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Thread: Marillion taking pre-orders for "Album 18"

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Totally agree. "Montreal" just meanders, if you weren't there. I love Essence, but The Hard Shoulder is hit 'n' miss for me.
    I rated Essence highly and still do. The 'song cycle' format gives it a focus...the downside is that the songs are kind of tied to that (I recall murmurings about how it wasn't working live when they were doing separate songs from it on their 2008 tour). But it's an album that works as a complete statement. The Hard Shoulder is just a bunch of songs with no cohesion. I like 'Asylum Satellite' and 'Real Tears For Sale' on there, otherwise it's second-tier stuff at best IMHO, and sometimes not even that ('Older Than Me'? 'Especially True'?).

    With 'Montreal', it's a song where they are simply 'playing to the gallery', really writing songs for an element of their die-hard fanbase.

  2. #77
    Member PotatoSolution's Avatar
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    Before the last album was released I remember the hype for "Gaza" , which they tried to sell as this transcendent experience that would take the band in a direction they've never gone before.

    Then I heard the song, which just sort of ... lays there. For 15 minutes. Before mercifully ending.

    STCBM was a disappointment, but I find it's dramatically improved by skipping its two longest tracks ("Gaza" and "Montreal").

  3. #78
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    I think "Gaza" is pretty good. I like the mood, and the lyrics work for me. But "Montreal" deserves all of the criticism it gets, IMO.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  4. #79
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    There is indeed some strong material on Sounds...- from memory I would say 'Gaza', the title track, 'Power' and 'The Sky Above The Rain' are up to their previous standards.

  5. #80
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    "Montréal" does seem to be a 'you had to be there' kind of thing. I was there, and I love that song. But I understand why others don't. The diary-style lyrics I can see being pretty unappealing to a lot of people. As for "Especially True", I love that song too.

    I've mentioned before "The Sky Above The Rain" is one that does nothing for me. Bland, boring snoozefest. And that's coming from a fan who likes nearly everything they've done, and doesn't even skip "Most Toys". I find that some of the most universally beloved tracks are the ones I just don't get (I'm looking at you, "Fantastic Place"). I've tried to like them, but I just don't. I think I've seen "Fantastic Place" about eight times live now, and while so many in the audience are instantly elated by the opening chords, I'm the guy in the audience who is silently disappointed at having to wait six more minutes to see what's next.

    Somewhere Else suffered from it's position in their catalogue, sandwiched between two large-scale double albums which had campaign editions with all the bells and whistles. I can't see any other reason for the criticism it received upon release. I think it has some great tracks, and the live album it spawned (Somewhere In London) is the best one they've done IMO.

    As for Misplaced Childhood, it has some of the strongest moments in the Fish-era catalogue, but overall would rank fourth (of the four) for me personally.
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.

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  6. #81
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    ^I've mentioned this before, but the show I saw of theirs had them playing 'Most Toys', 'Cannibal Surf Babe' *and* 'Hooks In You'...and it was still one of the best I've seen, despite me not liking any of those!

    I am one of those who thinks 'Fantastic Place' was something of a peak for the later Marillion. There's no doubt that Marbles is the best post-Afraid Of Sunlight release IMHO. There's not really much on that one I don't like, despite its length...perhaps 'Don't Hurt Yourself' I could live without, but it's not that objectionable.

  7. #82
    I love "Montréal", not in spite of but (partly) because of its questionable lyrics. The lyrics have a strange relationship with the music in this song, and that gives it a kind of surreal quality. The whole thing feels dreamy and works for me even though I wasn't there (and have never been to Montréal).
    "Gaza" is something else. I have learned to appreciate it but it's got many layers (too many ?), "heavy" lyrics and doesn't seem to go anywhere. But the fact that it doesn't seem to go anywhere is part of the meaning of the song in a way.
    (I'm not a Marillion fanatic, I just happen to like all of STCBM...)

  8. #83
    Member soundchaser93's Avatar
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    FWIW, I think "Gaza" is sublime. Even more powerful in concert -- what an opener! That said, it did take a few listens for it to click. There's lots and lots of layering (more than in any other Marillion track, I think), and it's tough to catch the nuances when you don't know where to turn the volume up.

