Limit the number of corporate season ticket holders so that the real fans can buy tickets. If you go into the ACC for a Leafs game, 1/2 of the people in the lower bowl are in dark suits. The place is filled with bankers, not fans. It's one of the things that makes it so difficult to get tickets.
5. Win.
6. Win.
7. Win.

If you win, they will come.

I think the new team should hire me to build their marketing plan.