John Cage

[Mister Triscuits]

"Wagner's music is like a stream of bat's piss..."

A Rheingolden shower?

[Progbear]

I'm also partial to the magnetic tape version of "Fontana Mix" which was released on an old Turnabout LP called "Electronic Music". It was one of a series, the others of which I've never heard. This volume also had "Agony" by Ilhan Mimoraglu and "Visage" by Luciano Berio. This version of "Fontana Mix" is a work of musique concrete which I find exhilarating. It's got lots of cut-up sounds flying by, many of which are very brief. I love the effect, though it probably comes down to whether or not you would enjoy the specific sounds. I gather that there are different versions of this work out there and some of them sound radically different, so please understand that I'm ONLY referring to the one on the Turnabout LP (though it might have been reissued somewhere else by now). I know of one version which added vocalizations by Cathy Berberian - she ruined it, IMO.

I’d heard interesting things about Cage and his music, so I bought the Turnabout LP sound unheard. And it was the most outrageously weird album I had heard up to that point (I was still in high school). I grew to prefer the other two pieces more, especially “Agony,” which I find to be an early classic of electronic sound. I was not aware that there existed a version of “Visage” minus Cathy; her voice is both on my Turnabout LP and a CD reissue with an orchestral/choral piece by Berio entitled “Passaggio.” Frankly, I can’t imagine the piece without her; the electronics are cool but she is the icing on the cake.

As for “Fontana Mix”? Eh, it still just sounds like random bits of tape spliced together to me. Do a search for “Fontana Mix: Feed,” Max Neuhaus’ version for microphone feedback amplified through a couple of tympani. I think it’s a lot more satisfying.

Another piece I like is "Variations II" from New Music from Leaders of the Avant Garde on Sony. (I have a Japanese CD, but I guess the original LP was on Columbia). This one's rougher though, as it's based on scraped piano strings. However, these sounds eventually mutate into an unholy infernal drone which I find pretty satisfying. The other pieces are the IMO pretty awful "Ensembles for Synthesizer" by Milton Babbitt (very cold and academic) and the "Trois Visages de Liège" by Henri Posseur, a rather nice work for synthesizers and voice recordings.

I liked “Variations II” a lot. Your description of the piece is pretty accurate; some of it’s pretty harsh but it goes into an almost meditative state somewhere along the line. A bit at the end sounds like a car motor idling!

I wouldn’t call “Ensembles for Synthesizer” “pretty awful.” “Very cold and academic” is an accurate description of this, and most of Babbitt’s work, actually. It was produced on the [since dismantled] RCA-Princeton Synthesizer, one of the first (built in 1959, I believe).

There’s a hilarious story (related in the liner notes to the Columbia Masterworks LP) that Pousseur composed “Trois visages de Liège” for some important anniversary celebration of the city of Liège. Apparently when the civic events committee first heard the piece they had commissioned, they were appalled, and quickly informed Pousseur that they were going to use “more conventional music” instead.

Aww, what the hell? Might as well drag these off the mothballs!



Which, naturally, begat this:

[Reid]

I haven't listened to much Cage, but I'm enjoying the James Levine/CSO CD. It's a decent introduction to four American composers. The Cage piece, Atlas Eclipticalis (1961) is the experimental orchestral piece on the album. Due to the liberties given to the conductor and ensemble, the piece will sound different each time it's performed.

[Reid]

I feel that way about what i've heard of Cage's later compositions,starting in the mid/late 50's, when he was using chance procedures to determine the structure of his works.

But that was his philosophy about music, no? He wanted chance to determine the musical structure, rather than concrete construction.

[walt]

But that was his philosophy about music, no? He wanted chance to determine the musical structure, rather than concrete construction.

True.But for me, the final result,the completed composition,the end product,and my aesthetic reaction to it,was what mattered.And in the handful of Cage's works that i've heard over the years that used this manner(chance) to determine musical structure, i found the music less than compelling. Unlike many of Cage's works from the 30s and 40's when he used(presumably) more conventional means of structure and /or notation.

[Reid]

I like the sound of Atlas Eclipticalis, but I'll look in to more of his music. I have one other CD on loan from the library, but it's later works for string quartet performed by the Arditti Quartet.

[rcarlberg]

Due to the liberties given to the conductor and ensemble, the piece will sound different each time it's performed.

Meaning a skilled conductor can make it something interesting....

[trurl]

The problem with introducing chance into something like music is that there is probably a greater than 50% probability that for the average person what comes out of the process will be stupid. If chance made for interesting music we wouldn't even bother with composers. The point of composing could be said to be organinzing the various possibilities and getting rid of bad choices.

[rcarlberg]

Well said. If all choices were equally pleasing, aleatory composing would be universal and composers would be obsolete.

[no.nine]

I’d heard interesting things about Cage and his music, so I bought the Turnabout LP sound unheard. And it was the most outrageously weird album I had heard up to that point (I was still in high school). I grew to prefer the other two pieces more, especially “Agony,” which I find to be an early classic of electronic sound. I was not aware that there existed a version of “Visage” minus Cathy; her voice is both on my Turnabout LP and a CD reissue with an orchestral/choral piece by Berio entitled “Passaggio.” Frankly, I can’t imagine the piece without her; the electronics are cool but she is the icing on the cake.

I don't think Berberian is as annoying on Berio's "Visage" as she is on Cage's "Aria with Fontana Mix". But there are two reasons I feel this way. First, I also had that Turnabout LP when I was very young, in fact it was my first exposure to any type of electronic music. I found what Cathy added to "Visage" to be fascinating and entertaining. I never heard that piece without her, and I can't imagine it holding much interest for me.

But secondly, as I got older, I started to find self-consciously strange vocals to be really annoying. And that's what I find with the few other things I've heard from her - "Aria with Fontana Mix" being one of them. "Look how weird I can be". I'm not sure if there's less of that happening on "Visage" (though it DEFINITELY has those moments), or if it's that I give it a pass since the piece (hell, the whole album) holds such a special place in my heart.

I agree with you about Mimaroglu's "Agony", BTW. A tremendous piece.

As for “Fontana Mix”? Eh, it still just sounds like random bits of tape spliced together to me.

I can understand that. I definitely think it's the kind of piece where, if you don't like the individual sound sources or the complete random feel of the whole thing, there won't be much to enjoy. But I love the sounds that fell into place here. Typically, random music doesn't work for me.

Do a search for “Fontana Mix: Feed,” Max Neuhaus’ version for microphone feedback amplified through a couple of tympani. I think it’s a lot more satisfying.

Was it on that all-Neuhaus Columbia album? If so then I've heard it, and I don't remember being impressed with anything on that release, though I don't remember WHY. I may look for it on YouTube to refresh my memory.

I wouldn’t call “Ensembles for Synthesizer” “pretty awful.” “Very cold and academic” is an accurate description of this, and most of Babbitt’s work, actually.

Well, to me, "very cold and academic" = "pretty awful"!