    Essence is beautiful. Possibly my favorite album the band has ever put out. I'm always surprised to see it described as "noodling" or "meandering" -- the melodies strike me as incredibly strong. And I could write for pages about the lyrics, which I think are h at his finest.

    But perhaps I'm easily pleased -- I've loved everything since "Afraid of Sunlight" and I'm very much looking forward to seeing where the band goes next.

  9. #84
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundchaser93 View Post
    FWIW, I think "Gaza" is sublime. Even more powerful in concert -- what an opener! That said, it did take a few listens for it to click. There's lots and lots of layering (more than in any other Marillion track, I think), and it's tough to catch the nuances when you don't know where to turn the volume up.
    I feel the same way about "The Invisible Man."

    Quote Originally Posted by soundchaser93 View Post
    Essence is beautiful. Possibly my favorite album the band has ever put out. I'm always surprised to see it described as "noodling" or "meandering" -- the melodies strike me as incredibly strong. And I could write for pages about the lyrics, which I think are h at his finest.
    Agreed.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  10. #85
    Too many mid-tempo, dreary songs for me of late. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised in the future, however.
    Sleeping at home is killing the hotel business!

  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    I agree, it's a great album. I remember my very first listen to it well. It didn't gel, and I felt disappointed (it had just come out). Then on my second listen I realized it was amazing. Weird how that can happen. I got to hear them play half of it on the Clutching tour - now THAT was a religious experience!
    Cluthing didn't hit me at all right away either Then a few months later...BAM!

  12. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    I'm pretty much a Hogarth guy - I love Misplaced Childhood and Clutching, really like Jester's Tear, don't really care for Fugazi. That said, it would be really cool if they could do all of Misplaced Childhood one more time with H at the mic - maybe at one of the weekends, or something.
    Oh gosh no. Hogarth doing any Fish stuff is like crossing the streams. Don't do it. If he wants to stand there and hold the mike out for us to sing it? That's a different story.

    Of course Fish doing any Marillion these days is never a good idea either. It really wasn't all that great 13 years ago. Fortunately, we have the bootlegs repeatedly enjoy.

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Birdy View Post
    Mind if I ask how old you are?
    I was 19 when it first came out.

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiral View Post
    I don't know if it's been mentioned in one of these threads, but are all you huge Misplaced fans aware of Steve R's newest live release?

    http://steverothery.bandcamp.com/alb...desk-recording
    How did I miss this?

    THANKS!

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by soundchaser93 View Post
    FWIW, I think "Gaza" is sublime. Even more powerful in concert -- what an opener! That said, it did take a few listens for it to click. There's lots and lots of layering (more than in any other Marillion track, I think), and it's tough to catch the nuances when you don't know where to turn the volume up.

    Essence is beautiful. Possibly my favorite album the band has ever put out. I'm always surprised to see it described as "noodling" or "meandering" -- the melodies strike me as incredibly strong. And I could write for pages about the lyrics, which I think are h at his finest.

    But perhaps I'm easily pleased -- I've loved everything since "Afraid of Sunlight" and I'm very much looking forward to seeing where the band goes next.
    Aside from Brave and most of Afraid Of Sunlight, I really don't have a problem with anything else.

  16. #91
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ytserush View Post
    Oh gosh no. Hogarth doing any Fish stuff is like crossing the streams. Don't do it. If he wants to stand there and hold the mike out for us to sing it? That's a different story.
    We'll have to disagree. I love when Hogarth sings the old stuff - he's a much better singer than Fish ever was.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  17. #92
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ytserush View Post
    I was 19 when it first came out.
    And anyway, Marillion's been around since the 70s.

  18. #93
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    We'll have to disagree. I love when Hogarth sings the old stuff - he's a much better singer than Fish ever was.
    I agree that he's a better singer, but having seen him live many times, I can say that he really is just going through the motions with most of the Fish-era stuff - his heart is really not in it. He's a pro, and is still good at what he's doing, but aside from the one or two that he really likes himself ("Sugar Mice" is one I know), there's no comparing when it comes to the effort he puts in to the later material. Sticking the mic out to the crowd to sing entire verses has got to be one sure sign he's not really that into singing it. Whereas he's absolutely frenzied and completely immersed in the stuff he had a hand in.

