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Thread: Van der Graaf generator Refugees promo video from 1970

  1. #1

    Van der Graaf generator Refugees promo video from 1970

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82nPgwAUS9M

    Here is a gem nobody knew about: REFUGEES promo video from VDGG way back from 1970 (Jan., februari, March,..??) Recorded in United kingdom. I found the treasure at my attic. ----------Peter Hammill ; ''''Fine by me, if it's out there!Many thanks herman....and I *still* have no memory of this at all!...nor do I even remember that shirt ;-)------- David jackson;I have no recollection of ever seeing it before, but it is fascinating! You can say ‘I’m surprised - and delighted to see this video out there; but I don’t remember the session! Lovely bass playing Nic! I do remember working with Hugh on the string arrangements in my basement flat in Ladbroke Grove.'-------
    A Big thanks to ; Jim Christopulos, cowriter of VDGG Book (with Phil Smart).
    ----Herman Permentier, www.madcurry.be
    any rarities for sale by VDGG Or Peter Hammill?? let me know!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82nPgwAUS9M
    Last edited by HermanPermentier; 08-06-2015 at 03:16 PM.

  2. #2
    Member Paulrus's Avatar
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    Cool. Peter's vocal looks very un-mimed toward the end. You gotta hand it to Tony Stratton-Smith -- he took care of his bands.
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    A bit more background on this, from my VdGG Facebook page:

    A promo video of VdGG miming to "Refugees" from 1970 has surfaced, courtesy of Herman Permentier. This is one of those stories that make you wonder what else is out there. After the recent discovery of Peter Hammill's appearance on the famous British kid's show "Playaway" from 1979, all the Hammill fan forums were buzzing. Tucked away somewhere amidst all the comments was a statement from Herman that a promo for "Refugees" also existed. I thought, "Huh??" I followed up with him privately to ask what he was on about. It turned out that Herman had, in his attic, an old videotape copy of this clip (acquired privately from an old BBC producer) that had been gathering dust for 25 - 30 years. Just sitting there, un-played for decades... this absolutely historic piece of VdGG history. Herman played it for the first time in years, sent me a description, and I immediately hit up Peter, Hugh, Guy, and Dave and asked if any of them remembered it based on the description. The answer was Nope. Phil (my VdGG book co-author) and I did ascertain that it was cool with PH for Herman to post the vid so that everyone could see it (a concern of Herman's) and let Herman know. Once Herman got the green light, he bought all the proper cables, etc, and set about digitizing it. The blue flashes, etc, aren't on his original tape but happened during the transfer. That'll be fixed later probably, but for the time being this is a very watchable slice of wonderment.

    Amidst all the round-robin emails with the band and all the jokes about Peter's shirt, and the various clothes, lip-synching, etc, I found out (as did Herman in his own emails to the group) that even after seeing the vid, NO ONE in the band remembers this. They had no idea that a promo for "Refugees" existed and they don't remember making it. John Anthony, the band's producer and basically another member of the band both socially and professionally at the time, sent the clip to me privately once Herman had posted it and humorously exclaimed "WTF?" I was going to ask him if he remembered or knew about this clip, but I think that was my answer! Perhaps Gail Colson, who was at Charisma (VdGG's record label) will remember something about this (maybe an idea of Strat's 'cos he loved the song so much?).

    It's a British clip (Herman ascertained this) so it was probably shown on the BBC. On January 9th, 1971, the band was shown lip-synching on a BBC show called "Disco 2" but that would have been the four-piece lineup -- this clip includes bassist Nic Potter, so this is the five-piece months before Nic split. It's the single version of "Refugees" the group is miming to in this clip, which came out April '70, so I would go with this being filmed around April '70 then.

    After the Playaway performance and then this (both instances where these old video tapes had been gathering dust for years in peoples' attics), everyone needs to go upstairs into their storage rooms and look for VdGG/PH gems...

    As no known footage of the '68/'69 lineup with Keith Ellis exists, this may be the first filmed performance of VdGG (their appearance on German TV's 'Beat Club' came a few months after this). A big thanks to Herman for sharing, the VdGG fan community owes him a lot. This clip has been mostly unseen since 1970. Now it will be enjoyed by thousands.

