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Thread: Shorter, Hancock, Mclaughlin to form new fusion group

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    Shorter, Hancock, Mclaughlin to form new fusion group

    With Ssntana and his wife. Given that Carlos has the biggest bank account and the most fame but the smallest and the most mediocre talent otherwise unworthy to musically Carry the others jock straps, I presume he will be the bandleader .

    http://www.relix.com/news/detail/car..._wayne_shorter

  2. #2
    Isn't the orig Santana making a new record and touring???

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    Member Haruspex Carnage's Avatar
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    i'm cautiously optimistic...but even his return to roots album, Shaman i think?, was cheeseballs.


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    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    They will probably record in separate rooms with a 1000 miles apart.

  5. #5
    It's one of many projects that Santana has been talking about. The reunion album with the original band (four of them anyway) is apparently recorded and will happen first.

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    Member No Pride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_Singh View Post
    Given that Carlos has the biggest bank account and the most fame but the smallest and the most mediocre talent otherwise unworthy to musically Carry the others jock straps, I presume he will be the bandleader .
    How do you musically carry a jockstrap? Not that I want to learn.

    But that was cold. While I agree that he's not in the same league as those guys, Carlos has his place in the musical universe. And at least he's hip enough to recognize the extreme talents of those guys and want to work with them. Hell, if I could afford to hire Herbie and Wayne to play on my album, I would. I'd even learn to musically carry their jockstraps if that was part of the deal.

  7. #7
    Sound's good on paper, however, one could argue that Santana's announcements of projects (that never materialize) is somewhat akin to Jon Anderson's Project announcements.

    PS: do not expect: Love, Devotion, Surrender Pt II.

    I will of course keep an open mind & ears...

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    Member Phlakaton's Avatar
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    On paper is right - -- I fear the contemporary sound that will ensue... nothing grotty or old school.

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    ^Agreed. Get these guys in a room to really play without too much 'technology' and you'd have something worthwhile IMHO. But I don't really want a techno-fest.

  10. #10
    McLaughlin also has a new album coming out, so I question whether they'll all be available by next spring.

    It'll be great if it actually happens. Carlos isn't a shredder, but his lyricism helps balance out the virtuosity of the others quite well.

  11. #11
    Member wideopenears's Avatar
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    I'm cautiously optimistic, myself. I'm with Ernie, too....Carlos may be not in the same league as Wayne Shorter...but really, who is? Hancock and McLaughlin are luminaries, for sure...and Cindy Blackman Santana is a badass drummer, if you've not seen her. But Wayne.....for me, Wayne is outside the solar system, really....the only other guy alive who I think may be out there with him is Hermeto.

    Who's on bass, is what I want to know?

    Carlos, you know....he's melodic. Yes, he's got his cliches, etc., but sometimes it's nice to hear melodic playing, instead of a stream of 1,625 64th notes per bar. I really dig Swing of Delight, and Carlos' excursions in a more jazzy direction, not merely for his playing, but for the vibe the bands get. To me, the best Santana band still was the Lotus incarnation.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    ^Agreed. Get these guys in a room to really play without too much 'technology' and you'd have something worthwhile IMHO..
    If you haven't heard it, try Santana's album "The Swing of Delight" which includes Shorter and Hancock (and Tony Williams and Ron Carter). Proof that he can hold his own in heavy jazz company.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by wideopenears View Post
    To me, the best Santana band still was the Lotus incarnation.

    Right on Brother...that band SMOKES. Lotus still gets regular spins at my place.

  14. #14
    Michael Shrieve has posted from time to time on Facebook about the early Santana reunion project. It is happening although they don't seem to be rushing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wideopenears View Post

    Carlos, you know....he's melodic. Yes, he's got his cliches, etc., but sometimes it's nice to hear melodic playing, instead of a stream of 1,625 64th notes per bar. .
    Probably not as cliched as running the same pentatonic scale that leads to the inevitable major 2nd -minor 3rd ascending slurs at about the 10 position, climaxing in a massive string bend and vibrato at about the 12th position--accompanied by the coitally inclined facial expression that would make David Gilmour blush ?

    Wayne said something very interesting in an interview a few years back: contrasting his involvement with European orchestras with Herbie's popular and more contemporary musical interests, Wayne said " Herbie works that side of the room and I work this side of the room".

    Maybe they all agreed to meet in the common Foyer ?

