NBA Basketball Thread

[Facelift]

Well, the series is unwatchable. I get that there's no interest in this series, or the league. I'd like to know what the other two NBA fans think about the current state of this league. I wouldn't say the league has been ruined, but the regular season has become irrelevant.

Regular season has always been irrelevant. The best teams in the NBA right now play great basketball. Watching the game the other night was really something to behold. You've got a team that is a contender for consideration for being the best of all time, and you've one of three or four contenders for the greatest player of all time on the other side. The great team is too much for the historically great player - the addition of Durant made Golden State virtually unbeatable because you can no longer beat GS on a night when Curry and Thompson are missing 3s - Durant gives them an elite go-to-the-rim option that they didn't previously have.

The '80s was made up largely of Celtics and Lakers finals, yet that time is looked upon fondly now as a golden age for the league. Yet, Lebron is better than any player who played in the league in the '80s (with the arguable exception of Jordan, whose '80s Bulls teams nevertheless were mostly non-factors in terms of playoff importance: it took those Bulls until 1989 to make the conference finals), and the 2017 Warriors are every bit as good (and probably better) than any of the '80s Lakers or Celtics champions.

I personally prefer the game-play of the NBA when playing physical defense was allowed (up until Jordan's first retirement, but things didn't really get out of control until the mid-2000s when all hand-checking was banned), but there is also something to be said for teams that play under the current rules at an elite level, like the Warriors.

[Sputnik]

I get that there's no interest in this series, or the league. I'd like to know what the other two NBA fans think about the current state of this league.

I've never been a huge basketball fan. I find all the fouls very arbitrary and not conducive to sustained intense play. That said, I have enjoyed watching some NBA games live and I enjoy the college game, particularly come tournament time.

As a nominal Celtics fan, I probably have less to complain about than other non-Cleveland/Golden State fans. Our prospects look good for the future, but I can't see competing with the likes of these two teams for several seasons yet unless something drastic happens. Historically it seems basketball has always been dominated by dynastic teams; the Celtics, Lakers and Bulls being the big ones, but other teams like Detroit and Miami have had dominant periods. I think it's the nature of a game where a few players can be so dominant and have such a great impact. The impact of great players is more diffuse in other sports. This problem has only been compounded by the advent of the "superteam," where you have three or four true superstars clustered on one team. There aren't enough of these types of players to go around, so it really crushes the competition when this happens. Durant going to GS was pretty much an auto-championship, the only thing that could have stopped it was injury.

So what can the league really do about this? A harder salary cap might help, though GS's payroll is pretty reasonable so I'm not sure that would have impacted their success or their ability to get Durant. The Celtics have sort of been playing Moneyball the past couple of seasons, figuring they can't beat Cleveland's starting five, but maybe we can beat their bench with a deeper, more consistent team. So far, the experiment has failed, at lest vis-a-vis Cleveland when it counts. Maybe you could limit the years of a contract to force superstars back into free agency sooner and have them cycle to other teams more frequently. I just don't know. Basketball just doesn't seem like a game where a good "team" can beat a team with a small cadre of superstars or one very dominant player. I just don't know what can be done about that.

Occasionally I see women's college basketball of TV, and I enjoy that because it's so much more of a team game. Far more jump shots, team defense, fewer "stunts." If I lived near UMass, I'd go to their women's basketball games. But women's college basketball championships are frequently dominated by one team for extended periods (Tennessee, Connecticut), so I'm not sure it's any better in the end.

Bill

[Vic2012]

Although it will not happen, get rid of the 3-pointer and get back to team play and strategy!
.

I agree with this.

[Vic2012]

Hopefully GS will put the Cavs out of their misery tonight. I've got nothing agsinst Lebron James. He's Tom Brady. Everyone loves to hate the top dogs. I'm curious to see what Lebron/Cavs do in the off season. Unfortunately, the entire league has become Golden State's bitch.

[Vic2012]

Regular season has always been irrelevant.

There's a way to fix that, if you ask me. Eliminate one layer of playoff games, and maybe shorten the regular season by 10 or 12 games and not have 16 teams in the playoffs. But none of that will ever happen. It's now as if there are maybe 4-6 good teams and the rest of the teams are minor league teams.

[Vic2012]

Sputnick

Occasionally I see women's college basketball of TV, and I enjoy that because it's so much more of a team game. Far more jump shots, team defense, fewer "stunts." If I lived near UMass, I'd go to their women's basketball games.l

I actually enjoy women's college softball for than MLB.

[Brad to the Bone]

Well, the series is unwatchable. I get that there's no interest in this series, or the league. I'd like to know what the other two NBA fans think about the current state of this league. I wouldn't say the league has been ruined, but the regular season has become irrelevant.

While the large number of blowouts in this year's playoffs have kind of sucked, I don't really have a problem with "superteams" in general and I think the competitive balance problems have been overstated in recent years. Yes, this is the first time we've had the same teams in three straight finals, but the Lakers and Sixers met 3 times in 4 years from 1980 to 1983, and then it was Lakers-Celtics 3 times in 4 years from 1984 to 1987. Hell, the Lakers and Celtics met in the finals 6 times in 8 years in the 1960s! We've seen 5 different champions in the past 7 years; the league hasn't been that wide open since the 1970s.

