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Thread: Return To Forever - Live : The Complete Concert

  1. #1

    Return To Forever - Live : The Complete Concert

    I sort ignored post Romantic Warrior albums
    My pal Yehuda turned my attention to this expansive 3 cd live set
    Curious to hear your thoughts about this one

  2. #2
    Definitely not my favourite RTF... This is the 'final' line-up (promoting the "Musicmagic" album) from 1977 which no longer had a guitarist, but was expanded to include horns, plus Joe Farrell from the original 1972 line-up and, for fans of late-period Mahavishnu, Corea's wife Gayle Moran on vocals and extra keys... Some terminally cheesy singing from Clarke at various points. All great players, but not the RTF history will remember, imho.
    Last edited by calyx; 06-15-2015 at 08:24 PM.
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  3. #3
    is that Clarke doing the male vocals ?
    Its amazing to realize this
    On one hand he is truly at the top of his game here his bass performances here are pretty amazing
    The vocals are very poor - its obvious he is trying to sing parts that are beyond his range so both out of tune and very shaky - what were they thinking ?

  4. #4

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    is that Clarke doing the male vocals ?
    Yep.

  6. #6
    Funny, I have a 2 CD set, which also says 'The complete concert', though 3 songs are edited versions, according to the cover. I wonder how long the unedited version of Musicmagic is. I still wish Gayle Moran would have limited herself to playing keyboards.

  7. #7
    Don't like Musicmagic much,and definitely not the vocals, but the lion's share of the live album is instrumental, and in my opinion kicks serious ass. Joe Farrell is on fire as is Corea.

    I'd recommend the full version in the Complete Columbia Albums Collection that came out a couple years ago with Romantic Warrior, Musicmagic and the complete Live.

    Worth the price of admission. For me, it was, despite the vocals, a welcome change from the Di Meola era RTF, which I liked but because I'm more a Bill Connors fan, never loved with Di Meola (though Romantic Warrior is definitely the best Di Meola era album, I think).
    Last edited by jkelman; 06-16-2015 at 11:12 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    Funny, I have a 2 CD set, which also says 'The complete concert', though 3 songs are edited versions, according to the cover. I wonder how long the unedited version of Musicmagic is..
    The complete Musicmagic is 27:26 and I don't believe that was edited. The edited tracks are The Musician (full version is 14:52) and So Long Mickey Mouse (full version is 10:20). There was also a spoken intro called "Intermission" that was cut.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bRETT View Post
    The complete Musicmagic is 27:26 and I don't believe that was edited. The edited tracks are The Musician (full version is 14:52) and So Long Mickey Mouse (full version is 10:20). There was also a spoken intro called "Intermission" that was cut.
    On the CD the tracks 'The musician', 'So long Mickey Mouse' and 'Musicmagic' are marked as edited. Judging from the times you mention only 'The musician' (7:03) and 'So long Mickey Mouse' (6.42) are edited.

  10. #10
    This was the first RTF I ever heard...and caused me to delay discovering all of the other, earlier great albums by about a decade! That first vocal sung jointly by Stanley and Gayle is pretty terrifying...and was hard for me to look beyond at the time. And as a result sold the triple CD soon after

  11. #11
    Member Phlakaton's Avatar
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    Something about that album rubs me the wrong way - is it dipping it's toes into contemporary land already? Too "slick?" Something grimy got lost at this stage.

  12. #12
    Member adap2it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    I sort ignored post Romantic Warrior albums
    My pal Yehuda turned my attention to this expansive 3 cd live set
    Curious to hear your thoughts about this one
    So how is the Kotton man?
    Dave Sr.

    I prefer Nature to Human Nature

  13. #13
    I like this music better on the studio Musicmagic album better than the live versions. There's some great playing on the live album (how could there not be?), but it never quite takes off the way I'd like.

    What I'd really like is an archival release from the 1983 RTF reunion tour with Al D. and Lenny White. They played a whole bunch of new, unrecorded music...one of the songs later ended up on Al's Kiss My Axe album, but that's all I know of.

  14. #14
    Kotton man is well he was here the other day and instead of lightening to some serious stuff we found ourselves marveling along with my kids on Disney's Snow White Bluray

    Regarding Stanley's vocals can't see why they didn't overdub new vocals later
    The trombonist is terrific some really nice impressive solos
    Good drummer Gerry Brown he does a good job
    Chick is great but tends to overdo and self indulge on that minimoog vobrato sound
    judging the sound of the albums Chick was releasing at that time I expected this to sound more tonally balanced and pleasing

  15. #15
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    RTF IV was much better than RTF III

    of course RTF I and II are both great, especially II for me, being the Rock guy I am
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  16. #16
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by profusion View Post
    What I'd really like is an archival release from the 1983 RTF reunion tour with Al D. and Lenny White. They played a whole bunch of new, unrecorded music...
    those were great new pieces which never saw any official release.
    I have a boot from back then but it's prolly on Dime now... I need to check
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  17. #17
    I have several boots from the 1983 tour... Apart from the introductory instrumental, I don't see any new music !
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
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    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
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  18. #18
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    I tend to agree that Musicmagic and Live were signaling the coming of "Smooth Jazz" even though Bob James seemed to single handedly invent the stuff years earlier. Just not my cuppa tea. I gave up on RTF after RW as many of you did also from what I have read.

  19. #19
    It was my first RTF CD and I like most of it. I'm playing the first CD right now. I could do without the vocals and 'So long Mickey Mouse' is to smooth for my tastes and there might be more I'm not so fond of. But I'm not really into jazz-rock, with some exeptions. The only other RTF CD I own is Romantic warrior. I haven't explored beyond that.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    Funny, I have a 2 CD set, which also says 'The complete concert', though 3 songs are edited versions, according to the cover. I wonder how long the unedited version of Musicmagic is. I still wish Gayle Moran would have limited herself to playing keyboards.
    Musicmagic is actually only 30 seconds shorter, the biggest edit is in the Musician (about 7 minutes shorter), and So long MM (about 4 minutes shorter) and Corea's intro of the musicians is missing (about 4 minutes) otherwise nearly the same.
    Dieter Moebius : "Art people like things they don’t understand!"

  21. #21
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    I have several boots from the 1983 tour... Apart from the introductory instrumental, I don't see any new music !
    The first 3 pieces they performed at the Palladium in NY were all new for that reunion tour
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    The first 3 pieces they performed at the Palladium in NY were all new for that reunion tour
    Yes. The titles were: 1. The Overture 2. Caprice 3. The Phantom

    The Phantom was even 'epic' length.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.Eric View Post
    Yes. The titles were: 1. The Overture 2. Caprice 3. The Phantom

    The Phantom was even 'epic' length.
    Yes, but I think those titles were given to them later as they appeared on albums after 1983.
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  24. #24
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    RTF lost me after No Mystery.
    And I dont like all the tracks.
    The 4 previous albums are all good, and Light as a Feather, Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy and Where Have I Known You Before are excellent, stunning & innovative.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by D.Eric View Post
    The titles were: 1. The Overture 2. Caprice 3. The Phantom

    The Phantom was even 'epic' length.
    Thanks for the info. I thought I remembered the setlist was 95% pure "nostalgia" but was evidently wrong. Need to re-visit those '83 boots...
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
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    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
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