    I wish those concerts with Wayne's quartet and the European orchestras were recorded . I would love to hear that more than anything.

    As far as I'm concerned, there are no accolades left that are sufficient to describe the genius that is Wayne Shorter. Modern, post functional harmony jazz composition starts here,

    Actually, I was just listening to a ton of 1960 era Messengers, when Wayne and Lee Morgan and Bobby Timmons were in the group . Hard bop got no better than that .

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    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_Singh View Post
    Probably not as cliched as running the same pentatonic scale that leads to the inevitable major 2nd -minor 3rd ascending slurs at about the 10 position, climaxing in a massive string bend and vibrato at about the 12th position--accompanied by the coitally inclined facial expression that would make David Gilmour blush ?
    .
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0nIlJKSrVg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPBpZpNuY8c

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    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bRETT View Post
    If you haven't heard it, try Santana's album "The Swing of Delight" which includes Shorter and Hancock (and Tony Williams and Ron Carter). Proof that he can hold his own in heavy jazz company.
    Yes, a good one. Funny how somebody can be so concerned about "the guy with the least amount of talent" when you'll also be able to hear Hancock and Shorter on the same recording.

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    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_Singh View Post
    accompanied by the coitally inclined facial expression that would make David Gilmour blush ?
    I've never seen Gilmour effect that expression. He favors the "guy in a raincoat perusing the latest issue of Hustler in plain sight of passersby at a newsstand" look.

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    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bRETT View Post
    If you haven't heard it, try Santana's album "The Swing of Delight" which includes Shorter and Hancock (and Tony Williams and Ron Carter). Proof that he can hold his own in heavy jazz company.
    and the album with Jonny Mac wasn't too shabby either

    I'm hoping for the best!
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  20. #20
    McLaughlin with Hancock and Shorter could be interesting as I don't think they have collaborated much since early 70's Miles, although they were all involved with the movie Round Midnight in the 80's.

  21. #21
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    ""Definitely spring recording and summer touring in Europe and maybe America," Santana says of their plans. "Can you hear it? It's kind of like playing with, sharing music with Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking, 'cause Wayne and Herbie, they're at that level of genius, genius, genius, genius. I'm just grateful that they accept it and want to do it. And every time I play with Cindy, it goes viral. People go crazy. The energy between Cindy and I is very, very supernova."

    http://www.billboard.com/articles/co...irection=false

  22. #22
    Member rapidfirerob's Avatar
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    I'm excited about both projects. I saw the last reunion Santana tour in 88 when his then current band and the original band
    members still around and willing played. Should be big fun.
    If some folks aren't interested in the Herbie, Wayne, Mac, and Cindy project. stay home and don't buy the album. Problem solved. Carlos
    has played with them before. No, he's not a jazz player. He is a fine rock guitarist, quite melodic and has written more than a few good songs in his day.
    Swing of Delight and Lotus are fine albums, as mentioned already. Sounds like another very interesting project to see and buy the album, if there
    is one. I don't see how getting those incredible musicians together can possibly be bad, with Carlos in the mix as well. I saw Cindy with Spectrum Road, and
    she channelled Tony that night. I'm all in!

  23. #23
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    The musicians are all great, the idea is good - but I'm pretty sure they will never meet in persons, just play to recordings in different studios. Or eventually meet one day and play to scores whithout rehearsing and playing live. It will never be a band, the interplay will be limited, even if the compositions are fabulous it will most probably be a sterile affair.

    I could be wrong. Time will show.

  24. #24
    Member R_burke's Avatar
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    Although not quite of the same caliber the 5 Peace Band toured so there is hope that this one might as well

    5 Peace Band
    Chick Corea
    John McLaughlin
    Christian McBride
    Kenny Garrett
    Vinnie Colaiuta

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    Wow, I've never seen so much hatred for Carlos Santana in one thread. If anything, I'd be worried that the presence of Shorter and Hancock would make the result too jazzy and free-form.

    I must say it seems an odd collaboration - even more so than some of Santana's other collaborations. When he worked with people like Rob Thomas and Jennifer Lopez it was clear that the style of the recording was dictated by Santana - the singers were the vehicles through which he was channelled. With three virtuoso musicians, but virtuosos in somewhat different fields, I'm sceptical how well it could work. Adding one musician to another is not like adding two whole numbers; the result can turn out greater than the sum of the parts, but sometimes it's less.

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