What is ruining the game for me is all the BS foul calls where the attacking player jumps into the defender, completely initiates all the contact, and then the defender gets called for a foul. In one playoff game this year I even saw James Harden reach out to an opponent who was standing two feet away from him, grab the defender's arm and pull him towards himself, then randomly toss the ball up the air and get rewarded with three free throws. That stuff needs to be fixed.

The league also needs to do something about all the healthy scratches in the regular season. I remember a prime-time Saturday night Warriors/Spurs game this year where Golden State sat Curry, Thompson, and Green (this was during Durant's injury or he surely would have been a healthy scratch too), and San Antonio sat Leonard, Aldridge, and Parker. It was pretty much the same thing the following weekend when the Cavs scratched James, Irving, and Love for a prime-time match against the Clippers. It's bad enough for those of us watching on TV, but fans in the arenas are paying big bucks to basically watch D-League teams at that point.

[Sputnik]

The league also needs to do something about all the healthy scratches in the regular season. I remember a prime-time Saturday night Warriors/Spurs game this year where Golden State sat Curry, Thompson, and Green (this was during Durant's injury or he surely would have been a healthy scratch too), and San Antonio sat Leonard, Aldridge, and Parker. It was pretty much the same thing the following weekend when the Cavs scratched James, Irving, and Love for a prime-time match against the Clippers. It's bad enough for those of us watching on TV, but fans in the arenas are paying big bucks to basically watch D-League teams at that point.

You're absolutely right. As Vic pointed out there are just too many games, but as he also pointed out, the likelihood of reducing the number of games is slim to none. So you'll probably continue to see the healthy scratches which I think the players are pulsing for because they are exhausted.

Bill

[Vic2012]

And we're starting to hear rumors of LeBron bolting for LaLa Land already. He has a house in Brentwood.

[Gruno]

Golden State is behind and true to form in the NBA, one guy goes the length of the court as fast as he can in desperation and never looks to pass it off..and he misses the easy shot. They also have hurried down the court to shoot a couple of 3-pointers and they're bricks. Team work. Nope.

[Vic2012]

The Cavs have missed like 10 free throws. That will haunt them.

[Vic2012]

This game is becoming a clusterfuck.

[Gruno]

True. It was messy.

[Scott Bails]

Woo hoo! Markelle Fultz, baby! Trust the Process! Playoffs next year (if everyone stays healthy! )

[Facelift]

Woo hoo! Markelle Fultz, baby! Trust the Process! Playoffs next year (if everyone stays healthy! )

The future of the Eastern Conference would appear to be Boston and Philly.

[Scott Bails]

The future of the Eastern Conference would appear to be Boston and Philly.

Looks like Cleveland is crumbling. I heard talk that Kyrie was telling Butler not to come to Cleveland, as they won't even have a team soon.

[moecurlythanu]

Looks like Cleveland is crumbling. I heard talk that Kyrie was telling Butler not to come to Cleveland, as they won't even have a team soon.

Yeah, I heard that too. And I believed every word, because, y'know, I'm gullible.

[Facelift]

Looks like Cleveland is crumbling. I heard talk that Kyrie was telling Butler not to come to Cleveland, as they won't even have a team soon.

I don't know about "crumbling," but Lebron probably has one or two seasons left at most in him where he can carry the team. By the 2020s, Cleveland will probably settle into a .500 type team and the future will probably be Boston and Philly. Not next year, though - assuming Lebron is on the Cavs, I expect that they will be back in the finals.

[Scott Bails]

Yeah, I heard that too. And I believed every word, because, y'know, I'm gullible.

Well, yeah. A lot of rumors and "I heard from a source" kinda stuff going on the last few days.

[moecurlythanu]

I don't know about "crumbling," but Lebron probably has one or two seasons left at most in him where he can carry the team. By the 2020s, Cleveland will probably settle into a .500 type team and the future will probably be Boston and Philly. Not next year, though - assuming Lebron is on the Cavs, I expect that they will be back in the finals.

Yep. And why would Kyrie try to discourage a quality player from coming, knowing that they have a one or 2 year window, and he's tied to the team for at least that long? He's going to look out for Butler instead of the team that's paying him 90 mil? Instead of his own interests? C'mon. If the same rumor had come up involving an East Coast team, everyone would have scoffed.

[moecurlythanu]

Well, yeah. A lot of rumors and "I heard from a source" kinda stuff going on the last few days.

I think it was a Chicago writer for the Sun Times. Cowie or something like that. I'd guess he didn't want to lose Butler.

[Scott Bails]

assuming Lebron is on the Cavs,

Well, that's the issue, right?

[moecurlythanu]

Well, that's the issue, right?

He's on the team next year. After that, it depends what's important to him.

[Vic2012]

Eeesh. The Eastern Conference is a clusterfuck.

[Lou]

Is anybody else sick to death of hearing about Lorenzo Ball and his blowhard father?