  5. #5
    I kindly ask if this wonderful video is going to be shared for free as a high quality download (when fixed from the blue flashes) or maybe there are plans for an official release? It could be part of a DVD-Video-single for example (all Refugees versions b/w Boat Of A Million Years).
    For sure, if Robert Fripp had found a video like this, it would be a perfect excuse for another 30-disc box-set.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by peterpyser View Post
    I kindly ask if this wonderful video is going to be shared for free as a high quality download (when fixed from the blue flashes) or maybe there are plans for an official release? It could be part of a DVD-Video-single for example (all Refugees versions b/w Boat Of A Million Years).
    For sure, if Robert Fripp had found a video like this, it would be a perfect excuse for another 30-disc box-set.
    All you need is Firefox and this https://flashgot.net/
    "Always ready with the ray of sunshine"

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by peterpyser View Post
    For sure, if Robert Fripp had found a video like this, it would be a perfect excuse for another 30-disc box-set.
    Holy poo...I just spit out my coffee. Too funny.........................(hey, better than saying: Holy coffee, I just spit out my poo)

  8. #8
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    There were very few outlets for pop on the BBC at the time this was filmed, so I can't see where it would have been shown. To the best of my knowledge VDGG never were anywhere near Top Of The Pops (even in the short-lived 'album slot' where progressive/heavy bands appeared...including Yes). Colour Me Pop had finished by this time, and Old Grey Whistle Test had not started- again, I am unaware of any VDGG involvement (including promo film showings) with any of these programmes. If this wasn't what was shown on Disco 2 then goodness knows. It's possible it was shown on a regional ITV show, I suppose.

    What I can't understand, why VDGG? I am not aware of a promo film for any other Charisma act at the time...not even those who had a greater level of success like The Nice, Lindisfarne and Rare Bird.

  9. #9
    Member Paulrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    There were very few outlets for pop on the BBC at the time this was filmed, so I can't see where it would have been shown. To the best of my knowledge VDGG never were anywhere near Top Of The Pops (even in the short-lived 'album slot' where progressive/heavy bands appeared...including Yes). Colour Me Pop had finished by this time, and Old Grey Whistle Test had not started- again, I am unaware of any VDGG involvement (including promo film showings) with any of these programmes. If this wasn't what was shown on Disco 2 then goodness knows. It's possible it was shown on a regional ITV show, I suppose.

    What I can't understand, why VdGG? I am not aware of a promo film for any other Charisma act at the time...not even those who had a greater level of success like The Nice, Lindisfarne and Rare Bird.
    Wasn't VdGG taking off in Italy around this time, or was that after Nic Potter had left? Which takes me to my other point: perhaps the intended audience were more in Europe than the BBC. Or maybe Tony Stratton Smith just had a hard on for VdGG (a revolting metaphor, I know) and felt they deserved the exposure.
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

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    ^The fact they re-recorded it for single release and now the emergence of this film really makes me think that the 'powers that be' believed they had a hit on their hands here.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    There were very few outlets for pop on the BBC at the time this was filmed, so I can't see where it would have been shown. To the best of my knowledge VDGG never were anywhere near Top Of The Pops (even in the short-lived 'album slot' where progressive/heavy bands appeared...including Yes). Colour Me Pop had finished by this time, and Old Grey Whistle Test had not started- again, I am unaware of any VDGG involvement (including promo film showings) with any of these programmes. If this wasn't what was shown on Disco 2 then goodness knows. It's possible it was shown on a regional ITV show, I suppose.

    What I can't understand, why VDGG? I am not aware of a promo film for any other Charisma act at the time...not even those who had a greater level of success like The Nice, Lindisfarne and Rare Bird.
    The Nice were (I think) broken up by April '70, which is when this was probably filmed. Lindisfarne weren't big yet (they had an opening slot for headliners VdGG on the following year's six Bob tour; April '70 is very much pre-Fog On The Tyne), and Rare Bird had As Your Mind Flies By out, which I'm not too sure about (did it chart as high as VdGG's The Leasr?). Also, VdGG was Strat's fave band, and Refugees his fave song. Still doesn't totally explain why a promo was filmed, but in the context of the other bands it's no mystery.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucka001 View Post
    The Nice were (I think) broken up by April '70, which is when this was probably filmed. Lindisfarne weren't big yet (they had an opening slot for headliners VdGG on the following year's six Bob tour; April '70 is very much pre-Fog On The Tyne), and Rare Bird had As Your Mind Flies By out, which I'm not too sure about (did it chart as high as VdGG's The Leasr?). Also, VdGG was Strat's fave band, and Refugees his fave song. Still doesn't totally explain why a promo was filmed, but in the context of the other bands it's no mystery.
    Wasn't Rare Bird kinda popular - Sympathy was supposed to be a hit in Europe.
    "Always ready with the ray of sunshine"

