Tony Ortiz - Official Archivist at Emerson Lake & Palmer
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I've always wondered, what's the general opinion about where Greg falls in the ranks of bassists and guitarists?
Tim
I think that he was an excellent bassist who gets under-rated because he pales next to his two virtuoso band mates.Originally Posted by Relayer53
He was not an innovative bassist like Squire, Levin, or Manring, but he did some really nice stuff. I believe he had the potential to be a fine guitarist if he had put the effort into practice. But, he would have made a career on his voice, alone.
He consciously took the support role in ELP, he provided the function that a drummer would in a typical rock band. Note: these comments are about his playing from 1970-74. He had the technique, to play the 5/4 Tarkus intro part at the tempos he did shows that, but where I think he lacks that last touch of originality is that he often relies on just playing octaves or root notes. Keith has complained that Greg had complete freedom to play what he wanted but would often just mimic what his left hand is doing. Also, he had a great bass tone in that time period, the Jazz Bass > Hiwatt sound was terrific, it had treble bite but also depth. I love the Ripper > Crown power amps > custom speaker setup too, though that's perhaps lacking that last bit of depth. The less said about his Alembic 8-string sound the better on the Works tour the better!
As for his guitar playing, as is well known, he and Robert Fripp were considered equals in their Bournemouth days, he could still play well in ELP. I know some don't like the guitar solos he would do on Battlefield in the early 70's, but I love the fuzzed out snaking lines, such as on WMBF. He was a really good acoustic player too, great tone:
The "classical" bit in the middle isn't for beginners.
He's my favorite rock/pop singer in the KC > 70/80's ELP/ELPowell period, it's such a shame that he thrashed his voice in the 90's.
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Fair to say this is from Pictures DVD? I've never seen this before.. only heard people talk about that release.. some good reports others not so good.. To my eye this is proshot and looks great..
The "classical" bit in the middle isn't for beginners.
He's my favorite rock/pop singer in the KC > 70/80's ELP/ELPowell period, it's such a shame that he thrashed his voice in the 90's.
Yes, it was professionally done - on video. You can see one of the large cameras in some shots. Then, it was transferred to film for the theatrical release. There were two major problems: the director added some wacky comics graphics and video feedback, and the audio was sub-par, which is why ELP recorded another concert and released it as an album.
I was in a "Rock Ensemble" class at a local junior college back in the early 1980s. We had music dept faculty plus folks they knew in the biz acting as our advisers. One of these guys was a studio bassist from LA. One time we got to talking about bass players, and since I was going through a major ELP phase at the time I asked him what he thought of Greg Lake. He snorted derisively and said, "Greg Lake? He's a guitar player." It sort of burst my bubble since Lake was a bit of a hero of mine at the time, but in hindsight I understand his viewpoint. Lake was a guitar player who became a bassist (much like Mike Rutherford), though his guitar-like approach served him well for that band at that particular moment in rock history (ditto for Rutherford). I still think he proved himself a very capable player, but I don't think he'll ever be considered a great bassist in the same vein as a Stanley Clarke, or even Squire or Wetton.
But it was his versatility that made him so great for ELP. Complex bass parts, the occasional electric guitar leads, solo folky acoustic segments, and that great voice... what a package.
I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.
Nice stories.
"Known Chris my entire life"
"Shared a London flat."
"Henderson, Snake and Charmer" and "Maybe"....
Hah, the "Yes" sticker on the private jet, nearly caused their untimely demise.
“Where words fail, music speaks.” - Hans Christian Anderson
As a bass player I never felt Lake had that special something which Squire had. There are some stand-out moments like the fuzz bass on 'The Barbarian'.
As a guitar player Lake was much better- glad to see 'The Sage' mentioned, which is an excellent showcase of his ability. I always loved his electric work in 'Karn Evil 9' too.
Nice story---never a big ELP fan but liked some of their songs---Yes was a richer more dimensional band for me---
I guess there's more stories like this to be heard as most artists/bands would have mixed the same circles. ELP & YES where by far my favourite prog bands!
I don't think there would have been room in ELP for Squire/Entwhistle-style busyness. Lake's bass tone probably could have used some more punch, but it didn't help that Palmer was very jazzy and top kit-oriented. ELP always lacked low end to my ears.
Fair to say this is from Pictures DVD? I've never seen this before.. only heard people talk about that release.. some good reports others not so good.. To my eye this is proshot and looks great..
From what I've read, the filmmakers showed up the day of the show (12/9/70, US style) at the London Lyceum and announced to an unaware ELP "We're here to film the show". Woops. It is a great document in terms of showing how quickly ELP became a fantastic live band (it was only their 35th gig), the insane amount of energy they put in to it, how incredible a 20-year old Carl Palmer was and some great Emerson improv on the Moog. Unfortunately, the colorization of the image (especially in Take a Pebble) and the horrible cartoons that almost totally obscure the band during Pictures at an Exhibition, a complete version) are horrible, dated hippie bullshit relics. Plus, there's terrible editing choices, such as not being able to see Emerson's hands during his piano solo, we know the angle was available because we see them during The Barbarian). The sound isn't great, not a surprise since ELP didn't have a chance to prepare for it and it doesn't include the Nutrocker encore.
The whole thing is here:
Miles better than the horrible Isle of Wight film that contains about 3 minutes of actual ELP footage from the Isle of Wight, the rest is the soundtrack with the image being lifted from the Lyceum show and 10 minute stretches of watching sailboats and other nonsense.
