The Devaluation of Music: It's Worse Than You Think

**Scrotum Scissor** · 10-13-2015

Originally Posted by JJ88

again when I hear the sort of material which is in the charts now, it's not wrong.

You don't like ape-made popz with autotune vox about dolls'n'dildos?

**BravadoNJ** · 10-13-2015

and of course one of the major factors in the devaluation of music..... MTV

**Skullhead** · 10-13-2015

Digital anything devalues the subject or content by it's very nature. When you digitize, it becomes a facsimile of what it is representing. Digital has it's place of course, and it's a wonderful invention for making life more convenient in many ways, but I don't consider it very important in the arts.

I think %99.99 of the population has taken and swallowed the convenience pill.

**Splicer** · 10-13-2015

Originally Posted by Facelift

A lot of this starts when you have people praising their favorite rock and prog albums as "great art," not merely excellent rock and roll records. A lot of this happened because of the failures of music education and because music education in general isn't valued. To actually understand *why* a great piece of music is considered so has nothing to do with whether you like humming it in your head or if it gives you chills, or whatever.

I've complained for a long time that too many people in the Prog community bend over backwards to praise music that deserves little or none for fear of hurting an artist's earning potential (or hurting the genre). It reminds me of the legendary Bob Wolf who sold his table of Prog CDs at the Record Show in the Holiday Inn on 57th St. in Manhattan. Every CD was a gem. Every CD a classic. The same goes with the descriptions I see on some of the online Prog dealers. I know you're trying to sell shit, but let's get real. If something is crap, it's crap.

**rcarlberg** · 10-13-2015

Originally Posted by Skullhead

Digital anything devalues the subject or content by it's very nature. When you digitize, it becomes a facsimile of what it is representing. Digital has it's place of course, and it's a wonderful invention for making life more convenient in many ways, but I don't consider it very important in the arts.

I think %99.99 of the population has taken and swallowed the convenience pill.

Wow. You are seriously misinformed.

You don't think an analog tape recording is "a facsimile of what it is representing"? You don't think a photo of a painting is a facsimile? An LP is a facsimile of a facsimile of a band's performance?

Digital is just another way to represent reality -- and a more accurate way than analog. Period.

**N_Singh** · 10-13-2015

Incidentally, here is some information about a group of people whose plight is often forgotten --songwriters who are separate from performers and musicians.

One can contentiously say we have seriously devolved in this area, where once the Cole Porters, George Gershwins, and Jerome Kerns reigned supreme. Nonetheless, there are serious misconceptions on the plight of songwriters.
75% of songwriter income is derived from government edict. And somgwtiters cannot go on strike.

http://wearesona.com/sonablog/2015/9...ucv6c0agd12amc

**rcarlberg** · 10-13-2015

Originally Posted by N_Singh

One can contentiously say we have seriously devolved in this area, where once the Cole Porters, George Gershwins, and Jerome Kerns reigned supreme. Nonetheless, there are serious misconceptions on the plight of songwriters.

Yes, one could.

Today's songwriters are not in the same league as Porter, Kern, Gershwin or Berlin; or even Nilsson, Newman, Lightfoot, King, Kristofferson, et al. It's all formulaic Pro-Tools-driven crap lyrics now.

Get off my lawn!

**N_Singh** · 10-13-2015

Originally Posted by rcarlberg

Yes, one could.

Today's songwriters are not in the same league as Porter, Kern, Gershwin or Berlin; or even Nilsson, Newman, Lightfoot, King, Kristofferson, et al. It's all formulaic Pro-Tools-driven crap lyrics now.

Get off my lawn!

You know, people are used to complain about the creed Taylor A&M West Montgomery sides, how poppy they were.

I would always respond with: compared to what's out now, that shit is Mozart.

**Baribrotzer** · 10-13-2015

Originally Posted by N_Singh

As I was originally saying about craftsmanship and craftswomanship, along comes an article about "Artisanal" music

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...new-thing.html

Which article, interestingly enough, refers to The Knells.

**JJ88** · 10-13-2015

Originally Posted by rcarlberg

Yes, one could.

Today's songwriters are not in the same league as Porter, Kern, Gershwin or Berlin; or even Nilsson, Newman, Lightfoot, King, Kristofferson, et al. It's all formulaic Pro-Tools-driven crap lyrics now.

Get off my lawn!