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    Yes, 'Sympathy' made waves. Ironically one of the few existing recordings from Disco 2 features Rare Bird!

  14. #14
    Yeah, "Sympathy" was big (but bigger on the continent than in England I always thought). Rare Bird's time in the limelight was short-lived, though. By the time of the Six Bob tour of January '71, VdGG was the top dog at Charisma and thus headlined the VdGG/Lindisfarne/Genesis package tour. In the scheme of things, though, "success" panned out just the opposite with Genesis going onto... well, we know what kind of success they had; and Lindisfarne gaining mucho mainstream popularity (in the UK at least); VdGG were always a modestly (at best) successful, big cult band but without the "hits" the other two bands later enjoyed.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Yes, 'Sympathy' made waves. Ironically one of the few existing recordings from Disco 2 features Rare Bird!
    Wow! That's cool. I know they did some other TV stuff around that time, but don't think I've seen the Disco 2 clip. Is it on youtube?

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    Lindisfarne faded away too- they had a small resurgence in the late 70s, but really 1971 was their peak by some distance.

    Rare Bird left Charisma, which perhaps didn't help the momentum. I've heard little of what they did for Polydor. Those first two Rare Bird albums are absolutely magnificent. I don't know if that clip is on YouTube...it's not the kind of thing which would be repeated on TV, so maybe not.

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  18. #18


    "Always ready with the ray of sunshine"

  19. #19
    Nice, Charles. Seen the TOTP vid before, and possibly the French one (I know I've seen a few RB vids from back then). They were also on Beat Club doing Sympathy, I have it on an old VHS somewhere. I actually transferred that back in the day and sent it to Dave Kaffinetti, along with some old Melody Maker articles on RB. He was very moved and happy with that! I talked to him for the VdGG book and recorded the conversation. He was great and very funny... I felt like I was talking to Viv Savage himself (I sorta was!).

  20. #20
    Mystery solved. I posted the info this morning on my VdGG Facebook page (see here: https://www.facebook.com/vandergraaf..._post_reaction

    For those who don't do Facebook, here's the post:

    STOP THE PRESSES! MYSTERY SOLVED!!! (buckle in, this should be a fascinating read for the VdGG enthusiasts out there!)

    A few weeks ago I posted VdGG's 1970 mimed performance of "Refugees" (here it is again: https://youtu.be/ZHpBEGkGFGo ). This has been one enigmatic film clip. It was first "discovered" a few years ago by VdGG super-fan Herman Permentier. He'd mentioned that he had an old 16mm film reel in his attic that was given to him several years ago by a former BBC producer. He himself hadn't played the reel in many years but remembered that, among the many music clips included, there was a film of VdGG miming to Refugees. He mentioned that on Facebook somewhere as an 'in passing', throwaway comment while addressing something else. I caught it and privately emailed him: "Whoa!! What??? You have an old vid of VdGG performing Refugees???" No one knew about this, much less had it (I'm talking about all the VdGG cognoscenti / avid collectors / super fans), and it was never listed on any old video / TV lists, etc, so the possibility of this even existing came totally out of left field. Herman went about digitizing the clip (through much time, effort, and $$, for which the whole VdGG community should be ever thankful) and made it available for all to see on Youtube and other outlets. The clip was a bit rough (fuzzy picture, time code, etc) but was still a wonderful find that many have since enjoyed. The mystery of the film's origins (who made it, for what purpose, where was it filmed, etc) grew even greater when I reached out to the band themselves (as well as their producer at the time, and a few Charisma staff members from back then) and *NO ONE* had any recollection, whatsoever, of making this film (Hammill didn't even remember ever owning that shirt...). Total mystery.

