Record Cleaning Regimens

[Pr33t]

Should I not use a brush system in cleaning? Does every system touch the surface of the vinyl in some way? Or is this stupid questions?

I have two answers for this, depending on what situation you're talking about (and in my case, they are both yes):

1. If you're cleaning with fluid, you need microfiber brushes to push the liquid around and down into the grooves. This will get rid of a certain amount of junk in there, and is the best first set on most records, especially really dirty ones. I prefer the brushes made by Disc Doctor: http://www.discdoc.com/

2. I use a carbon fiber brush on already clean records to wipe off whatever surface particles get attracted to the record when you pull it out to play. I really like this brush, as it has both carbon fiber brushes to sweep up the particles, and a pad to pick them up off the surface: https://www.amazon.com/Hunt-Carbon-F.../dp/B001A9ST2G

[rcarlberg]

The difference between a truly clean record and one that is not clean is staggering. When clean, I don't get pops and clicks. I do get a great tone and an open soundstage that surpasses CD in many ways. As for new records, you may not need to clean them to remove dust, but if you do the soundstage will open up quite noticeably.

Bob, I get that "pops and clicks" are caused by dust and dirt, I get that enzymatic wet cleaning cleans better than mere dry brushing, I get that vacuuming the record as it is cleaning probably removes more contaminants before they have a chance to dry and settle back into the grooves.

What I DON'T understand is how the soundstage could be affected by cleaning.

Presumably "the soundstage" is a combination of lack of background noise, mixing the instruments wide to the left and right of the stereo spectrum, and recording some instruments with microphones placed quite a ways away from the instruments. It might also be reasonably assumed to have something to do with recording all instruments in stereo, as opposed to recording them monaurally (single channel) and panning them to one spot in the stereo field. A really good soundstage might also require that the instruments be recorded together, at the same time, so they share the same acoustic space and bleed into each other's acoustic spaces (bass rattling the drum snares, vocal mic picking up the horns, etc.)

However your contention that somehow cleaning LPs creates soundstage puzzles me. Can you elaborate please?

[Father Tiresias]

I sold all 2700+ LPs in my collection last November, to a local store that's getting back into selling vinyl. Haven't missed them at all.

Why, then, are you bothering with this thread?

[rcarlberg]

Why, then, are you bothering with this thread?

Because, ummm, I started it (before my collection sold)?

[Fracktured]

On a bit of a side note. What is the best way to clean the needle?

[rcarlberg]

On a bit of a side note. What is the best way to clean the needle?

Absolute best: with an expensive stereo microscope where you can see the stylus in 3D. Most of us never could spend that bread however. I use the Discwasher stylus brush (shown in my initial post), slightly moist, pulled back to front (same direction as the needle moves in the groove) a few times. You have to careful but it seems to work pretty well.

I've also seen recommendations for camel hair fine artists' brushes, with the bristles trimmed to 1/4", but I could never see what the heck I was doing enough to make that work.

[strawberrybrick]

On a bit of a side note. What is the best way to clean the needle?

I use Onzow ZeroDust

[JKL2000]

I thought it was funny.

I just find this whole thread pretty funny. I had no idea anyone went to such great lengths to clean used LPs.

Remember the DiscWasher anti-static guns? I was always skeptical that those did anything.

[JKL2000]

I use the Discwasher stylus brush (shown in my initial post), slightly moist, pulled back to front (same direction as the needle moves in the groove) a few times.

Are you out of your freaking mind?

[rcarlberg]

Are you out of your freaking mind?

Yes. Why do you ask?

Why do you feel you NEED to ask?

[Pr33t]

On a bit of a side note. What is the best way to clean the needle?

I use a combination of both Robert's method and the Onzow ZeroDust. For brushing, I use the Disc Doctor stylus brush and fluid (it's down on the right hand side of the page). I've found both of these to be effective.

Are you out of your freaking mind?

This is the correct method. Nothing crazy about it. You're brushing and applying pressure in the same direction as the suspension on the stylus when you lower it on to the record. If you treat it with care, there is absolutely no problem.

[rcarlberg]

Especially considering the stylus is DIAMOND and the mount is designed to navigate 1500 feet of twisty vinyl canyon at 1 mph, over and over. Them things is pretty stout.

[JKL2000]

Especially considering the stylus is DIAMOND and the mount is designed to navigate 1500 feet of twisty vinyl canyon at 1 mph, over and over. Them things is pretty stout.

I still wouldn't use anything harsher than an angel's bush.

[rcarlberg]

I still wouldn't use anything harsher than an angel's bush.

If you've ever seen one under an electron microscope, you might change your mind.

