Phil Collins bigs up VdGG

[Bucka001]

http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/musik/p...a-1060111.html

Well, he talks about a lot more than just VdGG, but...

Phil Collins is coming out of retirement and was recently interviewed by the German mag "Der Spiegel". He spoke a bit about the prog bands of the '70s and, after copping to liking the very early Yes stuff, and only the very early stuff, sort of slagged Pink Floyd and bigged up VdGG:

"I wasn't too keen on Pink Floyd. Van der Graaf Generator were, in fact, the better Genesis. They were the best anyway, much darker than all the other bands of that era."

I have to say that Phil was extremely cool when I met him in '07 and it doesn't surprise me to hear him bigging up the Graafs. He'd helped with The Book (a VdGG biography written by me and Phil Smart) a few years before. When I heard Genesis would be in town (Chicago) in '07 I arranged with his management to drop off my copy of The Book at their hotel for him to sign (since he's heavily quoted in it, etc). Genesis were in town for 2 or 3 shows and I dropped the book off at the front desk. The next day I went back around 5pm and there were hundreds of people in front of the hotel (obviously word had gotten out that Genesis was staying there; not from me, I promise!!) and several limos were out front to pick up the band; I saw Banks and Rutherford out front signing autographs and walked right by them into the hotel. I went right to the front desk in the empty lobby to ask about getting my book back and, at that point, I saw a little guy all bundled up, looking like a homeless dude, with some big bodyguard, getting off of the elevator. I could tell it was Phil. I walked toward him. "Phil?" said I, as the bodyguard tensed up and PC looked a little concerned. "Hey," I said, "You helped me with my Van der Graaf book, I'm Jim Christopulos." At that point he totally eased up and held out his hand, "Oh, hi mate!" It was great that all the fans were outside and that no one thought to come into the lobby. Phil and I spoke for about ten minutes, he told me that he signed my book and that it should be at the desk up on the second floor, etc. We talked about the old days and VdGG quite a bit. He was friends with all of them, but he told me that he was really close to drummer Guy Evans and that he really missed him. Knowing that I was in touch with the guys, he asked me (made me promise, almost) to let Guy know that he said 'hi'. It seemed like he really missed those days. And then he was out the door. He was reeeaaallly cool with me, but I've read since that he was in great physical pain on that tour and he retired shortly thereafter; I've also read about depression setting in around that time. In retrospect it makes sense. He seemed very low key and sort of half-heartedly resigned to walking out that door (he looked almost scared like he was not looking forward to the gig). It must have really been weird going to play that gig after he lit up talking about the old days and hanging with VdGG in the 70s. At any rate, he signed my book and even drew a cool self-portrait sketch in it for me! So, say what you will, PC is very cool and quite alright by me!

[battema]

That's a pretty cool story...thanks for sharing

[mkeneally]

I just saw your book for the first time last night at the music library in Birmingham across the square from a gig I was doing (and what an astonishing library that is, took my breath away)...I wished I had more time to investigate your book further, but what an achievement that thing is! Thank you for doing it!

[Toothyspook]

Thanks for sharing.

If not being keen on a band is nowadays classed as slagging them off nowadays then we have become a very touchy species over the last few years.

[Bucka001]

If not being keen on a band is nowadays classed as slagging them off nowadays then we have become a very touchy species over the last few years.

Fair enough, the word "slag" does seem a bit much here, but I've read PC interviews where he is harsher toward Pink Floyd and that's probably what influenced my use of that word.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Nice to agree with Phil in certain stuff.

[firth5th]

Phil Collins ruined VdGG.

[JAMOOL]

Phil Collins ruined a VdGG book.

fixed yr post

[flytomars]

fixed yr post

Lmao!

Anyway great story Jim, and I am quite surprised by the comment by Phil as somehow I imagined VDGG was too dark for him.

[Digital_Man]

Bigging up? Must be a British expression.

Anyway, of course he knows who they are. Genesis toured with them in the early days. In fact, Genesis opened up for VDGG at one point which is kind of weird to think of these days because now most people never even heard of VDGG.

[AncientChord]

It seems Phil, in the old days seemed to enjoy the prog stuff, and played, as most here know on many prog albums besides Genesis back in the day. Here we go again, but what will always baffle me is to why he dismissed his musical integrity for the simplicity of pop for the masses? And IMO it was a musical step backwards. I always say, going from art to fart. Phil is a highly talented guy no doubt, but this heart is solid prog, and can never forgive what he, Mike, and Tony did to Genesis. We will always speculate, but was it for money, ego or both? Anyway I wish him well on his next musical ventures. And by the way, I can never see Peter Gabriel singing 80's Genesis. Certainly would be a step backwards for him.

[Digital_Man]

It's called money. How many prog bands didn't turn pop in the late seventies/early eighties? It was either that or starve to death. Which one would you choose?

[AncientChord]

It's called money. How many prog bands didn't turn pop in the late seventies/early eighties? It was either that or starve to death. Which one would you choose?

I hear you, but many prog bands of the 70's didn't do that, and yet they survived. Do you think VDGG got filthy rich? How about King Crimson? Fripp & Co. were ripped off for years, and he didn't, as they say, sell out.

[Digital_Man]

I hear you, but many prog bands of the 70's didn't do that, and yet they survived. Do you think VDGG got filthy rich? How about King Crimson? Fripp & Co. were ripped off for years, and he didn't, as they say, sell out.