    Recently, a much cleaner, better version of that same video appeared on Youtube on a channel called Piers Bedford Media. At least *part* of the mystery was solved. The director of the film was a man called Piers Bedford. I googled him with the intent of reaching out and annoying him with several nerdy, fanboy questions about the video. Info on Piers was scant. I found a Facebook profile for a Piers Bedford who had studied at the U of Maryland (USA) so I didn't think it was the same person (I assumed that our Piers Bedford was from the UK). Nevertheless, I shot off a private message a while back and heard nothing, and let it go... until very recently, when he responded to my Facebook message out of the blue.

    It turns out that Piers Bedford is from the UK but went to school at the University of Maryland (USA) in 1966 to do a post-grad TV directing course. He returned to the UK around '67/'68 and went to work at Eyeline Films where he directed around 150 bands in music promo videos for TV (thus making him a true pioneer / innovator of the music video later made famous by MTV and the like), over 200 commercials (mainly for records), and spots where he directed several "name" DJs such as Kenny Everett, Tommy Vance, Alan "Fluff" Freeman, and Tony Blackburn ("on the day he split very publicly with his wife"). Piers went on to have a thriving career directing hundreds of videos, including shoots for The Cure, Bill Wyman, The Jam, Siouxsie & The Banshees, Sham 69, Status Quo and others (including many punk bands).

    He remembers making the VdGG vid well. The VdGG shoot was done mostly on June 2, 1970. You'll see from the Call Sheet he sent me (posted above) that the film was done at Eyeline Films Studio on 77 Dean St in London. He never shot two vids in one day but June 2nd that year was an exception (he shot Rare Bird in the morning, Van der Graaf in the afternoon as the call sheet bears out). One can see on his YouTube page that he'd also done vids and commercials for Clifford T Ward and Alan Hull, as well as that Charisma-heavy commercial I posted a few weeks ago (that included PH's Chameleon). So, there was obviously some sort of Charisma label connection. It turns out that Piers got to know Charisma label boss Tony Stratton Smith and got on well with him. Piers mentioned that he did two Charisma ads and they were the 1st videotape commercials ever on UK TV.

    Piers: "I don't remember the exact commissioning process but I got to know Stratton Smith well and on a recent UK 60s / 70s site I was saying he was a great / fun guy. His office was a block away from mine I think, in Soho."

    As for the VdGG shoot: "Amazingly there was no UK TV outlet then apart from Top of the Pops so it probably never was shown in the UK except possibly on some local programme as 'filler', but unlikely... Most of these promos went to 'Beat Club' on German TV and other European stations, nothing in the UK unbelievably. Many were mimed to playback in our studio at 77 Dean St in Central London, in a half day probably. Possibly little or no big pre-production discussion back then... later, maybe. Crew was probably 3 people, including my wife. Budget was probably about 300 dollars. There was often a problem with the instrumental bits and they needed livening up so I often 'cut to slow motion girl' in desperation!!! I shot those exterior bits myself in Chiswick London by the Thames [so that's the location of the girl in the vid - jc]. I never did anything else for Van der Graaf. I remember it quite vividly but many things from that era were indeed a blur for many people due to other factors!!"

    Thanks a million to Piers Bedford for 1) shooting this quite historically important vid of VdGG back in the day, and doing such a great job with it, 2) making it (and several other of his fascinating videos) available on his YouTube channel, and 3) taking the time to shed light on this previously enigmatic / mysterious Van der Graaf '70 vid that we all love so much. Thanks Piers!!!

    -- Jim Christopulos
    vdgg.jpg
    Last edited by Bucka001; 08-30-2019 at 03:39 PM.

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    ^^Very nice, thanks for sharing!

  22. #22
    Thanks, Jim, for taking the time to share this fascinating (if, indeed, nerdy!) story. It really transports us back to a time (at the "birth of prog") when things were very, very, different!

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    Bedford's YouTube channel is a bit of a treasure trove, various extremely rare promos for other artists:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE9...widZ30A/videos

    The call-sheet answered my earlier question as Rare Bird did obviously shoot a promo!

  24. #24
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    Very cool, many thanks for the info and dogged determination.

  25. #25
    I love this type of prog-rocking-archaeology, thank you for being so tenacious in your investigation. It truly is a thrill to find such treasures from a time when everything was brand new and innovative.

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