[strawberrybrick]

Revive! I picked this up from Amazon and made a lazy susan from parts I got at Menards and a small shop vac. Verdict is that I have clean(er) records!

http://www.vinylvac.net/


6183536_1.jpg

[rcarlberg]

Wow. Looks low-tech but possibly very effective -- I mean the standard wet-dry shop vac will suck your nuts off the floor.

[strawberrybrick]

I'll make a video this weekend. It is completely effective.

[Jerjo]

I'm confused now. Will the video be of a record being cleaned or will it involve RC's nuts being sucked off the floor?

[strawberrybrick]

I'm confused now. Will the video be of a record being cleaned or will it involve RC's nuts being sucked off the floor?

LOL! Not the latter....

[simon moon]

So, I've been using a cleaning fluid followed by vacuum cleaning regimen for decades, and really thought it was doing a good job.

But then, I took one of my freshly cleaned records to my local high end shop, and used their ultrasonic cleaning machines (KL Audio) on it. We did a before and after listening test, and the difference was eye (or ear) opening experience! Almost all of the clicks and pops that remained after my cleaning regimen, I just assumed were permanent vinyl defects. After the ultrasonic cleaning, so many more clicks and pops were gone.

But at $4700.00, it was out of my range. There is also the Audio Desk, but at $4000.00, still steep.

After a quick Google search, I discovered this for only $275! -

https://thevinylstack.com/ultrasonic...-cleaning-kit/


All you have to do is order a 6 Liter ultrasonic tank for just over $100 on ebay, and you have a world class ultrasonic record cleaner for 90% less than the other commercially available units. Hell, it is even cheaper than most of the well known vacuum systems on the market, and it is superior.

I've had mine for about a month, and my records, even my oldest ones, have never sounded quieter.

I have nothing to do with this company. I am only an end user.

[rcarlberg]

Questions: what does the ultrasonic tank cost? What's it get filled with? How long does the fluid last before it has to be changed? Presumably the "no-touch" ultrasonic cleaning is IN ADDITION TO a vacuum system?

[Pr33t]

Questions: what does the ultrasonic tank cost? What's it get filled with? How long does the fluid last before it has to be changed?

I can only say from my use of the Audio Desk - I used distilled water (the reservoir takes just over a gallon). They sell a proprietary surfricant solution that they suggest lasts anywhere between 100-150 records cleaned, depending on how dirty they are. It also uses a sponge to filter out large debris as part of the process, so I'm assuming my experience makes the water last a lot longer than if you just had an open bath in a tank.

Presumably the "no-touch" ultrasonic cleaning is IN ADDITION TO a vacuum system?

Absolutely. I'd look at it as a venn diagram - each method will probably get you 60-70% there on its own, but there are specific things each can do where you wouldn't want to rely on only one. Vacuuming uses a much stronger enzymatic solution, and a much more physical touch to get caked in debris loose. The ultrasonic can get deeper into the grooves than the fibers of a brush and really polish off whatever remains.

[Pr33t]

So, I've been using a cleaning fluid followed by vacuum cleaning regimen for decades, and really thought it was doing a good job.

But then, I took one of my freshly cleaned records to my local high end shop, and used their ultrasonic cleaning machines (KL Audio) on it. We did a before and after listening test, and the difference was eye (or ear) opening experience! Almost all of the clicks and pops that remained after my cleaning regimen, I just assumed were permanent vinyl defects. After the ultrasonic cleaning, so many more clicks and pops were gone.

This was my experience after Ken cleaned some stuff on his Audio Desk. I was pretty happy with what vacuum cleaning was doing for me, but knowing what the results of adding ultrasonic to my regimen forced my hand.

All you have to do is order a 6 Liter ultrasonic tank for just over $100 on ebay, and you have a world class ultrasonic record cleaner for 90% less than the other commercially available units. Hell, it is even cheaper than most of the well known vacuum systems on the market, and it is superior.

I've had mine for about a month, and my records, even my oldest ones, have never sounded quieter.

I have nothing to do with this company. I am only an end user.

I've been curious about going this more DIY route myself for a while, but haven't had the opportunity to do it. The Audio Desk is great, but the degree of moving parts and number of things you have to replace from wear has never made it ideal. I've also long wanted to see how this stacked up to the AD in results, as the prospect of being able to do multiple records at the same time is quite appealing.

Does this system really keep the labels watertight? Does the tank you're using have an adjustable frequency? - I'm curious as to whether the commercial tanks are equivalent to what the professionally developed vinyl cleaners in their frequency.

[rcarlberg]

Incidentally, they make an immersion tank cleaner for CDs too, but they can't call it an ultrasonic cleaner 'cos it doesn't go above 20,000Hz.