    While other people cheer loudly at the opening strains of "Kayleigh" or "Incommunicado", I'm silently a little disappointed each time. I'm in the minority there, I know. I understand they need to throw a bone to the contingent of fans who would be inconsolable if they didn't get some 'old stuff', but personally I'd be happy with Seasons End onwards - and having actually spoken to Hogarth, I can assure you that he would too.

    I can't complain though. I do love the old stuff, and it is occasionally good fun to see them play "Script" or even "Garden Party". And I've seen them play practically every song they've ever done (they really are amazing with the amount of material they have rehearsed at any one time)... so this isn't meant as a strong criticism. I'd just personally prefer if the Fish stuff was left in the past now, because to me it really is the weak point of any show I've seen.
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.

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  19. #94
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ytserush View Post
    Oh gosh no. Hogarth doing any Fish stuff is like crossing the streams. Don't do it. If he wants to stand there and hold the mike out for us to sing it? That's a different story.
    You could leave the room for those songs instead, that'd be easiest.

  20. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    I agree that he's a better singer, but having seen him live many times, I can say that he really is just going through the motions with most of the Fish-era stuff - his heart is really not in it. He's a pro, and is still good at what he's doing, but aside from the one or two that he really likes himself ("Sugar Mice" is one I know), there's no comparing when it comes to the effort he puts in to the later material. Sticking the mic out to the crowd to sing entire verses has got to be one sure sign he's not really that into singing it. Whereas he's absolutely frenzied and completely immersed in the stuff he had a hand in.

    While other people cheer loudly at the opening strains of "Kayleigh" or "Incommunicado", I'm silently a little disappointed each time. I'm in the minority there, I know. I understand they need to throw a bone to the contingent of fans who would be inconsolable if they didn't get some 'old stuff', but personally I'd be happy with Seasons End onwards - and having actually spoken to Hogarth, I can assure you that he would too.

    I can't complain though. I do love the old stuff, and it is occasionally good fun to see them play "Script" or even "Garden Party". And I've seen them play practically every song they've ever done (they really are amazing with the amount of material they have rehearsed at any one time)... so this isn't meant as a strong criticism. I'd just personally prefer if the Fish stuff was left in the past now, because to me it really is the weak point of any show I've seen.

    Hogarth is absolutely technically the better singer (more raw talent) but that's only one component of it.

    But yeah, I wouldn't mind if the Fish stuff stays buried. But maybe I've repeatedly watched and listened to far too many bootlegs from 80-88 that I've completely spoiled myself and can't really enjoy that stuff any other way.

    That said, I'll never stop enjoying this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1d0c-I4baU




    And I just found this and haven't watched it yet., but the opening keyboards are killing me and I may not be able to handle watching it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ9m-HBzljY

  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by ytserush View Post
    Hogarth is absolutely technically the better singer (more raw talent) but that's only one component of it.

    But yeah, I wouldn't mind if the Fish stuff stays buried. But maybe I've repeatedly watched and listened to far too many bootlegs from 80-88 that I've completely spoiled myself and can't really enjoy that stuff any other way.

    That said, I'll never stop enjoying this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1d0c-I4baU




    And I just found this and haven't watched it yet., but the opening keyboards are killing me and I may not be able to handle watching it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ9m-HBzljY
    Yikes....

    This one from a month later is a little better...The crowd really helps pull it through.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5XbZ4pZJsE

  22. #97
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    While other people cheer loudly at the opening strains of "Kayleigh" or "Incommunicado", I'm silently a little disappointed each time. I'm in the minority there, I know
    I'm part of that minority too. I haven't listened to any of the Fish-era albums since the last millennium, I just have no interest in those albums any more (I played them to death when they came out, to be sure). When I saw Marillion at the West Hollywood House of Blues in 2012, they did Slainte Mhath and h basically stood by the drum riser and let the crowd sing most of it. Why bother? Would their crowds, especially in the US, drop in number dramatically if they didn't do the Fish-era stuff any more? I can't imagine that someone who has little-to-no interest in the h-era would show up at a gig just on the off chance they'd do Fish-era stuff.
    ...or you could love

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