Witness the development of 'topline writing', where people compete for melodies on the same pre-recorded backing tracks.

And have you all heard about this '360 deal' thing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/360_deal

**ronmac** · 10-13-2015

Originally Posted by BravadoNJ

and of course one of the major factors in the devaluation of music..... MTV

Actually, I don't think MTV devalued the business model anywhere near as much as it did to the art. I have always maintained that the reason why the 80s was the worst decade of music is because of MTV ushering in "the look" and rendering substance to a mere supporting role. It took many years to undo some of the damage.

**rcarlberg** · 10-13-2015

MTV's biggest detriment is that pop acts suddenly had to look Disney cute. No more Cass Elliott, no more Meatloaf.

**Scrotum Scissor** · 10-13-2015

Originally Posted by Baribrotzer

Which article, interestingly enough, refers to The Knells.

Whose music is great and actually progressive and going somewhere - still, when presented to "prog fans", resonated absolutely null and void with anyone there but the usual 3,5%.

**zravkapt** · 10-13-2015

Originally Posted by rcarlberg

MTV's biggest detriment is that pop acts suddenly had to look Disney cute. No more Cass Elliott, no more Meatloaf.

Explain the success of Phil Collins during the 1980s.

**moecurlythanu** · 10-13-2015

Originally Posted by zravkapt

Explain the success of Phil Collins during the 1980s.

One reviewer said that he looked like a Cabbage Patch doll?

**Scott Bails** · 10-13-2015

Originally Posted by zravkapt

Explain the success of Phil Collins during the 1980s.

Journey was one of the biggest acts of the decade, and they're nothing to look at, either.

**BrianG** · 10-13-2015

David Byrne's answer to this new paradigm puts the work back on the artist. Byrne has put together a successful mix of do-it-yourself-ism, new and interesting collaborations with up and coming artists, writing a cool blog on his website, and writing Broadway music and marching band music - yes really - to keep his boat afloat. In fact he wrote the book on it "How Music Works"
He stays positive and interacts constantly with his fans and does not seem to be lacking in financial success, but he doesn't live the rock star life. He even digitized his library of music books for us to "borrow" from.

**rcarlberg** · 10-13-2015

Originally Posted by zravkapt

Explain the success of Phil Collins during the 1980s.

Inexplicable

**ronmac** · 10-13-2015

Originally Posted by rcarlberg

MTV's biggest detriment is that pop acts suddenly had to look Disney cute. No more Cass Elliott, no more Meatloaf.

I wish the Meatloaf part were really true.

Originally Posted by moecurlythanu

One reviewer said that he looked like a Cabbage Patch doll?

Or this cute little guy.

**N_Singh** · 10-13-2015

Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor

Whose music is great and actually progressive and going somewhere - still, when presented to "prog fans", resonated absolutely null and void with anyone there but the usual 3,5%.

Love the Knells. I blame Sid Smith for bringing them to my attention !

**Rick Robson** · 10-13-2015

Originally Posted by zravkapt

Explain the success of Phil Collins during the 1980s.

He's an.. 'easy lover' man.

Freakin' dancing Cabbage Patch doll

**Nijinsky Hind** · 10-14-2015

I love prog... But I also love many other forms of music. Some of the music I have stepped up and payed good money for would not be acceptable to this guy. Bands like Fear, damned, sex pistols, Buzzcocks etc. yeah punk rock! One mans no talent is another mans musical genius. His broad brush misses the canvas that is human nature.

I have spent more money on punk rock than pop in my lifetime, and would take the Clash or The Bags over Selena Gomez, Lady Gaga, or JayZ any day of the week. I buy what rocks me and give not a shit what others think about my "no talent" musical choices. I think King Crimson is probably the greatest band on the planet... Ever! Tull, Yes, genesis, porcupine tree, all great! Does not mean I wont go out and
spend my hard earned cash on a Dead Boys LP from back in the days of my youth.

In other words, judging others musical tastes is not only naive and closed minded, but also an exercise in futility. I even like Chicago but voted for YES in the R&R hall of fame thing. Probably while I was listening to some Villa lobos. Go figure. And Phil Collins musical output does nothing for me... But someone out there sure loves it!

And (as a listener) I am not concerned a bit about who besides the artist is making money off of music. As a matter of fact I hope all of the big corps who presume to profit off of others art, go belly up, and let the musicians and artists get the just compensation for their art. I buy from the artist direct whenever possible.