Can't be bothered to find the link, but there was the idiotic claim on here that the Big 5/6/7 prog bands were not part of a genre like reggae was. It was, and part of that was members of ELP, Yes and King Crimson were all part of the same circle. Emerson rented a room to Robert Fripp (I think), Steve Howe had auditioned for The Nice (and stayed all of one day before leaving to work on Bodast, I believe), Bill Bruford and Steve Hackett were totally blown away by seeing the original King Crimson (Emerson didn't like them except for the Cat Food singleI guess there's more stories like this to be heard as most artists/bands would have mixed the same circles.) and so on.
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The first Crimson gig in London was a bit like a prog bomb exploding. At least a couple Yes members were at that gig, including Peter Banks, and I recall reading that they realized afterward that they needed to up their game considerably from what they'd been doing before.Can't be bothered to find the link, but there was the idiotic claim on here that the Big 5/6/7 prog bands were not part of a genre like reggae was. It was, and part of that was members of ELP, Yes and King Crimson were all part of the same circle. Emerson rented a room to Robert Fripp (I think), Steve Howe had auditioned for The Nice (and stayed all of one day before leaving to work on Bodast, I believe), Bill Bruford and Steve Hackett were totally blown away by seeing the original King Crimson (Emerson didn't like them except for the Cat Food single
There was definitely a prog "scene" in the sense of a bunch of musicians floating around London at the same with big ideas, but they've also said that they considered each other as very different bands. Certainly, Genesis, Yes and Crimson were mining different territory conceptually.
Doesn't every band say that, no matter what the genre is?but they've also said that they considered each other as very different bands
A very good case could be made that the Genesis of Nursery Cryme were more than a little influenced musically by King Crimson. If by "conceptually" you mean their look on stage and the album covers, while no one else was using costumes like Gabriel except maybe Ian Anderson's "Aqualung tramp", what Wimborne-born guitarist does this guy remind you of?Certainly, Genesis, Yes and Crimson were mining different territory conceptually
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Genesis and Van Der Graaf Generator had Paul Whitehead do some of their album covers, Gentle Giant used Roger Dean for the British cover of Octopus. Yes and King Crimson in the Sinfield days shared an abstract, self-consciously poetic approach to lyrics is another example. They used some of the same studios (ELP, Yes and Gentle Giant at Advision, Genesis and VDGG at Trident), some of the same producers (Eddie Offord, John Anthony), management (ELP until ca. 1972 & King Crimson with EG, Genesis and VDGG with Tony Stratton-Smith) and so on and so forth.
* Sure, they caved and used one on a few dates of the 1973 European tour, but still.
Last edited by Jeremy Bender; 07-06-2015 at 03:15 PM.
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I've always thought that Lake's classical bit on the live "The Sage" was pretty darn impressive.
I remember back in the 70s when the DVD now known as "Pictures at an Exhibition" was the film called "Rock and Roll Your Eyes." We used to see it at the Midnight Movies. The only difference from the version on DVD, iirc, is that the encore of "Nutrocker" is missing from the DVD.
High Vibration Go On - R.I.P. Chris Squire
Ah, Rock 'n Roll Your Eyes!
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Here in Los Angeles, during my high school days around 1977-78, a theater in Canoga Park would show rock 'n roll films on Friday nights. Mostly Woodstock, The Song Remains The Same and Ladies & Gentlemen: The Rolling Stones, but there was one double bill of the ELP movie and Yessongs. They also showed this once in a while:
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There was rumors that they were going to show the never-seen-before Rolling Stones documentary about their 1972 tour called Cocksucker Blues, but alas, it didn't happen. I saw it years later, it's kinda boring, lots of hanging out in airplanes and hotel rooms, not a lot of concert footage.
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Cool poster! I remember going to see Rock & Roll Your Eyes along with various rock films...Yessongs, Pink Floyd live at Pompeii, The Song Remains the Same, Welcome to my Nightmare, Rust Never Sleeps. Sometimes there'd be a throwback like the Monterrey Pop or Woodstock films.
Good times at the midnight movies!
High Vibration Go On - R.I.P. Chris Squire
I remember that one making the rounds in the Orange Cty midnight movie circuit during the late 70s as well. Does anyone also remember one from a concert by a wierd Deep Purple spin off? It might have been Paice Ashton Lord.
I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.
D'oh, how could I forget that one, that was very popular. Great version of Echoes too. A friend and I still use the Roger quote "It was a bad cut!", Roger was referring to a bad song that didn't make an album, I think.Pink Floyd live at Pompeii
Yep, that got some plays, not a fan of "studio musician"-era Alice but a good filmWelcome to my Nightmare
Released after the movie theater that showed all these movies closed, it'd have been played constantly. Like a Hurricane is amazing.Rust Never Sleeps
Saw that once on screen, great movie, The Who and Jimi Hendrix kick ass, but Otis Redding is on fire too.Sometimes there'd be a throwback like the Monterey Pop
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I saw 2 shows back to back from Greg's Songs Of A Lifetime tour. It was really entertaining both nights in Clearwater, FL. The setlist was unique..he did some interesting covers and the Q & As were hysterical. He really knows how to tell a good story. The one about ELP seeing an Elvis Presley show in Vegas was funny.
I have that poster. Unfortunately, one of the previous owners let it get slightly water damaged.
Sometime, I'll get it restored.
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