Not really a fair comparison imo. King Crimson disbanded for a while in the mid seventies and Fripp went on to play with a host of other artists as a guest performer(too many to name all of them)as well as a producer. As for VDGG they split also and PH had a busy solo career. I suppose I get what you are saying but the reality is many of the lesser known bands supplemented their income in other ways outside of the band. It's called survival. VDGG actually were big enough in some countries to get away with it for a while and while they may not have been filthy rich they played huge arenas in Italy and other parts of Europe(remember Genesis opened for them at one point!). That's pretty much the same thing with KC too.

[AncientChord]

Not really a fair comparison imo. King Crimson disbanded for a while in the mid seventies and Fripp went on to play with a host of other artists as a guest performer(too many to name all of them)as well as a producer. As for VDGG they split also and PH had a busy solo career. I suppose I get what you are saying but the reality is many of the lesser known bands supplemented their income in other ways outside of the band. It's called survival. VDGG actually were big enough in some countries to get away with it for a while and while they may not have been filthy rich they played huge arenas in Italy and other parts of Europe(remember Genesis opened for them at one point!). That's pretty much the same thing with KC too.

Yes I am aware that many prog bands of yesteryear and today must have regular day jobs to survive. Originally you asked which direction I would go. I would certainly go with my music heart, which is prog, and supplement my income in other ways if need be.

[Digital_Man]

Yes I am aware that many prog bands of yesteryear and today must have regular day jobs to survive. Originally you asked which direction I would go. I would certainly go with my music heart, which is prog, and supplement my income in other ways if need be.

Well, that's because you have integrity and value your life's passion over money. I'm not saying that makes you a martyr necessarily but at least no one would call you a sell out. I actually wouldn't even go so far as to call some of these bands sell outs but I can see how many people would. Money gets in the way of artistic freedom sometimes and record companies cared more about promoting something they thought would sell big instead of something that turned out to be(in their opinion)a long shot.

[Progatron]

I've read PC interviews where he is harsher toward Pink Floyd

I remember when he was pissed at Roger Waters for making disparaging remarks about the silly walk in the "I Can't Dance" video. Even wrote him a letter about it!

Anyway, Phil has been complimentary of VDGG before this. No surprise to me, but always nice to be reminded of it. I recall that Gabriel and David Jackson were quite close as well. Rutherford has commented that watching VDGG taught him "how not to construct a live setlist", as in those days they would lump all their light stuff together, and play all the heavy, demanding stuff in a row. Funny to think of now, I would *love* to have seen that Charisma tour.

[AncientChord]

I certainly agree with you here. Digital_Man. And I do respect musicians that keep their musical integrity. I can think of a major rock legend that was also ripped off, but he didn't care. To him it was all about the music and NOTHING else. And I will always love him for it. Jimi Hendrix

If 6 was 9

[2steves]

VDGG are an acquired taste (I personally hate them) I think they sound like Jack Black doing a corny cliche of a prog band in a comedy sketch lol---and were never going to be financially successful---but they made a living outside of the USA. And Phil is out of his mind if he thought they are better than the genius of 70's Genesis.

[trurl]

And by the way, I can never see Peter Gabriel singing 80's Genesis. Certainly would be a step backwards for him.

From singing what, The Barry Williams Show? Sledgehammer?

[AncientChord]

VDGG are an acquired taste (I personally hate them) I think they sound like Jack Black doing a corny cliche of a prog band in a comedy sketch lol---and were never going to be financially successful---but they made a living outside of the USA. And Phil is out of his mind if he thought they are better than the genius of 70's Genesis.

IMO the timeless musicianship and tongue in cheek lyrics of early Genesis far outweighs the efforts of VDGG. I agree that VDGG are an aquired taste, but they were/are a band that leans more towards experimentation. I believe that is why David Jackson is no longer with them. Also, read Peter Hammill's lyrics. They are quite dark, but absolutely brilliant. To me it's his words that fit so beautifully with the voice and bizzare nature of VDGG music.

[AncientChord]

From singing what, The Barry Williams Show? Sledgehammer?

Yeah, I get it. But IMO PG's pop efforts are not quite as pathetic as 80's Genesis. PG is still weird.

[TheLoony]

So there are, at the very least, two things Phil Collins hasn't ruined.

1. Hook

2. Bucka001 memories of meeting him that night.

I should read that book.

[trurl]

Yeah, I get it. But IMO PG's pop efforts are not quite as pathetic as 80's Genesis. PG is still weird.

Actually I mostly agree. Not all 80s Genesis was that bad though but truthfully PG couldn't sing it. His voice has tons of character but it's not conventionally that good and he just wouldn't be able to hit most of those notes. I prefer both to stick to their own stuff.

[Bucka001]

Lots to catch up / comment on here!

I wished I had more time to investigate your book further, but what an achievement that thing is! Thank you for doing it!

I'm glad it's in a library over there (I think there are a few libraries that have it). That book was a lot of fun, the experience of a lifetime; I still hope to do a volume 2. Of course, when we did the first book I didn't have several things that I have now: a full time job, a wife, kids, etc. One thing I did have a lot of back then was time... which I have very little of now!

Anyway, of course he knows who they are. Genesis toured with them in the early days.

All British musicians from the 70s will know who VdGG is. They were modestly successful, toured a heck of a lot in all of the nation's major cities, concert halls, and universities, and were in the music papers all the time. They were very much part of the scene.

can never forgive what he, Mike, and Tony did to Genesis. We will always speculate, but was it for money, ego or both?

At this late date I honestly believe they actually prefer the latter day pop stuff to the 70s prog stuff. Nothing to do with ego or money, just their preference.

And Phil is out of his mind if he thought [VdGG] are better than the genius of 70's Genesis.

Different strokes and all that. I think Phil is spot on ;-) And "genius" is a matter of taste (I'd use it to describe VdGG and not Genesis; you say tomato, I say tomatoe)